Immigrants cost Canada $30 billion per year

[Argus]

48 minutes ago, dialamah said:

This news story seems appropriate to this thread.  It's about Brooks, AB and the meat packing industry as a whole, who are having difficulty obtaining workers for the meat-packing plant.  For them, immigration will solve that problem.

This problem is supposed to be solved by increasing wages.

[dialamah]

10 minutes ago, Argus said:

This problem is supposed to be solved by increasing wages.

Wages for meatpacking jobs in Canada average $16 to $17 per hour.  I'm all for raising wages, but dread the conservative whine about how people aren't entitled to such high wages because people in other countries don't make that much.  Of course, raising the wage would result in fewer people buying as much meat, good for the climate and no meat tax required.

But if they raised wages, corporate profit would drop, shareholder earnings would drop, so no increases.  Capitalism it's finest!  

Packers have another record year.

Have to choose to support either immigration or capitalism, I guess.  Can't do both.

 

[Argus]

48 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Wages for meatpacking jobs in Canada average $16 to $17 per hour.  I'm all for raising wages, but dread the conservative whine about how people aren't entitled to such high wages because people in other countries don't make that much. 

No you don't because that doesn't happen. The only time conservatives complain about high wages are when government mandates them against the needs of the market, or when government grants them to their own public servants.

 

[Argus]

This was reprinted the other day and makes for an interesting read. It's from an Ojibwa man who says we should stop importing immigrants and granting them so much help and instead turn to helping the indigenous people. That includes removing them from reserves with no economic reason to exist.

There are plenty of good reasons to oppose immigration into Canada. Presumably a man of the Left, Environmentalist David Suzuki opposes immigration: “Canada is full! Although it’s the second largest country in the world,” he says, “our useful area has been reduced. Our immigration policy is disgusting: We plunder southern countries by depriving them of future leaders, and we want to increase our population to support economic growth. It’s crazy!”

Canada has a burgeoning underclass of multigenerational welfare recipients, many but by no means all of them Indians and Inuit. The Fraser Institute says there’s an intensifying jobs shortage, and that recent immigrants receive tens of billions of dollars more in benefits than they pay in taxes.  The root of this challenge, then, is not just that so many of the marginalized seem to be unemployed and unemployable. It’s that they’re unequipped for participation in the modern economy

There’s a myth promulgated by prominent Aboriginals like Senator Murray Sinclair. It’s that their people must be confined forever into ghettoes, and ideally ones located in the wilderness. But the Senator, for example, never suggests that Indians and Inuit should have the opportunities he had when growing up in the real-world city of Selkirk, Manitoba. For all his blather about residential schools, some of which were admittedly horrendous, why doesn’t he look forward instead of backwards?

An Ojibwa grandmother told me, “We could have gotten over the residential schools trauma years ago if we’d had support systems that worked.” Another Ojibwa grandmother recently said to me. “I simply don’t care about our land. It doesn’t do a damned thing for us any more.’

I expect Mr. Suzuki would agree with me when I say there are no jobs in Canada for which we couldn’t prepare our own people.

My problem is that while we extend a red carpet to hundreds of thousands of immigrants, there are hundreds of thousands of our own who are permanently excluded from the mainstream society.

https://fcpp.org/2019/09/26/you-dont-have-to-be-fascist-to-oppose-immigration/

[scribblet]

It doesn't say who the author is, or did I miss it?    OK, it's Colin Alexander, is he Ojibwa or Inuit ?   Found an article by him on the cost of refugees...

https://canadafreepress.com/article/what-refugees-cost-for-a-family-of-five-but-what-about-our-own-people And tens of thousands of Aboriginal children live in conditions like what refugees are leaving, in remote settlements under boil-water advisory.

 

This is what happens when illegal migrants invade a country creating overcrowded conditions that the host country cannot handle, people have died.   

https://apnews.com/92a15950e8f948ef99ebdbcb5df2f966

ATHENS, Greece (AP) — Migrants protesting at an overcrowded camp on the Greek island of Lesbos set fires and clashed with police Sunday, killing at least one person, authorities said.

A burned body was brought to a local hospital and there is information about an unconfirmed second death, police said. The protesters were demanding to be transferred to the Greek mainland.

“The situation is tense,” Lesbos mayor Stratis Kytelis told The Associated Press earlier. “There is information about a dead mother and her child. We haven’t been able to confirm that yet.”

UNHCR Greece later tweeted that “we learned with deep sadness that the lives of a woman and a child were lost in a fire on (Lesbos) today.”

Edited October 1, 2019 by scribblet

[jacee]

On 9/30/2019 at 10:07 PM, scribblet said:

It doesn't say who the author is, or did I miss it?    OK, it's Colin Alexander, is he Ojibwa or Inuit ?   Found an article by him on the cost of refugees...

https://canadafreepress.com/article/what-refugees-cost-for-a-family-of-five-but-what-about-our-own-people And tens of thousands of Aboriginal children live in conditions like what refugees are leaving, in remote settlements under boil-water advisory.

 

This is what happens when illegal migrants invade a country creating overcrowded conditions that the host country cannot handle, people have died.   

https://apnews.com/92a15950e8f948ef99ebdbcb5df2f966

ATHENS, Greece (AP) — Migrants protesting at an overcrowded camp on the Greek island of Lesbos set fires and clashed with police Sunday, killing at least one person, authorities said.

A burned body was brought to a local hospital and there is information about an unconfirmed second death, police said. The protesters were demanding to be transferred to the Greek mainland.

“The situation is tense,” Lesbos mayor Stratis Kytelis told The Associated Press earlier. “There is information about a dead mother and her child. We haven’t been able to confirm that yet.”

UNHCR Greece later tweeted that “we learned with deep sadness that the lives of a woman and a child were lost in a fire on (Lesbos) today.”

Oh ffs. Nobody's invading us.

Get a grip.

And yes, we should be ashamed, and correct the substandard living conditions in Indigenous communities. 

[Dougie93]

7 minutes ago, jacee said:

correct the substandard living conditions in Indigenous communities. 

The Indian Act is apartheid, the ghettoized Bantustans are baked into the cake,  you can't get what you want while Apartheid is very deliberately still in effect.

[Zeitgeist]

No political party supports the Indian Act.  Support for the Indian Act comes from vested interests within Indigenous communities.  Another dirty secret is that residential schools were not some great targeting of Indigenous in an intentionally negative way.  All schools were run by a mix of religious denominations and state funding.  Education was valued, even if today our idea of quality education has changed.  Many students were abused in schools, Indigenous and non-Indigenous.  

Even today, if you come from a small distant community, you will have to move far from home to attend high school.  Now there are Indigenous run high schools for such students, and guess what?   There are still suicides and there is still substance abuse at such schools.  It’s a contentious discussion because despite status Indigenous not having to pay taxes and having access to free higher education, there are indeed reserves and lands where there are water advisories and poor infrastructure, but at least some of this problem relates to the fact that these communities didn’t pay for much of what they have.  It was provided by the state in what many would call unsustainable communities.  

Most people would move away from such places, but those who cling to the Indian Act or the idea that protecting the location of a community trumps all economic considerations perpetuate this bad situation.  This is the problem with throwing more money at it.  Sir John A. Macdonald is called a genocidal racist for saying that the government shouldn’t feed Indigenous people, but it’s a moral hazard for any government to create such dependency by feeding or housing people.  It’s why nobody wants to live near public housing projects in places like Jane and Finch in Toronto.  Government has become too interventionist and has created additional problems.  

Yet some political parties want more intervention.  We see this in identity politics. There are more women than men in higher education institutions, yet affirmative action continues to emphasize recruiting more women than men.  The state also has to stop using tax dollars and public policy to force feed a narrative that minorities and people with multiple minority identities (intersectionalities) require special treatment, extra funding, and additional job opportunities.  These kinds of initiatives are unfair, unaffordable, and sow seeds of social discord.  

It relates to immigration insofar as charity starts at home.  If we cannot afford to address our problems at home, why unnecessarily import new ones?  I know so many well qualified Canadians who can’t find work.  We don’t have a skills shortage as much as we have an unwillingness to trust the workforce that we already have.  Some immigration is necessary to fill skills gaps and meet labour market needs, but what is happening now with immigration is far outside those lines.  Many immigrants are arriving with little English, straining public services, heightening demand for housing in cities that is already unaffordable, and bringing worldviews that are very outside of mainstream Canada.  

Government needs to get back to basics.  

Edited October 6, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[Zeitgeist]

I want to reaffirm the importance of equality.  MLK had it right: no discrimination based on colour, race, religion, or creed.  Keep it simple.  No special privileges for any groups.  No Bill 21.  No Indian Act. No endlessly debatable and questionable funding for equity.  Everyone equal under the law. Everyone with access to healthcare and a strong education.  Support for the disabled and vulnerable people such as poor elderly and children. Beyond that it’s whatever individuals can achieve.  Legislation that is an attempt to engineer behaviour much beyond that should always be suspect.  

Edited October 7, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

18 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I want to reaffirm the importance of equality.  MLK had it right: no discrimination based on colour, race, religion, or creed.  Keep it simple.  No special privileges for any groups....

 

Sorry, but your MLK perspective and simplicity are way out of date and touch with today's social agenda, mostly because of LGBTQ2SWXYZ rights, which King did not advocate for as a man of his time.  Even Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms purposely excluded sexual orientation rights as a matter of political expediency.

It is not simple, and more immigrants from other cultures/religions make it even less so.

[Zeitgeist]

Sexual orientation or any other characteristic doesn’t warrant special treatment.  You don’t get additional points for more intersectionalities.  The point is that no one gets mistreated on the basis of gender, sexual orientation, religion, colour, etc.   That’s as much as any free society can offer. 

[bush_cheney2004]

14 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Sexual orientation or any other characteristic doesn’t warrant special treatment.  You don’t get additional points for more intersectionalities.  The point is that no one gets mistreated on the basis of gender, sexual orientation, religion, colour, etc.   That’s as much as any free society can offer. 

 

But it does matter a great deal to many people fighting that fight, and you can add immigrant and refugee status to the already long list.

A good argument can be made that refugees in Canada are afforded more support than some Canadian citizens.

[Zeitgeist]

6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

But it does matter a great deal to many people fighting that fight, and you can add immigrant and refugee status to the already long list.

A good argument can be made that refugees in Canada are afforded more support than some Canadian citizens.

Well it is arguable for sure.  Getting $30000 from the government plus an all access pass to health care, education, and all the services Canadians enjoy without having paid a penny in taxes towards those services is a tremendous gift from the Canadian people that I’m not so sure many Canadians will continue to support, not when the government has to pay out $40000 per residential school student as set by the courts.  These are the forces the Liberals have unleashed.  As long as most people are employed and feel that their living standards are improving, perhaps these costs will be ignored by the public, as the costs are kicked down the road in the form of debt.  There will be a reckoning if the economy tanks.  Basically the Liberals will overspend throughout their mandate, handling out freebies at the people’s expense.  

[Yzermandius19]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

Sexual orientation or any other characteristic doesn’t warrant special treatment.  You don’t get additional points for more intersectionalities.  The point is that no one gets mistreated on the basis of gender, sexual orientation, religion, colour, etc.   That’s as much as any free society can offer. 

So you're against Affirmative Action?

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Yzermandius19 said:

So you're against Affirmative Action?

There was a time when having some form of that was probably warranted, but even then it was controversial because it was a form of race or gender-based favouritism used to level the playing field.  The bottom line is that no one’s resume should ever be set aside either negatively or positively based on race or ethnicity.  Evaluators shouldn’t even see names on resumes or student exams.  Evaluate the content without reference to gender or race.  That’s as fair as can be.  If we offer preference based on race, even to try to bring up the diversity, we’re in dangerous territory.  How much preference should one individual have over another?  How black are you?  How gay are you?   It creates a competition for victimhood.  Stick with equal pay for work of equal value, equality before the law, and skills-based hiring.  Keep identity politics out of HR.  

[Yzermandius19]

Against affirmative action, I suppose even a broken clock is right twice a day, and for once Zeitgeist is actually right.

[Rue]

Great posts Z.

[jacee]

 

On 10/6/2019 at 8:43 PM, Zeitgeist said:

I want to reaffirm the importance of equality.  MLK had it right: no discrimination based on colour, race, religion, or creed.  Keep it simple.  No special privileges for any groups.  No Bill 21.  No Indian Act. No endlessly debatable and questionable funding for equity.  Everyone equal under the law. Everyone with access to healthcare and a strong education.  Support for the disabled and vulnerable people such as poor elderly and children. Beyond that it’s whatever individuals can achieve.  Legislation that is an attempt to engineer behaviour much beyond that should always be suspect.  

The same treatment for all always seems the simplest to simple minds that can't comprehend the complexities of real life. 

But in reality, racism, misogyny, homophobia and other forms of personal and systemic discrimination and bigotry do exist, and do result in unequal treatment of some people. It is not "special privileges" to provide laws and means to try to compensate for society's discrimination and mistreatment of some groups of people. 

Also, in Canada we have, and we will continue to have, 3 sets of laws - Aboriginal Law, French Civil Code, and British Common Law - because we have 3 founding peoples. 

That won't change. 

Your nonsense proposals may trick some uneducated and less intelligent  people, and may appeal to ill-intentioned far-right bigots and white supremacist propagandists, but your proposals are just nasty  nonsense, nonetheless. 

You disrespect Canada's legal reality, disrespect Canada itself. 

Love it or leave it! 

Edited October 8, 2019 by jacee

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, jacee said:

 

The same treatment for all always seems the simplest to simple minds that can't comprehend the complexities of real life. 

But in reality, racism, misogyny, homophobia and other forms of personal and systemic bigotry do exist, and do result in unequal treatment of some people. It is not "special privileges" to provide laws and means to try to compensate for society's bigoted mistreatment of some groups of people. 

Also, in Canada we have, and we will continue to have, 3 sets of laws - Aboriginal Law, French Civil Code, and British Common Law - because we have 3 founding peoples. 

That won't change.

Your nonsense proposals may fool uneducated, less intelligent  people, and may appeal to ill-intentioned far-right bigots and white supremacist propagandists, but your proposals are just nonsense, nonetheless. 

You disrespect Canada's legal reality, disrespect Canada itself. 

Love it or leave it! 

That’s probably your weakest, most racist post.  Are you saying that Indigenous people or homosexuals are mentally or physically defective and can’t compete in the marketplace of business and ideas?  Let me guess, you also think that unsustainable impoverished communities should be preserved by the state like artifacts in museums, so you can tell yourself how you saved and preserved them like Pygmies in National Geographic or endangered animals in a zoo.

It’s good to be culturally sensitive, which is why I find your post offensive.  You want to strip away personal responsibility and accountability because you don’t really believe that these groups can handle it.  Criminal law shouldn’t apply to Indigenous because?   Indigenous shouldn’t have to work and pay taxes because?  The answer is that you think that they’re incapable of managing with the same rules as everyone else.  You think they need to be taken care of.  That’s the heart of systemic racism.  

Edited October 8, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, jacee said:

Love it or leave it! 

I'll come and go as I please.  Not a republic.  You ain't the boss o' me.

[Yzermandius19]

1 hour ago, jacee said:

Love it or leave it! 

You can't make me leave Cantifa, I ain't scared of you and your counter-productive band of soyboys who are too scared to even show their faces. Calling old lady's Nazi's and shoving little Asian girls doesn't make you tough, nor does it give you any moral high ground because you see White Supremacists under every rock.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

7 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

You can't make me leave . . .

Ric-A-Dam-Doo.  Victoria Patricia.

 

[jacee]

44 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

That’s probably your weakest, most racist post.  Are you saying that Indigenous people or homosexuals are mentally or physically defective and can’t compete in the marketplace of business and ideas?  Let me guess, you also think that unsustainable impoverished communities should be preserved by the state like artifacts in museums, so you can tell yourself how you saved and preserved them like Pygmies in National Geographic or endangered animals in a zoo.

Well, you're certainly saying ridiculous things now.

I guess that kind of extremist  illogic flies in your social milieu? Lol 

I guess we can be grateful that you don't aspire to politics. 

I heard that pathetic loser bigot Maxime Bernier say some pretty ignorant things last night, but I don't think even he would publicly  stoop as low as you have ... though his violent white supremacist thug followers might.  

Edited October 8, 2019 by jacee

[Yzermandius19]

Cantifa are simply projecting their own racism on everyone else and LARPing like they are the real heroes for fighting imaginary racists. These imaginary racists who are basically anyone who disagrees with their far left bullsh*t.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[jacee]

13 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

You can't make me leave Cantifa, I ain't scared of you and your counter-productive band of soyboys who are too scared to even show their faces. Calling old lady's Nazi's and shoving little Asian girls doesn't make you tough, nor does it give you any moral high ground because you see White Supremacists under every rock.

Oh, you're one of Bernier's white supremacist thugs! 

I saw video, punching a man and ripping his sign because it celebrated "inclusion". 

Why is it that white supremacists never want to acknowledge that that's what they are? Ashamed of the truth?