The Great Immigration Debate

ZavHoz · July 23, 2018

4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Neither do I...was born in the United States.

No need for a sob story to gain PR or citizenship. No need to cross a border illegally.

All humans are from Africa....let's all "go home" if it is so important.

...except Jamaicans should go to China.

So, you crossed the border :lol: Immigrant!!! F///n wellfare abuser!!!!!! (according to beliefs of other people here)

Why did you come to the US, my poor child of slaves? (I guess from Canada) And why do you think that your b... ass is better than Jamaican? (I would prefer Jamaican though)

Tell us your sob story!!!

bush_cheney2004 · July 23, 2018

7 minutes ago, ZavHoz said:

So, you crossed the border Immigrant!!! F///n wellfare abuser!!!!!! (according to beliefs of other people here)

No...I DID NOT cross the border.

Deport all illegals...and their sob stories.

taxme · July 23, 2018

1 hour ago, ZavHoz said:

So, you crossed the border Immigrant!!! F///n wellfare abuser!!!!!! (according to beliefs of other people here)

Why did you come to the US, my poor child of slaves? (I guess from Canada) And why do you think that your b... ass is better than Jamaican? (I would prefer Jamaican though)

Tell us your sob story!!!

Maybe you can tell us why you keep using the "f" word in every reply you make? Curious.

Argus · July 23, 2018

5 hours ago, ZavHoz said:

I told you before, but you didn't listen. You can bring here only children and parents. Your brothers and sisters will get only 15 extra points in Express Entry system for having relatives in Canada and will have to immigrate on the same grounds as everyone else. I'm not talking about uncles and nieses, they have no adventage at all.

I told you before, but you don't listen. Express entry is NOT the entirety of the immigration system. It ONLY applies to skilled workers. And THEIR kids and spouses come in without needing any points.

Argus · July 23, 2018

5 hours ago, ZavHoz said:

A dead man had a father from Syria. And that dead man created Apple, btw.

So what? Again, your 'logic' seems to be 'well, since there was this one famous guy who had a father who was Syrian then we should be bringing in more Syrians!"

BTW, Jobs was not raised by his father, who did not marry his mother. He was raised by adoptive parents.

Argus · July 23, 2018

5 hours ago, ZavHoz said:

Specially for Argus, my extremely intelectual friend

For a moment let's suppose that I agreed with you that muslims are doing worse than other immigrants.

It is not MY conclusion. It is in a government report from Immigration Canada. Immigrants from the ME region fare poorly.

Quote

Every such conclusion has to lead us to some sort of actions. So, what would these actions be? (explanation only for intelectuals like Argus, it is obvious to the others )

We would have to restrict somehow the inflow of muslim immigrants. Is it logical?

Yup. I'm all for it.

Quote

Ancient Romans could do that. They could detect a Christian lol That's why they destroy Christianity. What? Do we have Christians still? And Jews? Oh, shiii…

Ancient Romans did not rule the entire world. Nor could they detect Christians. But we don't need to 'detect' Muslims anyway. We should give preference to geographical areas of the world which produce the most economically successful immigrants, and shy away from those geographical areas which produce the least economically successful immigrants. That means British but not Russians. It means Filipinos, but not Chinese. It means Indians but not Arabs.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Argus

eyeball · July 24, 2018

11 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

All humans are ultimately from Africa.

More to the point we're from Earth.

Africa was merely from Pangea.

paxamericana · July 24, 2018

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

More to the point we're from Earth.

Africa was merely from Pangea.

Globalist!

eyeball · July 24, 2018

6 hours ago, paxamericana said:

Globalist!

Well yeah, we don't live on a cube.

paxamericana · July 24, 2018

Looks like all the globalist liberal elites are complaining about Trump's immigration policy. They're complaining that they'll have to pay Americans more.

"But President Donald Trump has cracked down on the program. His administration has accused companies like Infosys of flooding the United States with cheap foreign labor.

Trump's policies on immigration have been criticized by several prominent industry leaders, including Google's (GOOGL) Eric Schmidt and Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi.

"

""An increase in anti-outsourcing sentiments in certain countries in which we operate, including the United States, United Kingdom, European Union and Australia have led and may in the future lead to the enactment of restrictive legislations," the company said in a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission last week."

https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/23/technology/infosys-visas-immigration-warning/index.html

bush_cheney2004 · July 24, 2018

2 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

Looks like all the globalist liberal elites are complaining about Trump's immigration policy. They're complaining that they'll have to pay Americans more.

Good....legal and illegal immigrants drive American wages down. Work visas are abused and U.S. workers have to train the scabs before being laid off.

paxamericana · July 24, 2018

9 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Good....legal and illegal immigrants drive American wages down. Work visas are abused and U.S. workers have to train the scabs before being laid off.

yup, all for corporate profit, here's a novel idea why don't they pay their workers more. Stop giving their profit to the top 1 percent.

turningrite · July 24, 2018

17 hours ago, Argus said:

I told you before, but you don't listen. Express entry is NOT the entirety of the immigration system. It ONLY applies to skilled workers. And THEIR kids and spouses come in without needing any points.

I've been reading your posts on this topic and I have to say that I agree with you. The merits of our current immigration policies, including our points system, are generally overstated and the government does very little to track the success (or failure) of those who do arrive. The Fraser Institute has concluded that the most recent generation of immigrants is costing this country's taxpayers tens of billions of dollars a year when calculating social costs paid out less taxes paid by this cohort. Australia's Productivity Commission (Don't you wish we had one of those!) recently examined that country's similar (to our) large-scale immigration program and in a 2016 report exploded some myths, in particular by concluding that large scale immigration doesn't resolve longer-term demographic issues, however may if properly calibrated and administered help to offset shorter-term labor market deficiencies and population trends. It recommended that Australia's system be adjusted to more accurately and fully meet specific labor market needs, de-emphasize family reunification and tighten access to government-funded benefits for non-refugees. In particular, it recommended that in selecting immigrants greater emphasis be placed on age (i.e. youth), demonstrable and useful skills and English-language capabilities. Seems pretty rational to me. We need to do better as well by adjusting our priorities. If Australia can do it, why can't we?

https://www.pc.gov.au/inquiries/completed/migrant-intake/report

Goddess · July 24, 2018

5 minutes ago, turningrite said:

the government does very little to track the success (or failure) of those who do arrive.

https://debatepost.com/2018/07/20/trudeau-liberals-lost-50000-refugees/

dialamah · July 24, 2018

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

https://debatepost.com/2018/07/20/trudeau-liberals-lost-50000-refugees/

Here's a better link. Seems not so much that they're lost, but that we (the public) aren't being updated. The columnist opines it's because they are doing so poorly.

capricorn · July 24, 2018

On 7/23/2018 at 1:48 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

Go to China and see how much immigrant love is there...or maybe Japan !

Don't know about China, but Japan has a very low crime rate and immigrant assimilation is very high. I'm guessing it's because they are picky about who they accept as immigrants.

paxamericana · July 24, 2018

19 minutes ago, capricorn said:

Don't know about China, but Japan has a very low crime rate and immigrant assimilation is very high. I'm guessing it's because they are picky about who they accept as immigrants.

Actually the Japanese culture is to assimilate not stand out. It's the reverse of what we have here in the US. Over there its considered rude or shameful to be different from everyone else.

In fact the first thing i did when i landed at Narita airport is said, sorry I am American...in japanese and then proceeded to ask for directions. They immediate gave me a big smile knowing full well of what i meant.

Edited July 24, 2018 by paxamericana

BuzzKillington · July 24, 2018

"In my time several decades ago there was no massive immigration going on like it is today."

Not so much the massive immigration, but the massive fiscal deficits that taxpayers bear to bring in immigrants. These are NOT your father's immigrants - they didn't even have welfare when my father came to this country. The welfare system was: If you want to eat, you have to work. No free rides. No free housing, no health care, no English classes, no nothing. Welcome to Canada, work hard or get the hell out. But those hardy days are long past.

The Frasier Institutes estimates immigration costs Canadian taxpayers upwards of $20 billion per year in social programs over taxes paid.

This figure is probably lowballing it for reasons of political correctness. But of course in exchange we get all that wonderful "cultural enrichment" like the Toronto gunman. So there's that.

dialamah · July 24, 2018

1 hour ago, BuzzKillington said:

This figure is probably lowballing it for reasons of political correctness. But of course in exchange we get all that wonderful "cultural enrichment" like the Toronto gunman. So there's that.

If its the Fraser Institute its probably highballing the figure for political partisanship reasons, giving the Conservatives an anti-Liberal talking point.

Edited July 24, 2018 by dialamah

Argus · July 24, 2018

36 minutes ago, dialamah said:

If its the Fraser Institute its probably highballing the figure for political partisanship reasons, giving the Conservatives an anti-Liberal talking point.

Too bad the government didnt't put out proper data on costs of things like the immigration and refugee system, huh?

ZavHoz · August 30, 2018

On 7/24/2018 at 9:29 AM, paxamericana said:

Looks like all the globalist liberal elites are complaining about Trump's immigration policy. They're complaining that they'll have to pay Americans more.

"But President Donald Trump has cracked down on the program. His administration has accused companies like Infosys of flooding the United States with cheap foreign labor.

Trump's policies on immigration have been criticized by several prominent industry leaders, including Google's (GOOGL) Eric Schmidt and Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi.

"

""An increase in anti-outsourcing sentiments in certain countries in which we operate, including the United States, United Kingdom, European Union and Australia have led and may in the future lead to the enactment of restrictive legislations," the company said in a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission last week."

https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/23/technology/infosys-visas-immigration-warning/index.html

Why do you think that liberals don't like trump's immigtation reform?

If there is something I can agree with trump, this is that US immigration system SUCKS.

I totally agree with trump that the US needs a merit based system like in Canada or Australia.

ZavHoz · August 30, 2018

On 7/24/2018 at 9:33 AM, bush_cheney2004 said:

Good....legal and illegal immigrants drive American wages down. Work visas are abused and U.S. workers have to train the scabs before being laid off.

Do you know why there are so many illegal immigrants in the US?

Small hint: 90% of Express Entry immigrants live in Canada. So.... Think.... Yep. It's not a system of immigration. It's a system of legalization.

Edited August 30, 2018 by ZavHoz

ZavHoz · August 30, 2018

On 7/24/2018 at 11:52 AM, turningrite said:

I've been reading your posts on this topic and I have to say that I agree with you. The merits of our current immigration policies, including our points system, are generally overstated and the government does very little to track the success (or failure) of those who do arrive. The Fraser Institute has concluded that the most recent generation of immigrants is costing this country's taxpayers tens of billions of dollars a year when calculating social costs paid out less taxes paid by this cohort.

https://www.pc.gov.au/inquiries/completed/migrant-intake/report

:lol:

If we calculate how much taxes immigrants' babies pay in comparison to expenses, then...

Another "smart" guy here? :rolleyes:

Or by the most recent generation of immigrants you mean guys who arrived in 1940? Then why the fuck you are talking about merit based system?

All other immigrants haven't actually died yet. So, they are still paying, relax and stop posting bs...

ZavHoz · August 30, 2018

On 7/24/2018 at 2:38 PM, paxamericana said:

Actually the Japanese culture is to assimilate not stand out. It's the reverse of what we have here in the US. Over there its considered rude or shameful to be different from everyone else.

In fact the first thing i did when i landed at Narita airport is said, sorry I am American...in japanese and then proceeded to ask for directions. They immediate gave me a big smile knowing full well of what i meant.

99% of Japan population are Japanese. That's all you need to know... And it's aging. Wait a decade and see yourself where they will be...

Would you like to immigrate to Japan? I bet no. And this is their problem (economical, demographical), but in your case they may be lucky.

Did you say sorry for Perl Harbor? I'm sure they understood that you're an extremely bright person! :lol: Next time you visit Germany, say sorry for hitler... cool guy he was... artist...lol

ZavHoz · August 30, 2018

On 7/24/2018 at 3:46 PM, BuzzKillington said:

"In my time several decades ago there was no massive immigration going on like it is today."

Not so much the massive immigration, but the massive fiscal deficits that taxpayers bear to bring in immigrants. These are NOT your father's immigrants - they didn't even have welfare when my father came to this country. The welfare system was: If you want to eat, you have to work. No free rides. No free housing, no health care, no English classes, no nothing. Welcome to Canada, work hard or get the hell out. But those hardy days are long past.

The Frasier Institutes estimates immigration costs Canadian taxpayers upwards of $20 billion per year in social programs over taxes paid.

This figure is probably lowballing it for reasons of political correctness. But of course in exchange we get all that wonderful "cultural enrichment" like the Toronto gunman. So there's that.

I'm very sorry that your father chose Canada as his and yours new home. He should have stayed where he came from, so that he wouldn't have caused "cultural enrichment" here.