Taking children from their mothers. Abomination

[paxamericana]

2 hours ago, Jimwd said:

Yea that was an information filled comment with credibility .

Jimmm I found you a comrade....https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2018/06/19/commie-cadet-sends-vulgar-message-on-his-way-out-of-the-army/

[betsy]

10 hours ago, scribblet said:

Well, they did admit on the other forum that they are only here to troll.

“In March of 1993, The United States Supreme Court issued a ruling in Flores vs Reno. (Yes, “That” Reno. Janet Reno, Bill Clinton’s first Attorney General who ordered that young Elian Gonzalez be torn from his parents arms while hiding in a Miami closet. You might remember the iconic photograph.)

 

The Court decided that minors could not be incarcerated with the adults accompanying them across the United States border illegally. The decision was the result of a long dispute in how to best care for these children while the adults were detained for criminal proceedings.

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/91-905.ZS.html

Young Elan.  Thanks for reminding me about that.

[betsy]

12 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

Yeah, and Trump sucked up to Duterte because he seems to like murderous dictators too. The USA may have not been obligated to listen to Trudeau, but Trump sure changed his position quickly after Justin said it was wrong.

That's diplomacy, man.  The Philippines is an important, location-strategic ally.  The USA will want to maintain easy access to it, if need be.

Meanwhile......Justin's sucking up to be accepted in the Security Council - to be with human rights violators! 

He has no credibility wagging his fingers into someone's face!    How hypocritical and self-righteous is that?

  No wonder he was told by Duterte to "F*** Off!"   And, to "lay off with his b***s**t!"

Edited June 21, 2018 by betsy

[BubberMiley]

If a POS like Duterte doesn't like Trudeau, then Trudeau is doing something right.

[BubberMiley]

But the Phillipines is a key location, but it is easily manipulated because it depends entirely on western charity to survive. No western leader (But Trump) would suck up to garbage like Duterte because they can pull his strings in more effective ways economically. If Canada suddenly restricted Canadian money going back there, Duterte would be on his knees with Trudeau in a second. 

[BubberMiley]

14 hours ago, scribblet said:

Well, they did admit on the other forum that they are only here to troll.

“In March of 1993, The United States Supreme Court issued a ruling in Flores vs Reno. (Yes, “That” Reno. Janet Reno, Bill Clinton’s first Attorney General who ordered that young Elian Gonzalez be torn from his parents arms while hiding in a Miami closet. You might remember the iconic photograph.)

 

The Court decided that minors could not be incarcerated with the adults accompanying them across the United States border illegally. The decision was the result of a long dispute in how to best care for these children while the adults were detained for criminal proceedings.

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/91-905.ZS.html

 When all you can provide is isolated incidents from years ago, you only support my point that family separation was never before a systemic policy to be used on a broad scale as a deterrent. But by continually trying to say those isolated incidents are the same as a broad across-the-board policy, you're once again showing that you try to misrepresent the facts in order to get your point across. You then freak out and say I'm trolling because I am pointing out this difference, but you just feel that way because you know I'm right and you have no other way to counter my point. 

If previous administrations had a similar widespread policy, as you keep saying, show me and I'll admit I was wrong. But you won't do that. Instead you will continue to misrepresent the issue and make personal attacks at people who tell you he truth.

[scribblet]

I haven't made any personal attacks on you, and you are just here to troll as was admitted on the other forum.  However, it was more than isolated incidents whether you like it or not. 

[BubberMiley]

18 minutes ago, scribblet said:

I haven't made any personal attacks on you, and you are just here to troll as was admitted on the other forum.  However, it was more than isolated incidents whether you like it or not. 

You just called me a dickhead (would you like to see the screenshot?). Now you say you never did and make up more BS about how I said somewhere I was going to come here to troll? Rather than make stuff up about me, you should show it was a widespread policy and not isolated incidents. If something has made you believe this, why can't you share with us? Quit with the personal attacks and discuss the issues and back up your points with verifiable facts. 

[scribblet]

12 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

You just called me a dickhead (would you like to see the screenshot?).

I called you that in a status update because you have been trolling in a very dick head like manner so get over that one.   In fact, you are going on ignore because you are as admitted on the other place, just trolling, you got the response you wanted so you could take a screen shot and use it to your advantage.   I fell for the trolling and responded so quit being a dickhead.   I've posted a number of links to which others have responded, you obviously didn't read them, so suck it up buttercup, your going on ignore.

Edited June 21, 2018 by scribblet

[scribblet]

CHUCK SCHUMER: "Illegal immigration is wrong--plain and simple. Until the American people are convinced that we will stop future flows of illegal immigration, we will make no progress on dealing with the millions of illegal immigrants who are here now." (2009) What changed?

 

This 2017 report details widespread use of family separation as a matter of policy pre-Trump. It is  willful ignorance to pretend that this was not a regular feature of U.S .immigration policy before Trump.

https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/KIND%20-%20Betraying%20Family%20Values.pdf …

 

 

Edited June 21, 2018 by scribblet

[BubberMiley]

2 hours ago, scribblet said:

I called you that in a status update because you have been trolling in a very dick head like manner so get over that one.   In fact, you are going on ignore because you are as admitted on the other place, just trolling, you got the response you wanted so you could take a screen shot and use it to your advantage.   I fell for the trolling and responded so quit being a dickhead.   I've posted a number of links to which others have responded, you obviously didn't read them, so suck it up buttercup, your going on ignore.

So when you immediately denied making personal attacks after making one and deleting it, you were just trying to misrepresent what happened, just as you continue to do in saying that I "admitted on the other place to trolling"? (I even double-checked to be sure, but I never said anything remotely like what you say I said. Way to go. More misrepresentations.)

I read your links, which referenced isolated incidents, like the Elan of Cuba case. Once again, it was not a policy of previous administrations to create a deterrent to those who might think to enter the U.S. illegally by taking a zero tolerance stance and arresting everyone on a widespread, systematic  basis, thereby taking parents away from their children. People were arrested in the past and you've presented evidence of that, but it was never policy to do that in every case as it was under Trump.  

You can freak out and put me on ignore because I continually catch your misrepresentations, but that won't stop me from pointing them out. I'm tired of right-wingers making up their own facts and going unchallenged. It's led us to the political climate we are in now.

Some Trump supporters have taken a more honest approach and supported the administration's actions as a desperate measure to deal with a serious problem. But regardless, it appears that it wasn't as necessary as they made it out to be and they have already halted the policy.

Edited June 21, 2018 by BubberMiley

[Argus]

4 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

 When all you can provide is isolated incidents from years ago, you only support my point that family separation was never before a systemic policy to be used on a broad scale as a deterrent

Family seperation has been routine for some time,. Enforcing the law against illegal border jumpers is designed as a deterrent, but it's only supposition the child seperation, a product of that enforcement, is as well. Want to see children in cages? Here you go.

http://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5

[bush_cheney2004]

5 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

But the Phillipines is a key location, but it is easily manipulated because it depends entirely on western charity to survive. No western leader (But Trump) would suck up to garbage like Duterte because they can pull his strings in more effective ways economically. If Canada suddenly restricted Canadian money going back there, Duterte would be on his knees with Trudeau in a second. 

 

Actually, Canada's biggest source of new immigrant labour comes from the Philippines, often separating children from their parents for years.  

Sure looks like "sucking up" to me...

 

Quote

To start new lives in Canada, Filipino parents are at the mercy of Kafkaesque and ever-changing policies that often separate them from their children for years – and even for the kids who make it, reunion isn’t always the happy ending they hope for.

... Most of these kids’ parents (more often than not mothers) had left their small children in the Philippines to come to Canada on long-term work visas – most commonly on what was formerly known as the Live-In Caregiver Visa. Those visas carried a guarantee of eventual pathways to permanent residence and family reunification. But a set of confusing changes to the system, and serious flaws in Canada’s credential-recognition procedures, mean that thousands of these Filipino parents every year have their children denied access to Canada. Many are forced to wait many years, often more than a decade, before they’re able to jump through the hoops necessary to bring their kids over. The result can easily mean a decade of separation.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-for-this-generation-of-filipino-canadians-broken-policies-have-left-a/

 

[BubberMiley]

41 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Actually, Canada's biggest source of new immigrant labour comes from the Philippines, often separating children from their parents for years.  

Sure looks like "sucking up" to me...

 

 

Yes, although that situation is foreseeable, voluntary, and it involves children remaining at home with grandparents, not locked in cages in an old Walmart. But how is that "sucking up" to Duterte? That doesn't make any sense. 

[scribblet]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

Family seperation has been routine for some time,. Enforcing the law against illegal border jumpers is designed as a deterrent, but it's only supposition the child seperation, a product of that enforcement, is as well. Want to see children in cages? Here you go.

http://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5

Right, as I showed here  https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/KIND%20-%20Betraying%20Family%20Values.pdf …  and

The law the separates migrant children from parents was written in 1997, and the practice has existed under every administration since. Not saying it's good policy, but the current hysteria over Trump is absurd and unhelpful.  

http://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/malcolm-the-current-border-discussion-is-frenzy-over-facts#Echobox=1529583397

 

Edited June 21, 2018 by scribblet

[dialamah]

@scribbletAs has been pointed out several times, other administrations found other ways of managing this situation; Trump and his minions deliberately went with the harshest, cruelest and least humane method, one that had been rejected by previous administrations.  That is the issue and it is neither absurd nor unhelpful to point that out.  Unless one is a die-hard-Trump-Supporter, who can brook no criticism of Trump, of course - then one supports the unnecessary incarceration of kids, while whinging about $7500 for a play set for Trudeau's kids.

 

[scribblet]

One has nothing to do with the other.   I don't actually condone incarcerating kids and do get that he took a hard line in order to get something done about the situation.   I'm pretty sure what Trump wanted was action from Congress meaning the Dems supporting actual legislation.  They wouldn't do that, even to help kids because it was better optics for them to not do it, Schumer has proven he prefers using illegal-immigrant children as pawns to score political points rather than actually solve the situation.   It still doesn't change the fact that previous administrations did it too but no one cried over it then. 

As for the play set for the kids (which has nothing to do with Trump and kids) it was over the top and only one item of many which points to Trudeau's sense of entitlement.  I seem to remember people going bonkers over a $16.00 glass of OJ tho.

[bush_cheney2004]

Why is separating children from incarcerated parents more outrageous when Trump does it ?

...because it has nothing to do with the children at all.

[BubberMiley]

Actually the Republicans control Congress, not the Democrats. They have the ball but they have only invented crises, not proposed anything to deal with them.

[scribblet]

8 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Why is separating children from incarcerated parents more outrageous when Trump does it ?

...because it has nothing to do with the children at all.

Exactly, it's to score political points which is why the Dems won't help pass legislation.   It's my understanding that the GOP doesn't have enough votes. without the Dems.

 

[bush_cheney2004]

5 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Exactly, it's to score political points which is why the Dems won't help pass legislation.   It's my understanding that the GOP doesn't have enough votes. without the Dems.

 

 

This is the real problem...Congress does not want to deal with these issues, because it is political poison.   

Trump is just the latest president to walk into the mess, and so will the next president.

Voters are getting tired of the games / gridlock.

[GostHacked]

So even American publications cannot get their facts straight.  The girl on the cover of Time magazine was never separated from her mom.  So not even Time wants to vet information, or they did it on purpose, either way it's sucks for stupid Americans who don't care to think critically about things.

[Argus]

On 6/21/2018 at 4:36 PM, scribblet said:

Exactly, it's to score political points which is why the Dems won't help pass legislation.   It's my understanding that the GOP doesn't have enough votes. without the Dems.

To get Democratic support the Republicans would have to compromise. The Republicans have made compromise a four letter word. Any senator or congressman who even tries to work with the Democrats gets challenged by well-funded far right opponents come next primary and called a traitor. It's their way or the highway. Which is why they can't get Democratic support on anything. 

 

[taxme]

On 6/19/2018 at 7:37 PM, Jimwd said:

Terrorizing children for political purposes is immoral.

Well, you should be quite happy now that those kids are now reunited with their parents. Go job, Trump. But you should also know that the problem lies with the parents who brought them from thousands of miles away and then broke the law of another country by entering that country illegally with thier kids. If they cared so much about their kids why would they do such a thing anyway? Everyone should have enough brains to know that one cannot just walk into a country and think all will be fine.

Trump is not the problem here it is the liberal/democrats that will not try and assist Trump in trying to stop all this illegal immigration going on into America. They need this immigration mess to be used to try and win the 2018 election. This was going on when Billy Clinton and Bush and Obama were Presidents also. But don't blame them three blame it all on Trump. Trump started it all. With your typical liberal minded warped logic then all parents who commit real criminal crimes in America should not go to jail also. After all, won't they be separated from their children if they go to jail for their crimes? Think about that one for awhile. What makes these illegals any different and why should they be treated differently? 

And why are you not whining and crying about all the illegal immigration being done by the hundreds of criminal illegals that are entering Canada every day illegally? Why all your hoof poof words of nothing and all over what goes on in America and their immigration problem? Canada is having an explosion of criminal illegals crossing into Canada illegally. You appear to not give a dam about that. Why? I can be pretty sure that with you it is all Trump's fault right, eh? Got to go get that Trump and try to find something on and then bitch about Trump.  

[taxme]

On 6/19/2018 at 9:51 PM, eyeball said:

What's really terrifying is how many people think its the moral thing to do. They probably think these kids are a lot more like Omar Khadr who chose to follow their parents.

These so-called children are practically terrorists.

It's not Trump's fault, silly. It is all the fault of the parents who brought those kids along with them for thousands of miles and then crossed with their kids illegally. The cartels make thousands of dollars by also bringing parents and their kids to the American border. Many kids have been found to not even be the children of many of those illegal criminals at all. Many kids were being used as an excuse to enter America by the cartels who made thousands of dollars by bringing them to the border. Try listening to FOX news for a change because CNN, MSNBC or the CBC will not tell you those true facts. It's time for people like you to get the other side of the story for a change, not just one side of the story. 

It is the parents that can be considered the terrorists here, not the children. They are all innocent in all of this illegal immigration game.