Minorities and Crime

[Argus]

So we just got another whining complaint from some leftist activist group - in this case the Ontario Human Rights Commission, about how the police deal with minorities.

The reason I'm posting it here is this is a thing across Canada, and not just with Blacks. We're getting the same sorts of complaints against the RCMP with regard to natives, for example. And we've seen the same thing in Ottawa about Arabs.

But at least with natives you can show the statistics on both sides. In this case, because leftist governments have banned all statistics about minority crime (except natives) all we're left with is the stern denunciation by the OHRC

The report found that although black residents comprised 8.8 per cent of Toronto’s total population, they accounted for 25 per cent of SIU investigations during the time period studied.Black complainants were involved in 28 per cent of all use-of-force investigations, with their representation trending sharply upward as the seriousness of the force used increased. The commission said black people were involved in 36 per cent of police shootings they studied, 61 per cent of police use-of-force cases involving civilian death, and 70 per cent of fatal police shootings.

I have no doubt whatsoever this report will feature prominently on the political panels tonight, with the progressive panels decrying how racist the police are, and I equally have no doubt not one of them will dare to bring up what might be causing the disproportional police response other than racism. Which is that as a group Blacks commit a hugely disproportionate amount of crime, especially street crime and especially violent street crime. The gang shootings in Toronto are mainly Black gangs shooting each other.

And so, instead of addressing the root causes of Black crime there'll be demands the police amend their behaviour, and given the progressive nature of municipal politics and the simpering political cowards who wind up as mayors, you can bet that's what we'll see, along with all sorts of apologies. But I can remember when a chief inspector for one of Toronto's police districts pointed out that while Blacks made up 5% of his district they were responsible for 95% of the crime. Oh, the media didn't like that! Neither did city council! Not that they argued it wasn't true, but just that he should never had said it nor collected any statistics!

The problem with gang shootings is not that police are paying too much attention to young black men. It's that the government is ignoring the socioeconomic reasons behind the crime, poverty and shootings. And it will continue to do so. It will tut-tut at the police, and again demand a crackdown on legal gun owners, but actually doing something? Ah, nope.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/toronto/article-black-residents-of-toronto-more-likely-to-die-during-police/

 

Edited December 10, 2018 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

It's actually a government office...

[Argus]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

It's actually a government office...

I know what it is. And I've been following it for years. It's filled with activists on a mission.

[taxme]

54 minutes ago, Argus said:

So we just got another whining complaint from some leftist activist group - in this case the Ontario Human Rights Commission, about how the police deal with minorities.

The reason I'm posting it here is this is a thing across Canada, and not just with Blacks. We're getting the same sorts of complaints against the RCMP with regard to natives, for example. And we've seen the same thing in Ottawa about Arabs.

But at least with natives you can show the statistics on both sides. In this case, because leftist governments have banned all statistics about minority crime (except natives) all we're left with is the stern denunciation by the OHRC

The report found that although black residents comprised 8.8 per cent of Toronto’s total population, they accounted for 25 per cent of SIU investigations during the time period studied.Black complainants were involved in 28 per cent of all use-of-force investigations, with their representation trending sharply upward as the seriousness of the force used increased. The commission said black people were involved in 36 per cent of police shootings they studied, 61 per cent of police use-of-force cases involving civilian death, and 70 per cent of fatal police shootings.

I have no doubt whatsoever this report will feature prominently on the political panels tonight, with the progressive panels decrying how racist the police are, and I equally have no doubt not one of them will dare to bring up what might be causing the disproportional police response other than racism. Which is that as a group Blacks commit a hugely disproportionate amount of crime, especially street crime and especially violent street crime. The gang shootings in Toronto are mainly Black gangs shooting each other.

And so, instead of addressing the root causes of Black crime there'll be demands the police amend their behaviour, and given the progressive nature of municipal politics and the simpering political cowards who wind up as mayors, you can bet that's what we'll see, along with all sorts of apologies. But I can remember when a chief inspector for one of Toronto's police districts pointed out that while Blacks made up 5% of his district they were responsible for 95% of the crime. Oh, the media didn't like that! Neither did city council! Not that they argued it wasn't true, but just that he should never had said it nor collected any statistics!

The problem with gang shootings is not that police are paying too much attention to young black men. It's that the government is ignoring the socioeconomic reasons behind the crime, poverty and shootings. And it will continue to do so. It will tut-tut at the police, and again demand a crackdown on legal gun owners, but actually doing something? Ah, nope.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/toronto/article-black-residents-of-toronto-more-likely-to-die-during-police/

 

Racist. 

[Rue]

5 minutes ago, taxme said:

Racist. 

Tee hee yeah you are tee hee hee giggle.

[taxme]

2 minutes ago, Rue said:

Tee hee yeah you are tee hee hee giggle.

Hey, if someone wants to be a racist what is it to you anyway? Hey, you are one of them and we all have to put up with you. Tee hee yeah you are tee hee hee double giggle. 

[Bonam]

5 hours ago, Argus said:

And so, instead of addressing the root causes of Black crime there'll be demands the police amend their behaviour, and given the progressive nature of municipal politics and the simpering political cowards who wind up as mayors, you can bet that's what we'll see, along with all sorts of apologies. But I can remember when a chief inspector for one of Toronto's police districts pointed out that while Blacks made up 5% of his district they were responsible for 95% of the crime. Oh, the media didn't like that! Neither did city council! Not that they argued it wasn't true, but just that he should never had said it nor collected any statistics!

Here in Seattle, this has led to de-policing. Police are (rightly) afraid of the possibility that should they interact with a minority person or homeless person (another group beyond criticism here in Seattle) they'll become the target of a witch hunt. So police simply won't get involved. Crime has skyrocketed, homeless encampments are everywhere (worse than the Vancouver downtown eastside now), and if you call the police about property crime they just laugh at you. And the (actual, self-avowed) socialists on the city council just want to double down and push further down the same path. 

Edited December 11, 2018 by Bonam

[Argus]

16 minutes ago, Bonam said:

Here in Seattle, this has led to de-policing. Police are (rightly) afraid of the possibility that should they interact with a minority person or homeless person (another group beyond criticism here in Seattle) they'll become the target of a witch hunt. So police simply won't get involved. Crime has skyrocketed, homeless encampments are everywhere (worse than the Vancouver downtown eastside now), and if you call the police about property crime they just laugh at you. And the (actual, self-avowed) socialists on the city council just want to double down and push further down the same path. 

Then maybe the residents of Seattle should consider voting for people who are more conservative...

[Bonam]

21 minutes ago, Argus said:

Then maybe the residents of Seattle should consider voting for people who are more conservative...

They should. Or not even necessarily more conservative but at least a bit more pragmatic rather than blindly ideological. But they won't. Seattle is a liberal echo-chamber like you wouldn't believe, far more so than any Canadian city. 

I just get to watch the slow motion train wreck since I'm not a US citizen and can't vote anyway. 

[turningrite]

8 hours ago, Argus said:

I have no doubt whatsoever this report will feature prominently on the political panels tonight, with the progressive panels decrying how racist the police are, and I equally have no doubt not one of them will dare to bring up what might be causing the disproportional police response other than racism. Which is that as a group Blacks commit a hugely disproportionate amount of crime, especially street crime and especially violent street crime. The gang shootings in Toronto are mainly Black gangs shooting each other.

And so, instead of addressing the root causes of Black crime there'll be demands the police amend their behaviour, and given the progressive nature of municipal politics and the simpering political cowards who wind up as mayors, you can bet that's what we'll see, along with all sorts of apologies. But I can remember when a chief inspector for one of Toronto's police districts pointed out that while Blacks made up 5% of his district they were responsible for 95% of the crime. Oh, the media didn't like that! Neither did city council! Not that they argued it wasn't true, but just that he should never had said it nor collected any statistics!

The problem with gang shootings is not that police are paying too much attention to young black men. It's that the government is ignoring the socioeconomic reasons behind the crime, poverty and shootings. And it will continue to do so. It will tut-tut at the police, and again demand a crackdown on legal gun owners, but actually doing something? Ah, nope.

 

Few people in Toronto will be surprised by any of this. Even though it's no longer permissible to collect crime statistics based on race, few who pay any attention are unaware of the actual circumstances and I think many will conclude that the Human Rights Commission's portrayal of the problem is one-sided. We only have to watch and read news reports on criminal incidents to make our own assessments. It's too easy for activists and human rights investigators to broadly blame problems on "systemic" racism and bias without taking stock of some of the realities within affected communities, including heavy reliance on public support, unstable families where often only one parent is present, lack of role models, lack of formal education and/or training and antipathy to the broader population and the police. These problems won't be easily resolved. In the meantime, I think most people trust the police but want to ensure that police officers are held accountable where necessary. 

Edited December 11, 2018 by turningrite

[scribblet]

The results were a foregone conclusion, does the report tell us why the police are called out in the first place,  does it mention the black on black gun violence in Toronto?   

[Rue]

1 minute ago, scribblet said:

The results were a foregone conclusion, does the report tell us why the police are called out in the first place,  does it mention the black on black gun violence in Toronto?   

Of course not. Its inflammatory. Its pat.  It actually provides an incomplete, pat, trivialization and over simplification, black and white for simpleton explanation.

You want a proper analysis, that would require critical thinking, quantitative analysis, a thorough review of socio-economic  variables, specific behaviour, specific behaviour patterns prevalent in specific communities,  references to the cause and effects of drugs, unemployment, specific cultural values or behaviours, things that would be considered politically incorrect.

There is no doubt more black men get stopped and arrested on the streets in Toronto. To stop right there and simply say its only because they are black is bullshit. It actually apologizes for and rationalizes criminal behaviour using skin colour as a shield to justify it. It doesn't go the next steps and ask why, why the patterns within certain communities and not others. When it has, and people have asked, why do certain communities have more failures than others in certain areas that would make their communities less susceptible to social and economic failures its labelled racist.

Its frustrating for blacks as much as it is whites when you see serious complex issues in their communities simplified as "racism" by police. It is as insulting to them as it is anyone else and its a device politically correct liberals (small L) use to avoid dealing with the deeper issues of cause and effect that won't relieve their knee jerk guilt feelings.

Its easier for liberal guilt types to blame the police than themselves but if they want to claim its racism, then necessarily the police are only one part of that racism and these small L liberals have to take responsibility for being the racists that created the racist system including the racist police, racist teachers, racist doctors, racist this racist that.

 

 

 

 

[turningrite]

4 hours ago, Rue said:

You want a proper analysis, that would require critical thinking, quantitative analysis, a thorough review of socio-economic  variables, specific behaviour, specific behaviour patterns prevalent in specific communities,  references to the cause and effects of drugs, unemployment, specific cultural values or behaviours, things that would be considered politically incorrect.

Its easier for liberal guilt types to blame the police than themselves but if they want to claim its racism, then necessarily the police are only one part of that racism and these small L liberals have to take responsibility for being the racists that created the racist system including the racist police, racist teachers, racist doctors, racist this racist that.

 

The points you raise are illustrative of a broader problem with "progressive" analysis, which is geared more to confirming pre-existing assumptions than to delineating objectively demonstrable explanations for statistical differences and outcomes. Jordan Peterson has explained how progressive analysis simplifies and misrepresents reasons for the discrepancy between male and female incomes. But progressivism's objectivity deficit is now so vast that it's difficult to imagine how we might right the ship's course.

I read an article in this morning's Toronto Star ('Racism persists in job market, study says') that bemoans the income differential between female workers of colour and white male workers. Once again, "racism" is the go-to explanation even though there are likely many contributing factors, including, well, gender, language barriers, lack of prior labour market attachment, particularly for new or recent immigrants, and lack of Canadian/Western education and/or credentials. Further, cultural issues including the fact that many immigrant women of colour often belong to communities that prefer male breadwinners and/or restrict women to participating in certain occupations, likely factor into any applicable statistical difference.

Truly valid statistical analysis requires the comparison of otherwise largely equal entities, isolating the variable for which one is testing. Thus, to determine if racism is a statistically significant barrier faced by women of colour, the incomes of these women should be compared with the incomes of white women with similar languistic, educational, labour market and residency characteristics. To ascribe statistical differences mainly to racism in the absence of valid statistical and academic rigour amounts to misleading propagandizing. But we've come to raise our eyebrows when such analyses are trotted out as if fact rather than confront the often deeply biased premises underlying them. We wouldn't want to offend anyone, right?

Edited December 11, 2018 by turningrite

[Rue]

By the way of course I agree with those who say there is a serious issue with blacks in our criminal legal system which causes far more of them to be arrested, charged, sentenced. I just find throwing the term "racist" at it closes down the inquiry and needed analysis to determine what is causing it. I hate isms and ists. They shut down dialogue and allow convenient labels to prevent analysis. I did read the report. Its not as bad as some by the way. I have my own issues with the SIU who have an inherent bias caused by a syndrome generated by getting an illusion of understanding from being able to second guess after the fact. Their perspective is not the same as a police officer's in the real instant moment. Its a huge difference in perception that causes different perspectives. 

SIU are not in my opinion properly trained to understand that inherent phenomenological difference of observing after the fact and how that   distorts what  they analyze.

Hindsight is a huge distortion causing an illusion of knowing better.

Police have issues of course with blacks and everyone. How could they not? It comes with the job. Any enforcement occupation will inevitably abuse, misuse, underuse, unfairly use power. Bias, corruption, are inherent human factors....just don't stop with labels like racist. That won't provide solutions, just rationalization to engage in the same bad behaviours in reverse. Too many people are looking to excuse their own bad behavior by justifying it as a reaction to someone else's bad behavior. That won't make things better, just worse. Provide constructive suggestions that bring both sides together, not labels to entrench their differences.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Rue

[Centerpiece]

The missing statistic is what percentage of violent interactions were as a result of responding to a call. The media - especially The Star and the CBC - make it seem like police are stopping Black people and instigating violence where none should exist. I think that's bull. If Police receive a call - they respond - not knowing what colour the person might be. It's their job to uphold the law. By the way, if the Black community is 20 times more likely to be shot by police - what's an acceptable ratio - 15 times - 10 times? Any dumbo can see there's a problem that goes beyond numbers. The police often come into conflict with blacks in violent circumstances because of issues of poverty, social exclusion and inequality - issues that they didn’t create and can’t solve. Fatherless youth is not a police problem. And remember - police officers ultimately aren’t social workers - their job is to enforce the law.

[Argus]

1 minute ago, Centerpiece said:

The missing statistic is what percentage of violent interactions were as a result of responding to a call. The media - especially The Star and the CBC - make it seem like police are stopping Black people and instigating violence where none should exist. I think that's bull. If Police receive a call - they respond - not knowing what colour the person might be. It's their job to uphold the law. By the way, if the Black community is 20 times more likely to be shot by police - what's an acceptable ratio - 15 times - 10 times? Any dumbo can see there's a problem that goes beyond numbers. The police often come into conflict with blacks in violent circumstances because of issues of poverty, social exclusion and inequality - issues that they didn’t create and can’t solve. Fatherless youth is not a police problem. And remember - police officers ultimately aren’t social workers - their job is to enforce the law.

It's like saying "You know what, you can see that men are far more likely to be arrested by police, and subjected to use of force, than women. Clearly this is a result of sexism against men! Men should not be arrested any more often than women are!"

[Bonam]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

It's like saying "You know what, you can see that men are far more likely to be arrested by police, and subjected to use of force, than women. Clearly this is a result of sexism against men! Men should not be arrested any more often than women are!"

That said, men also receive harsher sentences for the same crimes, which arguably IS because of sexism against men. 

[Argus]

15 minutes ago, Bonam said:

That said, men also receive harsher sentences for the same crimes, which arguably IS because of sexism against men. 

Not so much 'against' men as 'for' women. Women are given every benefit of doubt, and much of what they do is simply attributed to the bad influence of some nasty old man. Which is why Bernardo is rotting in a cell while Homolka is out having fun and enjoying her life.

[cannuck]

The cause?  Simple, just review the "most wanted" by RCMP list - http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/wanted and the Toronto version:  http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/homicide/mostwanted.php

Now, the cause should be very obvious: piss poor screening of immigrants for more than just the last few years.

[dialamah]

35 minutes ago, Argus said:

It's like saying "You know what, you can see that men are far more likely to be arrested by police, and subjected to use of force, than women. Clearly this is a result of sexism against men! Men should not be arrested any more often than women are!"

Men are more likely to be charged than women for similar crimes.   Men are also more likely  be given longer sentences than women for similar crimes.  Which is wrong, in my opinion:  why should anyone be prosecuted and sentenced based on who they are rather than what they did?

[eyeball]

12 hours ago, scribblet said:

The results were a foregone conclusion,

Yep, just like the sentiments in this thread. The most universal being that everything is the left's fault.

Will you people either please put up or shut up.

[scribblet]

6 hours ago, eyeball said:

Yep, just like the sentiments in this thread. The most universal being that everything is the left's fault.

Will you people either please put up or shut up.

I would say the same to you, quid pro quo and all

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, scribblet said:

I would say the same to you, quid pro quo and all

But according to you we have put up, in this case we put up a commission on human rights.  All you've put up is wah the left.  In every case no matter what the issue one way or another the left is what's at fault.  Its been like this for generations and it doesn't look like anything is ever going to change.  How ironic.

[Hates politicians]

On 12/11/2018 at 10:07 AM, Rue said:

Of course not. Its inflammatory. Its pat.  It actually provides an incomplete, pat, trivialization and over simplification, black and white for simpleton explanation.

You want a proper analysis, that would require critical thinking, quantitative analysis, a thorough review of socio-economic  variables, specific behaviour, specific behaviour patterns prevalent in specific communities,  references to the cause and effects of drugs, unemployment, specific cultural values or behaviours, things that would be considered politically incorrect.

There is no doubt more black men get stopped and arrested on the streets in Toronto. To stop right there and simply say its only because they are black is bullshit. It actually apologizes for and rationalizes criminal behaviour using skin colour as a shield to justify it. It doesn't go the next steps and ask why, why the patterns within certain communities and not others. When it has, and people have asked, why do certain communities have more failures than others in certain areas that would make their communities less susceptible to social and economic failures its labelled racist.

Its frustrating for blacks as much as it is whites when you see serious complex issues in their communities simplified as "racism" by police. It is as insulting to them as it is anyone else and its a device politically correct liberals (small L) use to avoid dealing with the deeper issues of cause and effect that won't relieve their knee jerk guilt feelings.

Its easier for liberal guilt types to blame the police than themselves but if they want to claim its racism, then necessarily the police are only one part of that racism and these small L liberals have to take responsibility for being the racists that created the racist system including the racist police, racist teachers, racist doctors, racist this racist that.

 

 

 

 

Because they're not civilized. As the old saying goes you can take the bunny out of the jungle but you can't take the jungle out of the bunny

[Rue]

Let me say we all agree there are problems in certain ethnic communities with police. It doesn't make all blacks criminals, it doesn't make all police racist. Surely we all agree on that. Surely we all agree that using negative stereotypes against an entire category of people whether it be based on their chosen profession, skin colour, religion, ethnicity, gender, et al, is not going to help any of us if we want to make sure our laws are enforced fairly. 

When we get into such debates and I say we as in me too, all of us necessarily generalize when discussing the issues. Sometimes its intentionally negative, sometimes its only meant for discussion purposes and not intended to label  negatively.

I do know some things from my days in the criminal legal system and police will always be candid about it and admit it:

1-its difficult for them to know how to deal with mentally ill people out of control-there is no one size fits all approach

2-its difficult for them to know how to deal with people on the streets, in car stops, at any time-there is no one size fits all approach

3-sometimes they are too lenient, some times to physically aggressive, sometimes orally aggressive.

I am not excusing excess violence or abuse. I am saying when you deal with people on the front lines, whether you are a police officer, social worker, teacher, nurse, doctor, complaints taker, you are going to be excused to a lot of abuse and it to expect you to react perfectly at all times is naïve. People are not robots and all the training in the world can not guarantee they will act the same way every time.

In fact with police, if they were to use a one size fits all approach to situations, they can die. They have to ultimately, listen to their gut instinct to stay alive in certain situations and its easy in hindsight to say they were wrong. Those of us after the fact did not have our adrenalin at critical levels, our fight or flight response and blood pressure triggered so we see things far differently after the fact without our bodies on high alert.

So what I am arguing is every time we discuss this issue it becomes all or nothing-either the police are racist, or blacks are responsible for their excessive arrest and detention treatment because they commit more crimes. Neither is accurate.

Fact-blacks are far more likely to be stopped, questioned and arrested by police than any other group of people. That pattern is there so because of that pattern, people will automatically infer that means racism. If a police officer is Asian or white or non black, they will be less likely to distinguish physically from one black man to another. Does that make them racist?

Is a black police officer unable to tell between two white guys or two Asian guys racist because they have more trouble differentiating their facial features than with fellow blacks?

It is human nature to make more mistakes distinguishing people with different facial features the more different they are than your own reflection. That is an inherent primal behaviour tying back to us being homo sapiens, a type of Ape or primate. Simeons, apes, such as we humans, define by pack marks. We define our packs by how similar their fur pattern and colour is. Only today with no hair, we look to skin colour, nose shape, hair texture. So we still are programmed to feel endangered by those whose pack features are different, because not so long ago, packs competed against each other in the same hunting grounds or for the same mates and we were violent, and even at times cannibalistic about it.

Have we progressed past that in evolution? Certainly not and so if I was an alien of course I would not introduce myself to humans. We fight over our secondary genetic characteristics differences how the hell would we handle an alien...

On this issue I want facts. I want statistics and patterns of behaviour measured with objective not subjective methodology distorted by political or other bias that selects only things it wants to see. I also want direct correlations between cause and effect of behaviour not just assumptions because there is a pattern of repeat behaviour that exists. Even if a pattern of behaviour repeats, it does not in itself explain the cause and effect of it as so many assume  it does.

For example, reason blacks are far more likely to be stopped, arrested, detained, have criminal records which have been followed up with by examining fully cause and effect are:

1-they are more likely to be unemployed and therefore be more prominent to be on streets and in public places than those working at all hours of the day;

2-non black police officers answering descriptions of "suspects" have difficulty differentiating blacks from one another as do all humans when looking at people whose facial characteristics are different than their own;

3-police see as do doctors, teachers, nurses, social workers, repeating behaviour in the black communities and whether those doctors, teachers, nurses or social workers are white, black, Asian, they all because of those experiences start to generalize about what they see and who is more likely to do it, and then their repeat exposure to repeat patterns of behaviour with the same group, enforces their bias.

Saying 1-3 automatically  are not relevant and the above are just racist assumptions won't help. The fact is when we do look at racial profiling of statistics, at the very bottom of the scale are Jews, Japanese but at the other end of the scale by far are blacks, then aboriginals.

Again does that mean because Japanese have such low crime rates, there is no racism towards them, ditto Jews? Of course not. 

Another well known cause and effect phenomena in the black community for their high crime rates is as follows:

1-because they are more likely to be out in public from being unemployed, they are far more likely to encounter police in public;

2-because those encounters are much higher, there is a higher rate of encounters becoming conflicted leading to detentions and  arrests and hostile reactions to both;

3-because of that, more blacks are arrested and charged and because they have to wait in jail for a bail hearing, when they go for bail after a delay to get a legal aid lawyer, that legal aid lawyer swamped with cases says-" plead guilty with time served and you are out...however if you plead not guilty, since you can't afford bail, they probably won't release you until trial under your own recognizance since you are not working (have ties to the community), so you could wait weeks for trial in jail, even if innocent.."-so because of that more blacks plead guilty even though they might not have actually been guilty of anything and so they now have criminal records-because of that the next time they are stopped on the street, the police see they have a police record and are hanging on the streets, and so it reinforces the impression of the police they may be up to no good-thus the higher rate of stopping blacks-its a vicious cycle.

In the real world, if police know and are connected to communities, they stop and shake down blacks they know are in gangs. The gangbangers know why they are stopped. They are stopped because they operate in communities terrorizing other blacks not just whites. The police shake them down on behalf of all citizens who are not gangbangers to keep them moving. They don't want one gang member in another's turf triggering a war.

Black community members want police protecting them from gangbangers period. The people who defend gangbangers who are black as victims of racism, I can tell you are not and have never been a majority of blacks nor represent the majority of them. In fact they are not popular in black communities, but black people who speak out against them run the risk of being called sell outs so they are careful in how they choose their words so as to not trigger black on black fighting that could detract from legitimate concerns about inappropriate policing.

Its complicated. Its  far to complex to call racism. If it was only a matter of skin colour then black police officers would never arrest blacks ever.

Here is what I can tell you are positive solutions that have worked to reduce friction between any community and police not just blacks:

1-having police officers volunteer to live in the neighbourhoods they police; (very difficult to do, it takes a very dedicated officer to want to do that and have his off duty hours constantly challenged helping the community)

2-having police officers work as coaches in organized recreation and sports activities at community centres, i.e., play basketball, hockey, baseball with youth in those communities where the youth have negative interactions with the police;

4-having police meet with community members at cultural, public events, in schools, community centres to interact and talk and share experiences;

5-using volunteers with therapy-comfort dogs at police stations or at trauma situations;

6-outreach to members of communities most likely to encounter police in negative situations to explain:

a-when stopped and asked questions do not take it personally

b-please carry and be willing to show i.d.

c-do not swear, yell, refuse to answer questions, lecture the police about the law or engage in hostile or physical behaviour that escalates the situation;

d-address the officer as Sir, Office, PC, Constable and tell them your first name

e-smile and keep your hands out of your pockets

f-stay calm.

In regards to police training, they can and are being asked to attend seminars on how to deal with the mentally ill, people of different ethnic communities and it has reduced conflicts.

As well outreach programs dealing with myths associated with policing are an excellent tool., because the vast majority of people watch t.v. which presents false myths about police and policing they then use to falsely assume certain behaviour.

Welcoming police at public events of all kinds, churches, synagogues, mosques, houses  of worship to pray and/or speak and me welcomed congregants also has had enormous benefit.

The Los Angeles Police Department noticed benefits from posting mini police stations in large hospitals.

Mini police stations in malls, public areas is very beneficial for relations.

Believe it or not the most effective ways to encourage positive police interaction have been:

1-police walking the beat or riding bicycles and stopping to talk to people;

2-police officers on horseback;

3-police officers with comfort dogs.

In the latter 2 situations, animals have provided absolutely incredible  benefit in bridging the gap between public and police.

This one you will find of interest-teaching police officers to smile and nod hello. That in itself is powerful.

So I focus on what works. Calling people racist frustrates me. It actually empowers racists or abusive people as victims.

Police hate when neo Nazis or anti police, extremists on other side claim to speak about them. They do not welcome neo Nazi support any more than they appreciate blanket condemnation from alleged progressive social groups.

The fiasco in Toronto with the gay pride parade interestingly didn't start with police. It started with "Zionist Jews" and "Israel existing as a Jewish state" then moved on to police. Specific interest groups hijacked gay pride for their own agendas.

Unfortunately the media, provides platforms for splinter minority groups lending them the appearance of having wide spread and far reaching authority in their communities when they do not ignoring the more moderate groups who won't grandstand and seek media attention to avoid sensationalizing or inciting inflammatory perceptions which the media can easily do.

For years the media portrayed the late Dudley Laws as a spokesperson for the black community against police. His group never amounted to more than 40 individuals. Mr. Laws who is now passed away admitted to illegally y smuggling people into Canada. Some members of his community also claim he was a pimp at one point  and did other activities that were criminal in his community  against blacks and  had a vested agenda against police.

There are certain lawyers who claim/ed represent the black community but did not and only spoke for themselves and their own opinions.

The current police chief was called by a fellow competitor for his job who was also black very unflattering terms that if said by a white candidate who competed against him, would have been considered racist.

The current police chief has been roasted for all problems with blacks and the police by blacks which is racist for them to do. The fact he is black does not mean as some of them assume, he must automatically do what they want simply because he is also black. All minority police officers face that in their communities-they are expected to act differently and favourably to people in their own communities and when they do not they have their reputations attacked.

I know  black men unfairly arrested or stopped. I know black men shaken down. I know abusive cops. I know good cops. All I know is I do not know. Every situation is different.

I do know the system has problems but I also know it take a hell of a lot of time to try improve any system of public interaction.