Why I am not Liberal anymore but cannot join the Conservatives

[Olijam]

For the past 20 years I have given my unequivocal support to the Liberal party, but with time I have started to struggle to reconcile my political beliefs with the party’s ideals, and that has nothing to do with Trudeau’s mess-ups.

In general, people have liberal and progressive views when they are younger, but slowly turn to conservatism later in life. I am growing older, and I am leaving some of my liberal aspirations behind, but I still cannot jump on the conservative bandwagon.

I cannot be liberal anymore because:

1.       I am 100% against abortion (it is murder)

2.       I cannot support third and fourth wave feminism in the western world (they are irrelevant)

3.       I am a tired of political correctness

4.       I am against equality of outcome and quotas based on gender and race (while being with equality of opportunity)

I cannot become a conservative because:

1.       I do not support the right to bear arms

2.       I cannot understand climate change doubters and I feel sorry for them

3.       I am opposed to chauvinistic views against immigration

4.       I am with the government taxing the rich to provide more services to the less fortunate

Let us discuss this. I am all for free speech.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Olijam

[jacee]

Abortion won't be brought up again by any political party. It is not a political issue anymore. Those who don't believe in abortion are free not to have one.

If you take that out out of your political considerations, where do you end up? 

 

[Michael Hardner]

What the hell?  You have supported the Liberals for TWENTY years? And now are suddenly changing your mind because of general values they have held for longer than that??

[Olijam]

Good point Jacee..

Michael.. people change... convince me otherwise

[Olijam]

Michael, the change was slow... I might have sounded that I took the decision from one day to the other

 

[Olijam]

Besides ... The liberal party has not change but I have.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Olijam

[Michael Hardner]

You are the one who said recently.  It's fine but it does read oddly sorry.

[Olijam]

I will correct my post..

[Argus]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

What the hell?  You have supported the Liberals for TWENTY years? And now are suddenly changing your mind because of general values they have held for longer than that??

To be fair, the Liberal party was much more open to pro-life people prior to Trudeau and much less intense about identity politics and political correctness.

[Argus]

2 hours ago, Olijam said:

Besides ... The liberal party has not change but I have.

Disagree. The Liberal party has definitely moved to the Left over the past twenty years.  Just look at their stance on gay rights, for one. They went from being officially opposed to gay marriage, to treating it like a sacred and unquestioned right. Likewise they had pro-life candidates, but they are now banned.

[Argus]

3 hours ago, Olijam said:

I cannot become a conservative because:

1.       I do not support the right to bear arms

2.       I cannot understand climate change doubters and I feel sorry for them

3.       I am opposed to chauvinistic views against immigration

4.       I am with the government taxing the rich to provide more services to the less fortunate

Let us discuss this. I am all for free speech.

If you are for free speech then you should probably vote Conservative, as there is a rising sentiment among Liberals and the Left to restrict free speech. As for the right to bear arms - there really isn't a hell of a lot that can be done about that. You can't ban rifles and shotguns. They are a necessary part of life for rural folk, to say nothing of hunters. Banning hand guns is a pointless exercise as almost all the ones being used illegally are coming across the border illegally.

Chauvinistic views on immigration? What exactly has the Conservative party done which shows a 'chauvinistic' view against immigration? They have consistently raised immigration levels and made zero efforts to redirect the source of that immigration towards 'white' countries. People forget it was Mulroney who tripled immigration. It was only 84,000 when he took office,but up to 240,000 when he left. Harper increased it, as well.

The government already taxes 'the rich'. The people it doesn't tax sufficiently are 'the wealthy', like Trudeau and Morneau, those people who move around in chauffeured limousines and have never had to worry about paying bills in their lives. The Liberals have made no attempt at increasing taxes on THOSE people.

As for climate change. The Liberals profess to want to fight it but have not developed any real plan to do so. The carbon tax is window dressing to allow them to virtue-signal but isn't going to accomplish much of anything. It's similar to Chretien signing the accord and then doing absolutely nothing about it for his entire tenure. It's just for show, in other words.

In any event, there's nothing Canada (1.6% of world emissions) is going to be able to do about climate change while most of the rest of the world, including China (30%) does little or nothing.

[Michael Hardner]

8 minutes ago, Argus said:

Disagree. The Liberal party has definitely moved to the Left over the past twenty years. 

The issues described in the OP are older than twenty years and we're in place when they were drawn to the party.

 

Again.  Not wrong.  Weird.

[Michael Hardner]

12 minutes ago, Argus said:

To be fair, the Liberal party was much more open to pro-life people prior to Trudeau and much less intense about identity politics and political correctness.

Good point.  

[Olijam]

One more argument that prevents me from supporting the Conservative party is their general stance against Québec. It is not something hard line documented, and maybe it is not as much the party itself but the supporters of the party. I did not include this in my original post because I wanted to avoid the argument of Quebec identity vs the rest of Canada. I consider myself a proud Canadian. 

Now that I was put into position to defend Quebecers on another forum I must say that we suffered a lot under Harper just as much, if not more, than what Alberta is passing though with Trudeau. We had our own strong recession when Alberta was floating on oil money. 

In Quebec we perceive the Conservative party as the Albertan party much like our Bloc Québécois who thanks God is dead. 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Olijam

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Olijam said:

Now that I was put into position to defend Quebecers on another forum I must say that we suffered a lot under Harper just as much, if not more, than what Alberta is passing though with Trudeau. We had our own strong recession when Alberta was floating on oil money. 

I can't really argue against imaginary grievances. Quebec has mostly suffered economic problems from incompetent provincial governments and high taxes. Quebec's unemployment rate had been above 8%  between 2000 and 2006 the year Harper was elected. It dropped below 8% in 2008, 2009, rose above 8% again the next two years, then dropped below 8% for the rest  of Harper's term in office. It seems to me, then, you should be complaining about how Quebec suffered under Jean Chretien, who was, I believe, not from Alberta, and not a Conservative.

Quote

In Quebec we perceive the Conservative party as the Albertan party much like our Bloc Québécois who thanks God is dead. 

And in most of the rest of the country we perceive the Liberal party as the Quebec party. Since the time of Trudeau senior Quebec has voted tribally, for the Quebecer. Quebec always votes for whichever party has a Quebecer as its leader. The power of this to impact the rest of Canada was enormous since the Liberals tended to collect most Quebec votes up until the advent of the BQ. The only exception was when Mulroney (Quebecer) led the Tories while an anglo from outside Quebec led the Liberals. 

The Conservatives have had leaders from all across Canada, it's current leader being part Ontario, part Saskatchewan. The Liberals are the party of central Canada. They have never chosen a leader from outside the wealthy power blocks/elite schools of Quebec/Ontario, alternating between the two provinces. To Liberals, all other provinces are colonies, and unimportant except to provide markets and resources for central Canada.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Argus

[egghead]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

If you are for free speech then you should probably vote Conservative, as there is a rising sentiment among Liberals and the Left to restrict free speech. As for the right to bear arms - there really isn't a hell of a lot that can be done about that. You can't ban rifles and shotguns. They are a necessary part of life for rural folk, to say nothing of hunters. Banning hand guns is a pointless exercise as almost all the ones being used illegally are coming across the border illegally.

Chauvinistic views on immigration? What exactly has the Conservative party done which shows a 'chauvinistic' view against immigration? They have consistently raised immigration levels and made zero efforts to redirect the source of that immigration towards 'white' countries. People forget it was Mulroney who tripled immigration. It was only 84,000 when he took office,but up to 240,000 when he left. Harper increased it, as well.

The government already taxes 'the rich'. The people it doesn't tax sufficiently are 'the wealthy', like Trudeau and Morneau, those people who move around in chauffeured limousines and have never had to worry about paying bills in their lives. The Liberals have made no attempt at increasing taxes on THOSE people.

As for climate change. The Liberals profess to want to fight it but have not developed any real plan to do so. The carbon tax is window dressing to allow them to virtue-signal but isn't going to accomplish much of anything. It's similar to Chretien signing the accord and then doing absolutely nothing about it for his entire tenure. It's just for show, in other words.

In any event, there's nothing Canada (1.6% of world emissions) is going to be able to do about climate change while most of the rest of the world, including China (30%) does little or nothing.

You are right. Canada conserative is not as bad as liberal friendly medias describe.

 

Anyway, I blame the liberal's mess-ups on the socialism (wonder why no one say solicalism is just Communism in another form). Now, all progressive liberalists are trying to out left each other. I was thinking the same thing over the weekend after watched few fox news, CNN .... clips at youtube. May be we shall call ourselves classical liberalist

Edited April 29, 2019 by egghead

[-1=e^ipi]

There are no good options to vote for. Maybe consider voting for the Libertarian Party as a protest vote.

[egghead]

43 minutes ago, -1=e^ipi said:

There are no good options to vote for. Maybe consider voting for the Libertarian Party as a protest vote.

Unless you are happey with Jt, don't make this kind of idiotic "self-satisfaction" move 

[eyeball]

7 hours ago, Argus said:

Disagree. The Liberal party has definitely moved to the Left over the past twenty years.

The Liberal Party has also kept up the pace of widening the wealth gap between powerful corporations and ordinary people, maintained arms shipments to allied dictatorships, the government is still climbing on everyone's back over pot...

I fail to see what right-wingers really have to whine about.

Edited April 30, 2019 by eyeball

[Michael Hardner]

47 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I fail to see what right-wingers really have to whine about.

They have even started to blame corporations and trade pacts but then they come up with the answer - the same conservative party with a dash of xenophobia

[Army Guy]

2 hours ago, egghead said:

Unless you are happey with Jt, don't make this kind of idiotic "self-satisfaction" move 

What everyone needs to do is show up and vote, it's really that easy....and if Justin does get reelected it is because Canadians want it that way period , it would suck, but you can't teach stupid........both the liberals and cons have to much  blind faith in their leaders, shit they would follow crusty the clown, if they ran under the red and blue banners...both sides just don't want the other to get in....and act to prevent that, regardless of the damage they are doing, and we wonder why sweet f***k all gets done.....and screw what is best for the country.....as long as the other guys don't get in....anyone but Harper campaign ring a bell....and now the cons with Justin.....want something refreshing take a page from PEI election where blue winners offered to make some of the other parties members cabinet members.....say WTF....ya they want to work together and do what is best for the province...

If your one of those people that can not see past your nose and votes for a certain party regardless of policies or platforms ... screw you....voting for one party for your entire life regardless of what that party stands for or what their policies are.....is retarded....closing your eyes to your parties mistakes or missteps is also retarded....Vote for the best platform , the one that will serve you and your families needs, with a huge helping of what is best for the nation....

 

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by Army Guy

[egghead]

11 hours ago, jacee said:

Abortion won't be brought up again by any political party. It is not a political issue anymore. Those who don't believe in abortion are free not to have one.

If you take that out out of your political considerations, where do you end up? 

 

May be only when leftists are in power. conservative may bring in some sort of heart beat rules to counter the abortion

[-1=e^ipi]

2 hours ago, egghead said:

Unless you are happey with Jt, don't make this kind of idiotic "self-satisfaction" move 

Why would I vote for Scheer, when I dislike both Scheer and Trudeau? Scheer is a freedom hating conservative, who doesn't want gays to marry, doesn't want marijuana legal, and wants to sell our country to the dairy cartel.

 

If you and Scheer want my vote so badly, you need to make concessions! Maybe start with abolishing the socialist supply management system, which makes food unnecessarily expensive for poor people and harms our trading relationship with other countries.

Edited April 30, 2019 by -1=e^ipi

[August1991]

12 hours ago, Olijam said:

For the past 20 years I have given my unequivocal support to the Liberal party, but with time I have started to struggle to reconcile my political beliefs with the party’s ideals, and that has nothing to do with Trudeau’s mess-ups.

In general, people have liberal and progressive views when they are younger, but slowly turn to conservatism later in life. I am growing older, and I am leaving some of my liberal aspirations behind, but I still cannot jump on the conservative bandwagon.

I cannot be liberal anymore because:

1.       I am 100% against abortion (it is murder)

2.       I cannot support third and fourth wave feminism in the western world (they are irrelevant)

3.       I am a tired of political correctness

4.       I am against equality of outcome and quotas based on gender and race (while being with equality of opportunity)

I cannot become a conservative because:

1.       I do not support the right to bear arms

2.       I cannot understand climate change doubters and I feel sorry for them

3.       I am opposed to chauvinistic views against immigration

4.       I am with the government taxing the rich to provide more services to the less fortunate

Let us discuss this. I am all for free speech.

Amazing first post. Welcome. My first thoughts.

1. Abortion? Murder? Capital punishment? We send soldiers to kill others. I have no problem with the State sanctioning/permitting murder.

2. Feminism? Women are also humans. Full stop.

3. Me too. I prefer free speech.

4. Me too. But this is a difficult issue.

====

1. Me too. I don't think my neighbour should have the "right to bear" tactical nuclear weapons.

2. Disagree. The numbers aren't there. And I think about the past, when people told us to do something. At most, I'm willing to buy insurance.

3. Disagree. We in the West live well. The world has 7 billion people. Each one has a story.

4. Should we tax you and give all your money to one of the 7 billion poor people? Willing to discuss.

Edited April 30, 2019 by August1991

[egghead]

12 hours ago, August1991 said:

Amazing first post. Welcome. My first thoughts.

1. Abortion? Murder? Capital punishment? We send soldiers to kill others. I have no problem with the State sanctioning/permitting murder.

2. Feminism? Women are also humans. Full stop.

3. Me too. I prefer free speech.

4. Me too. But this is a difficult issue.

====

1. Me too. I don't think my neighbour should have the "right to bear" tactical nuclear weapons.

2. Disagree. The numbers aren't there. And I think about the past, when people told us to do something. At most, I'm willing to buy insurance.

3. Disagree. We in the West live well. The world has 7 billion people. Each one has a story.

4. Should we tax you and give all your money to one of the 7 billion poor people? Willing to discuss.

1. Are you saying abortion is "capital punishment free" murder? I only support early stage pregnancy abortion and late stage abortion only for medical reasons..

2.  C'mon, the latest waves of feminism are not suffragette. They are piranhas

3. / 4. Me too

====

1.  I support the right to bear arms  

2.  Climate changing is really,  but leftiests are milking it.

3.  No open border policy

4.  No more taxing on all of us

Edited April 30, 2019 by egghead