Grassy Narrows Mercury Contamination

eyeball · April 9, 2019

10 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

For a while there it seemed like you do. I mean, you do actually... like... PM Justin Trudeau. Don't you?

Sorry but you're just not that stupid.

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Really, those who sneer at the notion of giving natives more support do so because it has been such a litany of failure. Incompetence and failure on the government side, along with embezzlement and organized crime, saw to it that the money was misappropriated. For the most part these people haven't found a place for themselves in Canadian society, and their future largely depends on government handouts, and selling cheap cigarettes. So why wouldn't ordinary Joe Bob just say, screw the natives eh. They don't deserve more money?

No, I think they deserve more land, sovereignty and self-government. I said those who profess to be fed up with natives directly - for the most part the onus is on us newcomers to fit in better. Joe Bob can go fuck himself with his own government, something I'm quite certain he'll continue to do anyway.

OftenWrong · April 9, 2019

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I think they deserve more land, sovereignty and self-government.

The Crown does not agree.

eyeball · April 9, 2019

Just now, OftenWrong said:

The Crown does not agree.

It does where I live.

OftenWrong · April 9, 2019

24 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It does where I live.

What does?

eyeball · April 9, 2019

4 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

What does?

Maybe you are that stupid after all.

Rue · April 9, 2019

8 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

For a while there it seemed like you do. I mean, you do actually... like... PM Justin Trudeau. Don't you?

Really, those who sneer at the notion of giving natives more support do so because it has been such a litany of failure. Incompetence and failure on the government side, along with embezzlement and organized crime, saw to it that the money was misappropriated. For the most part these people haven't found a place for themselves in Canadian society, and their future largely depends on government handouts, and selling cheap cigarettes. So why wouldn't ordinary Joe Bob just say, screw the natives eh. They don't deserve more money?

While the issues are complex I doubt Eye understood you were trying to explain why I would guess to say many Canadians if not the majority use the reasoning you explained. No doubt he will take it personally, etc. Your point is well taken. Most people believe he above as do many aboriginal peoples who left their societies to live in the non aboriginal world.

The system is broken because we created an environment that creates a never ending cycle of dependence on government handouts. There is abuse of the funding process and money itself is thrown into a political network that often mismanages or out and out embezzles the funds.

Reforming the corrupted parallel government of the aboriginals is an issue frought with accusations of racism if you point it out as a non aboriginal and a guaranteed accusation you are a sell out traitor if you are aboriginal.

It will take more than fake tears from a shallow poser like Trudeau at photo ops to deal with the issues. The Indian Act should have been ditched years ago. Also the federal government has the right to ask for specific accounting standards if it gives out money which its not enforcing or even asking for.

I believe aboriginals need to step up to the place in regards to examining their own internal corruption.

All that said, when we pollute and harm any community we must step up to the plate and remedy the damage and hold he polluters as much as possible responsible for the expense of the clean up.

In regards to certain not all aboriginal communities that are isolated, we have to ask, if someone wants to live in isolation, is it realistic they can expect the same services as someone in a complex built up city. For people in isolated communities it may be we need to plug them in with satellite technology solar energy, wind and water purification systems for their het and air conditioning and communication systems not high transmission lines, or traditional energy grids. We should also be introducing biodegradeable mould proof housing materials or even housing.

jacee · April 9, 2019

Folks, Can we please stick to the topic of what should be done about mercury contamination at Grassy Narrows? There are several other threads for expounding on your views of what 'should' be done about Indigenous Peoples in general.

To recap:

The Feds have already promised a clinic, but it hasn't been funded yet.

ONTARIO is responsible for the pulp mill, and thus for mercury cleanup, but hasn't done so yet.

Edited April 9, 2019 by jacee

DogOnPorch · April 9, 2019

2 minutes ago, jacee said:

Folks, Can we please stick to the topic of what should be done about mercury contamination at Grassy Narrows? There are several other threads for expounding on your views of what 'should' be done about Indigenous Peoples in general.

It should be cleaned-up...period. And JT has clearly dropped the ball.

Not enough votes there, I suppose.

OftenWrong · April 9, 2019

9 hours ago, eyeball said:

Maybe you are that stupid after all.

Not really, just lost the frequency again. AFC tracking went off. Need more squelch, or something.

OftenWrong · April 9, 2019

1 hour ago, DogOnPorch said:

It should be cleaned-up...period. And JT has clearly dropped the ball.

Not enough votes there, I suppose.

I think had he chosen to "man-up" and take action when the moment came, it would have been a freakin political home-run. He would be a hero. I mean, he had the damn chance to prove himself right here! Not only to help these people improve their health, but fix what successive governments haven't done.

Instead he chose to go further down the rabbit hole. Mr. Trudeau's behaviour of late has been getting curiouser and curiouser.

eyeball · April 9, 2019

1 hour ago, jacee said:

Folks, Can we please stick to the topic of what should be done about mercury contamination at Grassy Narrows? There are several other threads for expounding on your views of what 'should' be done about Indigenous Peoples in general.

To recap:

The Feds have already promised a clinic, but it hasn't been funded yet.

ONTARIO is responsible for the pulp mill, and thus for mercury cleanup, but hasn't done so yet.

In light of the fact that our governments can't or won't do their jobs means the can has been kicked squarely into the electorate's camp. The fact we keep electing governments that can't or won't do their jobs puts the can squarely into the native's camp. People keep saying natives need to take responsibility for their plight and I couldn't agree more and what they should do is become more assertive and force the Crown to renegotiate the terms of their treaty. Treaty Number 3.

That's what should be done about mercury poisoning at Grassy Narrows. Many will say treaties are done deals and can't be renegotiated but Treaty Number 3 is interesting.

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It was the third in a series of eleven numbered treaties between the Crown and First Nation band governments. Despite being the third of these treaties it is more historically significant in that its text and terms served as the model for the remainder of the numbered treaties. Treaties 1 and 2 covered an area about the same size and had to be amended to reflect some of the developments arising out of the negotiation of Treaty 3. At the time that it was negotiated it was anticipated that the terms of Treaty 3 would serve as a model for future treaties and would require the amendment of Treaties 1 and 2 [Letter from Minister of the Interior Campbell to Lieutenant-Governor Morris, 5 August 1873, Public Archives of Canada ("PAC"), RG10, Vol. 1904].

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_3

So past treaties with First Nations can in fact be amended in the wake of other treaties negotiated by the Crown and the Numbered Treaties should be renegotiated to reflect developments arising from modern 21st century treaties being settled in BC for example.

To be perfectly honest I think the fastest way to get the Feds to build the clinic and for Ontario to clean up it's mess is for the people of Grassy Narrows and their allies to get militant.

DogOnPorch · April 9, 2019

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

I think had he chosen to "man-up" and take action when the moment came, it would have been a freakin political home-run. He would be a hero. I mean, he had the damn chance to prove himself right here! Not only to help these people improve their health, but fix what successive governments haven't done.

Instead he chose to go further down the rabbit hole. Mr. Trudeau's behaviour of late has been getting curiouser and curiouser.

"Thanks for your donation"...and then shuffled out by his hired goons.

Fail...

OftenWrong · April 9, 2019

6 hours ago, eyeball said:

So past treaties with First Nations can in fact be amended in the wake of other treaties negotiated by the Crown and the Numbered Treaties should be renegotiated to reflect developments arising from modern 21st century treaties being settled in BC for example.

To be perfectly honest I think the fastest way to get the Feds to build the clinic and for Ontario to clean up it's mess is for the people of Grassy Narrows and their allies to get militant.

Maybe send them a postcard with your ideas written on it, see if that goes anywhere. I suspect you are flogging a dead horse if you think there is hope in that. In regards to natives, the Crown does not assist, it resists. Canada's PM gave his input on this issue here, it doesn't faze him. When Trudeau's lips move, Canada speaks.

Also the notion that people need to hang in there and suck mercury contaminated water while they wait for a treaty negotiation, with THE GOVERNMENT no less, doesn't sound like the most effective road to success here. Please wait while we negotiate a new treaty, one that may possibly impact all other treaties, and require their renegotiation? No thanks. Because, in my experience, if they were actually capable of solving this problem they would have done it by now.

You are also suggesting that natives should light some fires, maybe if they put a little smoke under the government's ass it might move a little faster. Perhaps. It's not a solution though, just a reaction.

How about some alternate solutions. Here's what I would say if I were native to the Government and the Crown of Canada: @*&$ #!*
I'm not going to depend on you at all. I'm going to solve the problem, somehow, without your help. That means getting my own money. Start a lottery. Crowdfund. Get the story out and ask for volunteers. Buy a truckload of shovels and go look for the damned shit.

eyeball · April 10, 2019

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Also the notion that people need to hang in there and suck mercury contaminated water while they wait for a treaty negotiation, with THE GOVERNMENT no less, doesn't sound like the most effective road to success here.

Where did I suggest they should wait for that? This is your notion not mine.

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You are also suggesting that natives should light some fires, maybe if they put a little smoke under the government's ass it might move a little faster. Perhaps. It's not a solution though, just a reaction.

The intent is act to make the government react. You're looking at it in far too tepid a manner.

Quote

How about some alternate solutions. Here's what I would say if I were native to the Government and the Crown of Canada: @*&$ #!*
I'm not going to depend on you at all. I'm going to solve the problem, somehow, without your help. That means getting my own money. Start a lottery. Crowdfund. Get the story out and ask for volunteers. Buy a truckload of shovels and go look for the damned shit.

These are just more fires you're suggesting on the path to a solution. They're good ideas they'd probably galvanize a lot of public support.

Quote

I suspect you are flogging a dead horse if you think there is hope in that (Treaty renegotiation).

That's okay, I doubt your heart is really behind solving natives issues so I'm not surprised to hear you say that.

OftenWrong · April 10, 2019

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

I doubt your heart is really behind solving natives issues so I'm not surprised to hear you say that.

Imagine that, a right-winger who cares about other human beings and wants to hold the government accountable... I'm sure the mind just boggles.

OftenWrong · April 10, 2019

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

You're looking at it in far too tepid a manner.

I am the only one suggesting a different approach than just keep on lobbying the good old minister. The minister ain't no Indian. Ever wonder how that works? Why weren't they given the opportunity to represent themselves more directly in government? Seems like a good idea to me. It's too late now though, isn't it. Why do they refuse to take it now, even if it is being offered? Hmmmm

The system is pretty clear in what it intends for these people. Assimilation, or subjugation.

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

These are just more fires you're suggesting on the path to a solution. They're good ideas they'd probably galvanize a lot of public support.

Great, so go and start some crowdfunding then. No?
That's what I thought.

eyeball · April 10, 2019

9 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

The system is pretty clear in what it intends for these people. Assimilation, or subjugation.

What would you do if you were one of these people?

OftenWrong · April 11, 2019

8 hours ago, eyeball said:

What would you do if you were one of these people?

I already said what. However it is hard to say for sure what I would really do, because you have to be born that way to know. I am me, born privileged, entitled, taught to be powerful, to dominate others. Sounds pretty good, eh? Any takers?

Owly · April 11, 2019

4 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I already said what. However it is hard to say for sure what I would really do, because you have to be born that way to know. I am me, born privileged, entitled, taught to be powerful, to dominate others. Sounds pretty good, eh? Any takers?

I wonder who you think you dominate.

OftenWrong · April 11, 2019

11 hours ago, Owly said:

I wonder who you think you dominate.

Indeed. I bet you are quite curious.

Charles Anthony · April 11, 2019

Folks,

Avoid making the discussions personal. None of you are the topic of this thread discussion.

August1991 · April 12, 2019

On 4/3/2019 at 12:32 AM, Robert Greene said:

If you been following the news, a member of the Grassy Narrows first Nation community, interrupted Justin Trudeau at a Liberal fund raiser.

.....

Was the person really a member of the Grassy Narrows reserve (I'm not even certain that such a band exists)? At most, there are about 1000 registered Indians there.

====

I've been to north-western Ontario. Mercury is not really a problem there now.

I reckon that this was a "set up" - an organised insult of Justin Trudeau.

Edited April 12, 2019 by August1991

Donnie · April 12, 2019

Agreed. Im a conservative but contrary to the leftist caricature I doubt any true conservative cares nothing for people. That's just ridiculous.

Left people need government to solve their problems.

Right people want to solve their own problems. We dont need or want government.

But government does need to step in to help people who are at risk. Through no fault of their own they dont have food or water.

jacee · April 13, 2019

16 hours ago, August1991 said:

Was the person really a member of the Grassy Narrows reserve (I'm not even certain that such a band exists)? At most, there are about 1000 registered Indians there.

====

I've been to north-western Ontario. Mercury is not really a problem there now.

I reckon that this was a "set up" - an organised insult of Justin Trudeau.

http://freegrassy.net/2016/06/19/on-ignored-confession-of-toxic-mercury-dump-upstream-from-grassy-narrows/