Army Guy Posted April 5, 2019 Report Posted April 5, 2019 9 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: A criminal organization? C’mon. They’re the country’s biggest engineering firm, so of course they’re going to have a higher volume of such incidents than other companies. So your saying this happens a lot , and that is OK with you....is 9000 jobs worth breaking the rule of law...I'm just guessing but because they are French jobs your going to say yes....mean while the 100,000 jobs lost in Alberta are not worth anything.....not breaking the law, not breaking any treaty rights, not even breaking a sweat....oh ya they bought a 4.5 bil dollar pipeline, nobody wants....or wants to twin it anyway... 2 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
egghead Posted April 5, 2019 Report Posted April 5, 2019 27 minutes ago, Owly said: The dpa would mean the those that are guilty will be fined and held to account without hurting those who are innocent of the crimes. who and how? Quote
Army Guy Posted April 5, 2019 Report Posted April 5, 2019 27 minutes ago, Owly said: The dpa would mean the those that are guilty will be fined and held to account without hurting those who are innocent of the crimes. Perhaps you need to reread what a DPA is and what it is used for....in this case granting a DPA would mean the company would face a large fine, and go about their business, still able to bid on Canadian contracts....still able to use hookers and large suit cases full of bribe money...to gain contracts.... No DPA means the company and those that are guilty will face the courts, much larger fines or convictions if found guilty ....not being able to bid on all Canadian contracts for 10 years, BUT there is a loop hole they would be able to bid on national security contracts and a few more different types of contracts....so they are not totally out of the loop.... Once again how does any of this even touch the worker bees....it does not unless they took part in breaking the law....or unless the company declares bankruptcy from lack of income...once again HOW does it effect the workers again....SNC is still a very viable company, with lots of cash reserves available.... Is 9000 jobs worth breaking the rule of law ? ....Yes I'm asking you this question.... 2 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
cannuck Posted April 6, 2019 Author Report Posted April 6, 2019 3 hours ago, Owly said: Except they might have to move to Libya. I've been there and I wouldn't be in any hurry to return. Libya now is a lot worse than it was before the end of Ghadaffi. Essentially a bunch of warlords squabbling over the fantastic oil resources. Better now than two/three years ago, but hardly a safe place to be. Genuine PITA to do business with as the US and UN sanctions are very complex to comply or verify compliance with. Quote
Owly Posted April 6, 2019 Report Posted April 6, 2019 2 hours ago, egghead said: who and how? Apparently you haven't read up on how a dpa works. Quote
Owly Posted April 6, 2019 Report Posted April 6, 2019 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: Perhaps you need to reread what a DPA is and what it is used for....in this case granting a DPA would mean the company would face a large fine, and go about their business, still able to bid on Canadian contracts....still able to use hookers and large suit cases full of bribe money...to gain contracts.... No DPA means the company and those that are guilty will face the courts, much larger fines or convictions if found guilty ....not being able to bid on all Canadian contracts for 10 years, BUT there is a loop hole they would be able to bid on national security contracts and a few more different types of contracts....so they are not totally out of the loop.... Once again how does any of this even touch the worker bees....it does not unless they took part in breaking the law....or unless the company declares bankruptcy from lack of income...once again HOW does it effect the workers again....SNC is still a very viable company, with lots of cash reserves available.... Is 9000 jobs worth breaking the rule of law ? ....Yes I'm asking you this question.... I suggest you re read what a dpa does. Quote
cannuck Posted April 6, 2019 Author Report Posted April 6, 2019 1 minute ago, Owly said: Apparently you haven't read up on how a dpa works. And you need to go back to Rue's review of the law involved. SNC does not qualify. Quote
Owly Posted April 6, 2019 Report Posted April 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, cannuck said: And you need to go back to Rue's review of the law involved. SNC does not qualify. I'll do my own review thanks. His are often faulty. Quote
egghead Posted April 6, 2019 Report Posted April 6, 2019 13 minutes ago, Owly said: Apparently you haven't read up on how a dpa works. teach me please Quote
Owly Posted April 6, 2019 Report Posted April 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, egghead said: teach me please Company gets fined for legal breaches and gets put under a spotlight to reform or face further prosecution. The blue collar guys/gals get to keep their jobs in the meantime. Quote
eyeball Posted April 6, 2019 Report Posted April 6, 2019 6 hours ago, Army Guy said: My question to you is this, Do you think that 9000 jobs is worth breaking rule of law for, knowing all the above plus everything else that has happened since the start of this dogs breakfast... I certainly hope this decimates the Liberals in the next election and then...it'll be interesting to see what the Conservatives do. Will they leave SNC out in the cold? For sure they'll leave DPA's in place, they're just to big a boon to peoplecorporatekind but will Conservatives say piss on SNCQuebec? I bet the base will cheer if they do. In any case I suspect Conservatives will be cagey and as nervous as cats in a room full of rocking chairs if questions arise about DPA's/SNC during the next election. And if they don't and if corruption and politics as usual are not the premier issues of the election then Canada truly deserves to be ass-raped by corporatekind. Repeatedly. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
egghead Posted April 6, 2019 Report Posted April 6, 2019 31 minutes ago, Owly said: Company gets fined for legal breaches and gets put under a spotlight to reform or face further prosecution. The blue collar guys/gals get to keep their jobs in the meantime. C'mon, it means that only company will pay the fine, and that is the end of it. When you said this, I thought you mean CEO, CTO would go to the court. Quote Once again, a dpa would NOT have gotten the company clear of any charges, it would simply have applied penalties to the people in offices who's actions caused the charges, and not teh people punching a time clock. 1 Quote
Owly Posted April 6, 2019 Report Posted April 6, 2019 1 minute ago, egghead said: C'mon, it means that only company will pay the fine, and that is the end of it. When you said this, I thought you mean CEO, CTO would go to the court. The act requires they either conform or go to court. Quote
egghead Posted April 6, 2019 Report Posted April 6, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Army Guy said: ....... My question to you is this, Do you think that 9000 jobs is worth breaking rule of law for, ..., Stop saying 9000 jobs, please, that is not truth. The btm line is that do you think that liberal party winning the next election is worth breaking rule of law for? Edited April 6, 2019 by egghead Quote
cannuck Posted April 6, 2019 Author Report Posted April 6, 2019 7 minutes ago, Owly said: The act requires they either conform or go to court. They haven't "conformed" to any law in any country for decades, are obviously guilty (have already been convicted of the related crimes in 3 countries) so are NOT eligible for deferment. 1 Quote
Realitycheck Posted April 6, 2019 Report Posted April 6, 2019 4 hours ago, Army Guy said: The DPA would mean SNC would face a large fine , and a case closed, still allowed to take on any Canadian contract that is out there, slap on wrist, business as usual...still able to buy off clients with hookers , and large payouts .........not having a DPA means charges will move forward in the courts, with much larger fines and or sentences to those that are guilty, no more hookers or buy outs.........At no time are the people punching the clock going to court or facing charges unless they are guilty of something, there jobs would be secured unless the company collapsed not going to happen.... ....Once again even if SNC is found guilty SNC will NOT be barred for all Canadian contracts.....so tell me again how are regular jobs threaten by this whole thing again...How did SNC fair when they were barred from any WTO contracts did they tell them were pulling out all our workers....moving our HQ....NO they wanted to leave that for their home country which has pretty much supported them with everything including their very being on the planet......Trudeau should have told them , here's your suit case I pack for you , don't let the door hit your in the ass on the way to the airport....good luck in Europe or where ever your going...and called their bluff....but then again SNC CEO's have already refuted all that, there was no moving the HQ or laying of workers, that was a liberal lie..... do you think 9000 jobs is worth breaking the rule of law.... No jobs are threatened save one...Justin's. 1 Quote
Owly Posted April 6, 2019 Report Posted April 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, cannuck said: They haven't "conformed" to any law in any country for decades, are obviously guilty (have already been convicted of the related crimes in 3 countries) so are NOT eligible for deferment. They are eligible for a dpa and that is now in the hands of David Lametti. We shall see. Quote
cannuck Posted April 6, 2019 Author Report Posted April 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, Owly said: They are eligible for a dpa and that is now in the hands of David Lametti. We shall see. Only under a government that has absolutely no respect for the rule of law. This is starting to look more like Russia than Canada. Quote
Owly Posted April 6, 2019 Report Posted April 6, 2019 5 minutes ago, cannuck said: Only under a government that has absolutely no respect for the rule of law. This is starting to look more like Russia than Canada. Well let's see who else has a dpa in effect, um, tyhere's the USA, the United Kingdom, and Australia just off the top of my head. I hadn't heard that Russia had one. Please advise. Quote
Zeitgeist Posted April 6, 2019 Report Posted April 6, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, cannuck said: Only under a government that has absolutely no respect for the rule of law. This is starting to look more like Russia than Canada. Privyet tovarishi. Hey comrades, pour me a stackan of Stolichnaya. On a serious note, Conrad has it right on this. Yes I know, he has many detractors, but focus on the content: https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj15J6pgrzhAhWs7oMKHb5SALEQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fnationalpost.com%2Fopinion%2Fconrad-black-what-people-are-getting-wrong-about-this-entire-silly-affair&psig=AOvVaw22qwgd07PDF9CuzfOSNMSd&ust=1554659026088911 Edited April 6, 2019 by Zeitgeist Quote
Rue Posted April 6, 2019 Report Posted April 6, 2019 19 hours ago, Owly said: Apparently you haven't read up on how a dpa works. Have you? What have you read? How about you start with the actual dpa law itself in Canada. Read the preconditions, considerations for eligibility and the prohibitions against it. Also read the treaty Canada signed with the OECD in 1999. You think you can pose as an expert? Start with that before you question anyone else. Quote
Owly Posted April 6, 2019 Report Posted April 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, Rue said: Have you? What have you read? How about you start with the actual dpa law itself in Canada. Read the preconditions, considerations for eligibility and the prohibitions against it. Also read the treaty Canada signed with the OECD in 1999. You think you can pose as an expert? Start with that before you question anyone else. Some reading for you: https://www.osler.com/en/blogs/risk/september-2018/deferred-prosecution-agreements-dpas-come-into-force-in-canada Quote
Rue Posted April 6, 2019 Report Posted April 6, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, Owly said: Well let's see who else has a dpa in effect, um, tyhere's the USA, the United Kingdom, and Australia just off the top of my head. I hadn't heard that Russia had one. Please advise. You clearly need to go find out how those dpa's were initiated and what the conditions were for using them. You have not. Not one came about from a retroactive law passed by an elected representative acting on behalf of the accused. Not one was used on a repeat offender like Lavalin is. Not one was used in a case of bribing a foreign government official. Anything else? By the way to look up what dpas are used for in the US. Edited April 6, 2019 by Rue Quote
Rue Posted April 6, 2019 Report Posted April 6, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Owly said: Some reading for you: https://www.osler.com/en/blogs/risk/september-2018/deferred-prosecution-agreements-dpas-come-into-force-in-canada You just proved my point that you have no clue what a dpa can be used for in Canada and think you are an expert based on reading one article. Do better then that. Go read the dpa law. Edited April 6, 2019 by Rue Quote
Owly Posted April 6, 2019 Report Posted April 6, 2019 16 minutes ago, Rue said: You just proved my point that you have no clue what a dpa can be used for in Canada and think you are an expert based on reading one article. Do better then that. Go read the dpa law. Under the U.S. Sentencing Guidelines, a past deferred prosecution will not count toward a defendant's criminal history, Quote
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