Why Canada is Great

[Yzermandius19]

2 hours ago, Mike Utinne said:

 

Yeah, it's the first time I've actually come across someone like her.

 

Anyway, I believe Canada would be greater if it stood up to the US, protected the nations that it harms and eventually destroy it........

Why do you assume everyone on this forum is female?

Edited May 11, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Argus]

5 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Why do you assume everyone on this forum is female?

I'm a lesbian on the inside.

[Dougie93]

Canada cannot stand up to the United States because Canada can't even stand on its own two feet.

Politically, economically, militarily, Canada is totally dependent on the good will of the Americans.

Canada doesn't even have anything to stand up to the Americans with.

What are you going to do, refuse to export raw resources to them?

Trump said it all, the moment America  impedes Canada's goods at the border,  Canada would spiral into economic ruination.

Canada is a fat, lazy, weak as a kitten American pseudo colony, Canada is incapable of applying leverage against any country, never mind the Global Hegemon.

If Canada actually had a dynamic economy, if Canada actually had a military, if Canada actually had policies based on realpolitik, the Americans would respect that.

But the Americans have no reason to respect Canada the dependent corporate welfare case throwing itself at their mercy and then biting at the hand that feeds them.

"Canada", which is simply another word for Confederation, is not really a country at all.

It's ten British colonies all squabbling with each other and getting nowhere, because there is no unified national interest.

Thus "Canada" is self divided and self conquered without any intervention from the Americans, the Americans are in fact the only thing propping it up.

Edited May 12, 2019 by Dougie93

[Zeitgeist]

20 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Canada cannot stand up to the United States because Canada can't even stand on its own two feet.

Politically, economically, militarily, Canada is totally dependent on the good will of the Americans.

Canada doesn't even have anything to stand up to the Americans with.

What are you going to do, refuse to export raw resources to them?

Trump said it all, the moment America  impedes Canada's goods at the border,  Canada would spiral into economic ruination.

Canada is a fat, lazy, weak as a kitten American pseudo colony, Canada is incapable of applying leverage against any country, never mind the Global Hegemon.

If Canada actually had a dynamic economy, if Canada actually had a military, if Canada actually had policies based on realpolitik, the Americans would respect that.

But the Americans have no reason to respect Canada the dependent corporate welfare case throwing itself at their mercy and then biting at the hand that feeds them.

"Canada", which is simply another word for Confederation, is not really a country at all.

It's ten British colonies all squabbling with each other and getting nowhere, because there is no unified national interest.

Thus "Canada" is self divided and self conquered without any intervention from the Americans, the Americans are in fact the only thing propping it up.

And yet Canada is better managed and more progressive.  You only respect military might.  Canada cannot compete militarily with the superpowers, nor should it try.  You haven’t made a case to explain how Canadian society is worse than American society.  

[Yzermandius19]

Canada is not better managed and more "progressive" is a bad thing.
/shrugs

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Canada is not better managed and more "progressive" is a bad thing.
/shrugs

That’s inscrutable.  Everything we do should be about progress.  The arguments should be about what constitutes progress.  There are criteria that do this in various indices, things like social cohesion, infant mortality rate, income variability, economic stability, crime rates, rule of law, business start-up conditions, cost of living vs. wages, employment participation and unemployment rates, environmental and labor conditions, etc. There are many ways to measure economic growth and quality of life.  So how do you measure it?  What are the conditions for a successful society?  Some are debatable.  Some are not.  

Edited May 13, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[Yzermandius19]

40 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

That’s inscrutable.  Everything we do should be about progress.  The arguments should be about what constitutes progress.  There are criteria that do this in various indices, things like social cohesion, infant mortality rate, income variability, economic stability, crime rates, rule of law, business start-up conditions, cost of living vs. wages, employment participation and unemployment rates, environmental and labor conditions, etc. There are many ways to measure economic growth and quality of life.  So how do you measure it?  What are the conditions for a successful society?  Some are debatable.  Some are not.  

The vast majority of those who call themselves progressives wouldn't know progress if it slapped them in the face, so they champion extremist causes because there are no real civil rights issues to go after anymore. They consider anyone slightly to the right of them as alt-right nazi's, projecting their own extremism on their political opponents to help themselves feel better about their hypocritical actions.

[Zeitgeist]

8 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

The vast majority of those who call themselves progressives wouldn't know progress if it slapped them in the face, so they champion extremist causes because there are no real civil rights issues to go after anymore. They consider anyone slightly to the right of them as alt-right nazi's, projecting their own extremism on their political opponents to help themselves feel better about their hypocritical actions.

I don’t disagree with your critique of some of the left, but I think it applies to some on the right as well.  The losers in the new culture wars as in the more traditional class wars between the left and right are the majority of people who are neither privileged nor dependent on the state: the middle and working classes.  The main issue today should be how to expand the middle class, raise wages, and provide the infrastructure and supports that the private sector won’t, such as decent training, education,  efficient public transportation, and affordable health care.  That used to be the left’s main purpose.  It seems that now the left’s main focus is not simply equality of opportunity but discrediting the merited success and skill/knowledge of people by gender, race, religion, and sexual orientation.  You may fall into a certain group through no choice of your own yet have the injustices of a century ago laid at your feet and see job opportunities vanish in the name of equity.  Who decides where the line of affirmative action is drawn?   When are the reparations paid in full and by whom?

As long as the left seeks redistribution of wealth and opportunity to the unqualified based on superficial identifiers, the wealthy and so-called “privileged” will try to protect their wealth and opportunity, especially if they’ve worked hard and feel under attack.  What’s different today is that a new form of untouchable has emerged: the uneducated/unskilled white male.  Non-whites experienced disenfranchisement for some time.  Two wrongs don’t make a right.  It’s been strange watching the debates between those who blame the world’s problems on white supremacists versus those who blame Jihadists.  All people who express themselves through hate or violence are a threat.

The left will only win over the mainstream and keep the excesses of the right in check (such as Muslim bans), if it gets out of identity politics and focuses on creating opportunities without making certain groups feel under siege. We used to have the idea of big tent politics.  The political centre, like the middle class, is endangered.

 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

Fuck the middle class,  they won't fight for anything, bourgeois cowards will get what they deserve.

They stand idly by in the face of a communist take over, that war will come to their doors inevitably, too bad so sad.

The middle class hides while the loonie left imposes a Chinese Communist style "Social Credit" totalitarian agenda.

You're either with them, or you're with us, pick a side.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Dougie93

[Zeitgeist]

4 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Fuck the middle class,  they won't fight for anything, bourgeois cowards will get what they deserve.

They stand idly by in the face of a communist take over, that war will come to their doors inevitably, too bad so sad.

The middle class hides while the loonie left imposes a Chinese Communist style "Social Credit" totalitarian agenda.

You're either with them, or you're with us, pick a side.

Where do moderate working people fit into your take no prisoners world?  I’m not especially interested in high finance money managers and people who collect the rent without doing much work.  I’m also uninterested in technocrat micro managers who think they can and should control every aspect of the economy.  I think policy should primarily support working people and families, with safeguards for the vulnerable.    

Edited May 13, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[Army Guy]

22 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

And yet Canada is better managed and more progressive.  You only respect military might.  Canada cannot compete militarily with the superpowers, nor should it try.  You haven’t made a case to explain how Canadian society is worse than American society.  

With everything that has been going on lately how can you say better managed...My grand sons day care is better managed.. Canadians don't want a super power of a military, we would however like one that could keep all of our nations defensive pacts requirements.....we like one that is ready for everything our government tasks it to do....we would like it to be able to hold it's head up high....with it's soldiers , airmen, sailors to know Canadians citizens has it backs no matter what , sometimes it is the little things that count... 

[Zeitgeist]

Just now, Army Guy said:

With everything that has been going on lately how can you say better managed...My grand sons day care is better managed.. Canadians don't want a super power of a military, we would however like one that could keep all of our nations defensive pacts requirements.....we like one that is ready for everything our government tasks it to do....we would like it to be able to hold it's head up high....with it's soldiers , airmen, sailors to know Canadians citizens has it backs no matter what , sometimes it is the little things that count... 

I agree, but at least we don’t have as much violence or inner city blight.  The only way we can do more is if we have the resources, human and technical, to do more.  That’s one of the main reasons we need a strong resource sector.  Norway calls its oil treasury its pension fund...

[Army Guy]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

I agree, but at least we don’t have as much violence or inner city blight.  The only way we can do more is if we have the resources, human and technical, to do more.  That’s one of the main reasons we need a strong resource sector.  Norway calls its oil treasury its pension fund...

It's there all you have to do is go looking for it,  and in most large cities it's not all that hard to find....the bils we spend looking after other countries blight could go a long way to fixing ours....what we need is better management...right now Canadians are desperate for a real good leader...Justin leadership skills are in the negative right now...but then again thats what you get when you mix good hair and legal pot....

[Dougie93]

25 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Where do moderate working people fit into your take no prisoners world?  I’m not especially interested in high finance money managers and people who collect the rent without doing much work.  I’m also uninterested in technocrat micro managers who think they can and should control every aspect of the economy.  I think policy should primarily support working people and families, with safeguards for the vulnerable.    

Moderate working people can get with the counterrevolution against the left, or they can burn in the fire of the chaos that ensues as the left goes off the deep end trying to impose the Chinese Communist Social Credit totalitarian model.

I'm not imposing anything on moderates, the left has gone communist, I am counterrevolutionary against that.

I'm not a moderate, obviously someone who signs the contract of unlimited liability and swears the oath to mass murder for the British Crown is not moderate.

I cannot help those who cower in the bottom of their trenches in the face of a communist takeover, what are they asking from me, capitulation?

I'm not asking them to shoot anybody,  they can give me state sanction to do my duty, and I will shoot these commies for them, same as it ever was.

 

 

[Dougie93]

Bear in mind, I hold to the oath, so long as these moderates are failing to provide state sanction to use force, these commies enjoy the protection of the Crown.

Don't wait until it is full on PRC style facial recognition software and "social credit" scoring blacklists before you rescind that protection.

Designate them as the enemies of the Crown, give us the green light to do our duty, we can't save you unless you give us the signature of the Queen.

I will kill for you, I will die for you, but only on the orders of the Commander-in-Chief.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

Think it hasn't been done before?

Has been done before.

FLQ Crisis 1970.

Rounded up the rabble rousing  college academics and threw them in jail.

Deported the FLQ conspirators to Cuba.

Give us the signature of the Queen, War Measures Act, Section 33 to suspend the Charter.

Defend yourselves from this communist takeover, before it's too late.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Dougie93

[Billious]

Is 2019 Canada great? What is 'great'  ?

[Zeitgeist]

8 hours ago, Billious said:

Is 2019 Canada great? What is 'great'  ?

I believe great is a combination of what you aspire to be and what you actually do to achieve it.  Honourable goals and hard work to achieve them is about as much as can be asked of a person and a society.  Aspirationally Canada is on the right track.  In actuality the track record is spottier.  Still there are many successes to celebrate in health, education, the arts, rights and freedoms, etc.  I think the challenge isn’t so much knowing our direction as figuring out how to get there.  

Though there are differences of opinion, for example, determining how many restrictions on freedom the state should impose, how many services should be provided by government, the optimum business conditions and so forth, we tend to all want people to enjoy a certain amount of health, freedom of movement, opportunity, and material wealth.  The left tries to impose a universal standard.  The right tends to avoid setting standards and instead reduces limits on individual wealth and power.  It doesn’t try to correct imbalances through government intervention.   At least that’s the traditional definition of left and right.  I’d argue that all political parties intervene quite heavily in the economy and that a certain amount of this is healthy.  It’s all about finding the right balance of ingredients, the right recipe.  I think we’ve got a very good recipe in Canada as a whole.  

Edited May 17, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[August1991]

On 5/11/2019 at 5:09 AM, Mike Utinne said:

.....

Anyway, I believe Canada would be greater if it stood up to the US, protected the nations that it harms and eventually destroy it........

Strongly disagree.

You're wrong. Despite what many people in the Ontario tribe believe: ("Hate America, Canada good"), many other Ontarians are willing to vote otherwise.

=====

IMHO, what makes Canada great is that a few ordinary people sometimes vote outside their tribe...

We've done it for centuries.

Even in 1867 in Ontario (Upper Canada) people chose a Catholic. Heck, our first federal Catholic PM was Conservative, from Nova Scotia.

Edited May 17, 2019 by August1991

[August1991]

On 5/7/2019 at 2:47 PM, taxme said:

Canada lacks real and true conservative free enterprise leaders in government. Canadians do not need a big brother liberal socialist government, they need fiscally responsible politically incorrect politicians who believe in more freedom, less government, less taxes, and a lot less immigration. Take on those mentioned above and Canada can really see it's potential and become a truly great wealthy country. Government "IS" the problem, and never the solution. As I said many times before, Canada has been controlled by too many special interest minority groups who have done nothing for Canada but to make it un great. A country cannot expect to do well when it panders to a small minority who are totally clueless as to how to run a bloody thing. 

This world does not lack children alright. One just has to go to China, India, and Africa to see that. Way to many children are suffering because of the amount of children being brought into the world in those countries mentioned where those people cannot even afford to have one child. And then Canadians and other western countries are being forced by their politicians to help pay for and to try and keep them all alive and well. I say no more foreign aid to any country. Keep our tax dollars in Canada to try, and make Canada great, and look after our poor, and not bankrupt and poor. Canadians do not owe the rest of the world anything. They brought their problems on themselves, and they must be left to live with their problems and fix them. My opinion, of course. Works for me. 

Taxme, I largely agree, Except for:

"...a lot less immigration." Immigration? We're a country with lots of space, the weather is awful.

"As I said many times before, Canada has been controlled...." Canada? What is "Canada?"

"Way to (sic) many children are suffering... "  In Canada? 

===

IMHO, what makes Canada great is that people in Canada often vote outside their tribe. 

Taxme, how will your rant change Canada? Will it make it greater?

Edited May 17, 2019 by August1991

[Mike Otkins]

13 hours ago, Billious said:

Is 2019 Canada great? What is 'great'  ?

 

You are doing much better than most of the world...... that's great.

[August1991]

5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I believe great is a combination of what you aspire to be and what you actually do to achieve it.  Honourable goals and hard work to achieve them is about as much as can be asked of a person and a society.  Aspirationally Canada is on the right track.  In actuality the track record is spottier.  Still there are many successes to celebrate in health, education, the arts, rights and freedoms, etc.  I think the challenge isn’t so much knowing our direction as figuring out how to get there.  

Though there are differences of opinion, for example, determining how many restrictions on freedom the state should impose, how many services should be provided by government, the optimum business conditions and so forth, we tend to all want people to enjoy a certain amount of health, freedom of movement, opportunity, and material wealth.  The left tries to impose a universal standard.  The right tends to avoid setting standards and instead reduces limits on individual wealth and power.  It doesn’t try to correct imbalances through government intervention.   At least that’s the traditional definition of left and right.  I’d argue that all political parties intervene quite heavily in the economy and that a certain amount of this is healthy.  It’s all about finding the right balance of ingredients, the right recipe.  I think we’ve got a very good recipe in Canada as a whole.  

".. aspire to be ... standards... right balance....  "

Blah, blah....

=====

Trudeau Snr said: "how the majority treats the minority".  

I describe it differently: someone who perceives to be a minority: "a franco Catholic voting for a WASP - when given the choice of a franco Catholic". 

Others: Une mentalité de colonisé...

====

Yet, we Canadians do it.

Edited May 17, 2019 by August1991

[Michael Hardner]

3 hours ago, August1991 said:

 IMHO, what makes Canada great is that people in Canada often vote outside their tribe. 

Further to that, we have created a 'tribe' that is based on an idea, so it is inclusive.  The idea is not well articulated, but it is derived from the American and British models with an emphasis on inclusion.  We are doomed to forever compare ourselves to our massive southern neighbour, but we should recognize that our tribal model allows for more flexibility and growth.  Jingoism and chauvinism are much harder to achieve here.

 

 

[Yzermandius19]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Further to that, we have created a 'tribe' that is based on an idea, so it is inclusive.  The idea is not well articulated, but it is derived from the American and British models with an emphasis on inclusion.  We are doomed to forever compare ourselves to our massive southern neighbour, but we should recognize that our tribal model allows for more flexibility and growth.  Jingoism and chauvinism are much harder to achieve here.

 

 

Communism is also much easier to achieve here, especially Eskimo Communism.

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Communism is also much easier to achieve here, especially Eskimo Communism.

And yet Communism was born and fell worldwide, and in Canada they never won a single seat.