200 Muslim students exempted from sex education in Québec

[QuebecOverCanada]

In Gatineau, Québec, many Muslim parents tried to find a breach in the system so their children remains into the grips of their religious zeal, and made complaints claiming that their children would be traumatized and damaged by Sexual Education classes and claimed religious freedom over their children education and future well being.

Being in Canada, the Muslim parents won and about 200 Muslim Children in Gatineau will be exempt of any sexual education.

Those who need these classes the most are the ones who won't receive them. It's very bad for these children and very bad for their parents too, as they are seen as what they are; zealots.

[Goddess]

It's not just Muslims fighting sex ed in schools, there are some Christian groups also.  Jewish and Sikh groups also join with Muslims in these protests.  But Muslims are leading the charge in country after country to have sex ed banned in schools, for example in Britain, where 400-800 children are being pulled out of schools at a time to protest.  Sadly it's these kids from religiously fundamentalist homes that need it the most.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/muslim-community-taking-the-lead-in-latest-round-of-ontario-sex-education-protests

These parents will say things like:  the topic is "confusing" for children, the material "inappropriate" and the children "too young" for it.  but it's really about homophobia and wanting to keep their children ignorant and in the grip of fundamentalist religion.  Of course, they can't say that so "confusing" and "inappropriate" are the words that give their prejudices respectability.  And to scare other parents into believing that their children are being corrupted by explicit material. 

The same as any other subject in school, sex ed is about a broad range of health and personal wellbeing topics.  No one is showing pornos to 5 year olds.

These parents are denying their children knowledge and blocking access to vital information.  They are instilling values in their children that sex is dirty and taboo and that people who engage in certain kinds of sex are "bad". When you deny this education, you set your children up for exploitation - which I guess is what these parents really want - to exploit their own children for religious purposes.  Predators rely on children that are too ignorant or frightened to tell on them.

Some kids of these bigoted parents will be/are LGBQ+ and they need access to information and a safe space to be themselves.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/backlash-against-sex-education-uk-will-ultimately-harm-children/

 

Here is an ex-Muslim woman who objected to Toronto's watering down of the sex ed curriculum:

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/the180/the-truth-about-gmos-accommodations-in-sex-ed-and-retiring-smokey-bear-1.3591155/former-muslim-objects-to-watered-down-sex-ed-at-toronto-school-1.3591261

Quote

 

Multiculturalism has come to mean that people will silently and politely accommodate all sorts of things, but that's really not what it should mean. Diversity is wonderful and we should embrace our differences, but making accommodations on our basic values goes too far. 

- Eiynah

Eiynah is a pseudonym. She has asked for anonymity because of the frequent threats she has received for her writing.

And in your experience when these parents say they will have these conversations - do they?

No - for the most part it's just a delaying tactic. This is my own community and I know exactly what it's like. It's not a gay-friendly environment. A lot of kids suffer because of that. A lot of kids are shamed because of that. Their existence is denied. When I wrote a children's book, My Chacha is Gay, a lot of people were happy at first to have it addressed from a Muslim point of view. But the outrage from parents caused schools to back down and away from the project. They said it was offensive to the culture and that gay people just don't exist.

So the argument made to you was the homosexuality doesn't exist in Islam?

Yes exactly.

These protesters insist they aren't homophobic. What do you make of that?

It's not true. They don't want to teach their children about equality for everyone and then insist they are not homophobic - it's a blatant lie. It's just phrased better to make it more palatable.

 

Although other small religious groups also protest, it really is Muslims leading the charge world-wide to keep sex ed out of schools:

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/09/07/sex-ed-guide-aims-to-help-muslim-parents-deal-with-controversial-new-curriculum.html

 

 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Goddess

[Argus]

2 hours ago, Goddess said:

It's not just Muslims fighting sex ed in schools, there are some Christian groups also. 

True. But nobody gives a damn what they want. Christians protest against sex-ed and progressive and liberal governments sneer in contempt.

Muslims protest and suddenly those governments are on their knees apologizing.

[Goddess]

2 minutes ago, Argus said:

True. But nobody gives a damn what they want. Christians protest against sex-ed and progressive and liberal governments sneer in contempt.

I only put that about the small weird Christian groups so head off the red herring argument that it's not just Muslims protesting it.  Technically that is true - but it really is Muslims in every country leading the fight against sex ed in school curriculums.

 

Quote

Muslims protest and suddenly those governments are on their knees apologizing.

We all see it.  This is why the "fear" that Muslims are dragging everyone back to the dark ages and changing our society for the worse is not a phobia - it's a legit fear.

There have been plenty of studies done about the benefits of having sex ed in school.  The debate on this is over.  But here we are debating it again.  The same as we're once again debating women's place in society, abortion, segregation of genders, etc.  Backwards, we're going backwards.

[WestCanMan]

8 hours ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

In Gatineau, Québec, many Muslim parents tried to find a breach in the system so their children remains into the grips of their religious zeal, and made complaints claiming that their children would be traumatized and damaged by Sexual Education classes and claimed religious freedom over their children education and future well being.

Being in Canada, the Muslim parents won and about 200 Muslim Children in Gatineau will be exempt of any sexual education.

Those who need these classes the most are the ones who won't receive them. It's very bad for these children and very bad for their parents too, as they are seen as what they are; zealots.

It's completely personal and if they don't want their children in the Sex Ed classes they shouldn't have to be in them. The notion that the school board has absolute control over your child's mind is scary.

[Moonlight Graham]

This is a tactic by these Muslim parents to control the sexuality of their children, especially their daughters.  If they don't know about sex, they will less likely want to have it, that's the thinking.

Different cultures like Muslim and different South Asian cultures still have arranged marriages and it happens in Canada all the time. 

[Goddess]

28 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

The notion that the school board has absolute control over your child's mind is scary.

Have you read the curriculum? It's pretty basic and information is given out in accord with age of the children.  It does speak about homosexuality as being normal, that is what these parents object to.

It's more scary to me that parents would deny their children information on sex because of stone age religious beliefs.  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

It's completely personal and if they don't want their children in the Sex Ed classes they shouldn't have to be in them. The notion that the school board has absolute control over your child's mind is scary.

Yeah, and they don't need to get them any stinkin' vaccines either!

[WestCanMan]

16 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Yeah, and they don't need to get them any stinkin' vaccines either!

That's not kosher. It's bad for everyone, not just their own kids.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

That's not kosher. It's bad for everyone, not just their own kids.

So is denying them a sex education.

[WestCanMan]

47 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

So is denying them a sex education.

It might be a big part of their culture to teach them that themselves. It's a big part of my culture to not have my son indoctrinated by the Greta Thunberg crowd. Sometimes there's no wiggle room.

[Goddess]

55 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

It might be a big part of their culture to teach them that themselves. 

Of course all parents teach sex ed to their children, in varying degrees.  And parents also can supplement the school board curriculum by discussing with their children and adding their personal beliefs, if they want.

For instance:  The curriculum speaks of same-sex families, simply noting that some children have 2 daddies or 2 mommies.  A parent would be free to tell their children that this is bad, homosexuals should be killed, etc, - whatever they want.  But at least the children would be getting some information that would be free of prejudices, hatred and religious nonsense.

In the article I linked, a former Muslim woman who doesn't agree with Muslims yanking their kids out of sex ed said this about your statement above:

23 hours ago, Goddess said:

And in your experience when these parents say they will have these conversations - do they?

No - for the most part it's just a delaying tactic. This is my own community and I know exactly what it's like. It's not a gay-friendly environment. A lot of kids suffer because of that. A lot of kids are shamed because of that. Their existence is denied. When I wrote a children's book, My Chacha is Gay, a lot of people were happy at first to have it addressed from a Muslim point of view. But the outrage from parents caused schools to back down and away from the project. They said it was offensive to the culture and that gay people just don't exist.

This affects society - even if some do not wish to admit it.  These are the girls who will grow up thinking there are no boundaries and that they have no control over their own sex lives - they will be ripe for child marriage, forced hijabs & burkas, rape and molestation, dissuaded away from higher education, told their place in society is to be a breeder, etc.  These are the boys who will grow up believing women are meant to be subjugated, can be raped and abused whenever they desire and believing that Allah's law is above the laws of the land - will discriminate against homosexuals at best and at worst - will beat and kill them.

We've come too far to go back to this kind of brutal culture, even in the name of diversity and tolerance.  There are just somethings we should not be tolerating.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Goddess

[Yzermandius19]

If parents don't want the state educating their kids about sex, there is nothing wrong with that. The statistics on all the things people think sex education helps to prevent have been getting worse, not better since sex ed was introduced in public schools, it's simply not effective, the theory doesn't work in practice. Early pregnancy is up, STD's are up, One Size Fits All, Public School Sex Ed curricula has not been helping.

Turns out public schools aren't the best place to be educated about sex, and some parents pawning off their responsibility on the state to educate their kids about sex isn't helping, who knew?

Public schools are in fact the worst way to do so. As usual the left and their clinging to public schools as the best solution for educating the kids about everything leads to a road to hell is paved with good intentions scenario.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

If parents don't want the state educating their kids about sex, there is nothing wrong with that. The statistics on all the things people think sex education helps to prevent have been getting worse, not better since sex ed was introduced in public schools, it's simply not effective, the theory doesn't work in practice. Early pregnancy is up, STD's are up, One Size Fits All, Public School Sex Ed curricula has not been helping.

Turns out public schools aren't the best place to be educated about sex, and some parents pawning off their responsibility on the state to educate their kids about sex isn't helping, who knew?

Public schools are in fact the worst way to do so. As usual the left and their clinging to public schools as the best solution for educating the kids about everything leads to a road to hell is paved with good intentions scenario.

Yeah, nothing will ever replace the older kid next door for a decent sex education...

[Yzermandius19]

7 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Yeah, nothing will ever replace the older kid next door for a decent sex education...

Not what I said, but notice how you go right to a strawman with no other argument at all. Cognitive dissonance on full display.

Obviously there are many other ways to get educated about sex than having the government provide it, and certainly the only way isn't by simply limiting your inquiries to anecdotal evidence of people you know. The only way for public schools to seem like they are doing a good job of providing sex education is to compare them to those who are even worse at it as if those are the only alternatives.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Not what I said, but notice how you go right to a strawman with no other argument at all. Cognitive dissonance on full display.

Obviously there are many other ways to get educated about sex than having the government provide it, and certainly the only way isn't by simply limiting your inquiries to anecdotal evidence of people you know.

It's called arguing.  You need to be a bit less sensitive.

Obviously, given the importance of sex in one's life, the best place to be educated about it is where one is educated.  I don't care if it's the kid next door or the parents, one is still liable to get a mind full of religious nonsense and bigotry.  Actually, thinking on, the kid next door might be better than the parents.

[DogOnPorch]

11 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Not what I said, but notice how you go right to a strawman with no other argument at all. Cognitive dissonance on full display.

Obviously there are many other ways to get educated about sex than having the government provide it, and certainly the only way isn't by simply limiting your inquiries to anecdotal evidence of people you know. The only way for public schools to seem like they are doing a good job of providing sex education is to compare them to those who are even worse at it as if those are the only alternatives.

Sex education in the 1960s-70s...

Edited November 6, 2019 by DogOnPorch

[Yzermandius19]

3 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

It's called arguing.  You need to be a bit less sensitive.

Obviously, given the importance of sex in one's life, the best place to be educated about it is where one is educated.  I don't care if it's the kid next door or the parents, one is still liable to get a mind full of religious nonsense and bigotry.  Actually, thinking on, the kid next door might be better than the parents.

Yeah and turns out public schools aren't good at educating kids in general, not just about sex. Who knew?

Much better to educate kids elsewhere, public schools indoctrinate kids too, it ain't just religions who do that.

Resorting to strawman as an argument, is arguing poorly. 

Edited November 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[DogOnPorch]

Oh...let's not forget...

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Yeah and turns out public schools aren't good at educating kids in general, not just about sex. Who knew?

Resorting to strawman as an argument, is arguing poorly.

I wouldn't know.  If you need it, you can have it.

If you want that to be me using a strawman, instead of just making fun of you, (not in a malicious way, of course) fill your boots.

As for schools, some are good, and some are bad.  What's one to do?  Still better than leaving it to chance, Jesus and Allah.

Edited November 6, 2019 by bcsapper

[Yzermandius19]

5 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I wouldn't know.  If you need it, you can have it.

If you want that to be me using a strawman, instead of just making fun of you, (not in a malicious way, of course) fill your boots.

As for schools, some are good, and some are bad.  What's one to do?  Still better than leaving it to chance, Jesus and Allah.

Making fun of me by misstating my argument is not a rebuttal, it's a strawman. No one said leave it to chance, public schools are not the best place or the only place to become educated about sex.

What's one to do? Not send their kids to bad schools and then think they are being well educated about sex because you did so.

[Guest]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

Making fun of me by misstating my argument is not a rebuttal, it's a strawman. No one said leave it to chance, public schools are not the best place or the only place to become educated about sex.

What's one to do? Not send their kids to bad schools and then think they are being well educated about sex because you did so.

I was about to change that.  "Making fun of you" is harsh, and not what I meant to say.  I'm sorry.

I was making fun of the argument that sex education ought to be left up to chance.  And by chance I mean anything other than a school curriculum.  Because chance is exactly what it will be.  And that's concrete, not straw.

[Yzermandius19]

6 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I was making fun of the argument that sex education ought to be left up to chance.  And by chance I mean anything other than a school curriculum.  Because chance is exactly what it will be.  And that's concrete, not straw.

Never made that argument. Anything other than school curriculum is not leaving it "up to chance", that is misrepresenting an argument with a stupid one to make yourself feel smarter by giving yourself an easy to clear hurdle.

So like I said, strawman. Arguing with you is like talking to a wall covered in logical fallacies, good day.

Anyone who knows how to argue in good faith and disagrees with me, go ahead, but clearly bcsapper isn't going to be that person.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Never made that argument. Anything other than school curriculum is not leaving it "up to chance", that is misrepresenting an argument with a stupid one to make yourself feel smarter by giving yourself an easy to clear hurdle.

So like I said, strawman. Arguing with you is like talking to a wall covered in logical fallacies, good day.

Anyone who knows how to argue in good faith and disagrees with me, go ahead, but clearly bcsapper isn't going to be that person.

You haven't actually made any suggestions other than school which would not be called chance.  Maybe I missed them.

 

[Argus]

12 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

If parents don't want the state educating their kids about sex, there is nothing wrong with that. The statistics on all the things people think sex education helps to prevent have been getting worse, not better since sex ed was introduced in public schools, it's simply not effective, the theory doesn't work in practice. Early pregnancy is up, STD's are up, One Size Fits All, Public School Sex Ed curricula has not been helping.

Yeah, this is crap. Stuff is up because of society. However, if you compare jurisdictions with sex-ed to those without, the ones without all have higher STDs, higher teen pregnancies, higher abortion rates, etc.

I suppose we could do like the Muslims do and not let any unmarried girl leave the house without a chaperone but that seems unlikely.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Argus