U.S. imposing steel and aluminum tariffs on Canada, Mexico and Europe

[taxme]

On 5/31/2018 at 9:31 AM, WIP said:

Good riddance, now that you are jumping on the sinking ship - US of A!  The reason why the American Empire is becoming so ruthless and desperate today is because other nations..friend and foe alike, are seeking ways out of US Dollar denominated trading and winning back freedom to decide who they buy and sell to.  Without Dollaraucracy, the Empire will crumble under its massive debt-load...like pretty much every other past empire.

Trump is trying hard to save the US of A from sinking from the result of the international globalist banksters who have treated America as if it were their own country to do with as they please. I cannot wait for the day when the international globalist banksters and their petrodollar bites the dust. The world needs a change from that cabal. 

[taxme]

On 6/1/2018 at 8:42 AM, eyeball said:

Effing right-wingers have been peddling this socialists are traitors shit for years, its like talking about the weather but never doing anything about it.  Either put up or shut-up, borrow a page from Pinochet's handbook or something.

Effing left wingers. It would appear as though all the political party's in Canada have been boring and reading from the handbook of Lenin, Stalin and Alinsky. 

[Argus]

1 hour ago, WIP said:

Sure you do! So why do you prefer Coke to Pepsi? Why do buy Nike instead of Reebok or Adidas?

I buy Coke instead of Pepsi because I prefer the taste of Coke.

When shopping for footwear I buy what looks good to me and what is comfortable to wear without regard to brand.

 

[bush_cheney2004]

These guys get it....Trudeau thinks of Trump as a buffoon at Canada's economic peril.....

 

Quote

..Canadians are left with the impression that President Donald Trump is an irrational buffoon who is shooting himself in the foot with his trade policies. In fact, contrary to common (and, apparently, Canadian political executive) sense, the U.S. administration’s tariffs are actually perfectly rational – from Mr. Trump’s perspective.

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-trumps-beggar-thy-neighbour-trade-strategy-is-anything-but-foolish/

 

[taxme]

On 6/4/2018 at 9:17 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

These guys get it....Trudeau thinks of Trump as a buffoon at Canada's economic peril.....

 

 

All Trudeau has to do is look in the mirror and he would see what a buffoon looks like. America is the elephant and Canada is the mouse and we must always be careful that the elephant does not step on the mouse. It could really hurt. Ouch. 

[Machjo]

Maybe Canada should just unilaterally drop all tariffs against the world. This would not only help consumers but businesses too as they could then buy the best machines and equipment from around the world tariff-free.

[OftenWrong]

3 hours ago, taxme said:

All Trudeau has to do is look in the mirror and he would see what a buffoon looks like. America is the elephant and Canada is the mouse and we must always be careful that the elephant does not step on the mouse. It could really hurt. Ouch. 

Trudeau turned down an offer to discuss bilateral trade with Donald Trump, even though that could be more beneficial for both Canada and the US in the long run than trilateral NAFTA. I fear his naivety and arrogance are clouding his judgement. He does not seem to understand that in terms of these negotiations, the US is holding all the cards.

[eyeball]

15 minutes ago, Machjo said:

Maybe Canada should just unilaterally drop all tariffs against the world. 

We should still maintain tariffs but tie them directly to a country's human rights and environmental record - at home and especially abroad.

[Machjo]

36 minutes ago, eyeball said:

We should still maintain tariffs but tie them directly to a country's human rights and environmental record - at home and especially abroad.

Why not keep it simple? If a jurisdiction meets the standards of the International Convention on Civil and Political Rights, we unilaterally drop our tariffs against it. That would include the US.

 

We import more steel from the US than we export to it anyway, so the market should be able to adapt to his steel tariffs easily enough.

[taxme]

8 hours ago, Machjo said:

Maybe Canada should just unilaterally drop all tariffs against the world. This would not only help consumers but businesses too as they could then buy the best machines and equipment from around the world tariff-free.

Now that is what I call free trade. So, who benefits from these tariffs anyway? Is it the business people who get this tariff money given back to them or is it the government that gets the money and pockets it? Is tariffs just another tax by the government to make more money for itself? Why doesn't the government stay out of trade deals and leave the running of a business to the people who run a business. Let them make and do their own deals with the rest of the world. They do not need no stinking government to do that for them. That should end all the waste of time and taxpayer's tax dollars that the government need not have to get involved with. Here in BC we have government owned and operated auto insurance and government owned liquor stores. Why? ICBC vehicle insurance is always broke. There are too many chiefs and not enough Indians running ICBC. There never should be any government running any business that the private sector cannot handle by themselves or make trade deals with. Why does the government have to be involved in just about everything? They should be there to make laws not run businesses or get involved in trade deals. Just my opinion. 

[Zeitgeist]

So now that USMCA is pending implementation, is the U.S. plan to remove the steel and aluminum tariffs on Canada if Canada imposes these tariffs on China?  Is the U.S. trying to align our trade policy against low-cost jurisdictions?  I wonder what high-level discussions, if any, have taken place between our governments in this regard.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Zeitgeist

[Wilber]

On 6/6/2018 at 4:10 PM, Machjo said:

Why not keep it simple? If a jurisdiction meets the standards of the International Convention on Civil and Political Rights, we unilaterally drop our tariffs against it. That would include the US.

 

We import more steel from the US than we export to it anyway, so the market should be able to adapt to his steel tariffs easily enough.

So we let theirs in tariff free while they charge 25% on ours. Pretty soon we will be importing 100% because we will have no industry. That's how the market will adapt.

[Machjo]

8 minutes ago, Wilber said:

So we let theirs in tariff free while they charge 25% on ours. Pretty soon we will be importing 100% because we will have no industry. That's how the market will adapt.

And so we'll focus on producing something else instead.

[Wilber]

1 minute ago, Machjo said:

And so we'll focus on producing something else instead.

Like what when all it takes a tariff by someone else to kill it.

Those Canadians are selling too many widgets in our country say the local widget makers. No problem, we will just put a tariff on their widgets and make them too expensive because we know they won't retaliate.

[Machjo]

12 minutes ago, Wilber said:

Like what when all it takes a tariff by someone else to kill it.

Those Canadians are selling too many widgets in our country say the local widget makers. No problem, we will just put a tariff on their widgets and make them too expensive because we know they won't retaliate.

If they tax everything, sooner or later US consumers will pay a hefty price. If they want to punish themselves like that let them. Meanwhile, Canada's low dollar would attract more tariff-resistant industries like in banking, research and development, travel and tourism, international education, software development (which can just be sold online by email and so has no need to cross customs), etc.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Machjo

[Wilber]

1 minute ago, Machjo said:

If they tax everything, sooner or later Us consumers will pay a hefty price. If they want to punish themselves like that let them.

Punish themselves by having all the market or punish ourselves by not having any. I know which one I would choose.

[Machjo]

10 minutes ago, Wilber said:

Punish themselves by having all the market or punish ourselves by not having any. I know which one I would choose.

They can't have all the market because if they have all of it, we'd produce nothing and so have no money with which to buy their products. In short, if they hurt us, they'll actually hurt themselves too.

[Wilber]

7 minutes ago, Machjo said:

They can't have all the market because if they have all of it, we'd produce nothing and so have no money with which to buy their products. In short, if they hurt us, they'll actually hurt themselves too.

Exactly, we would have no money to buy their products and none of our own products to buy.  Who gets hurt most?

[Machjo]

3 minutes ago, Wilber said:

Exactly, we would have no money to buy their products and none of our own products to buy.  Who gets hurt most?

The market would adapt long before that. The moment Canadian industries start to close, the CAD would drop, which in turn would make Canadian exports from the surviving industries more more competitive. The more the US raises tariffs, the more the CAD would drop relative to the USD. Sooner or later, the US would be stuck in a bind while Canada would enjoy a highly competitive devalued CAD.

[Zeitgeist]

22 minutes ago, Machjo said:

The market would adapt long before that. The moment Canadian industries start to close, the CAD would drop, which in turn would make Canadian exports from the surviving industries more more competitive. The more the US raises tariffs, the more the CAD would drop relative to the USD. Sooner or later, the US would be stuck in a bind while Canada would enjoy a highly competitive devalued CAD.

Relying on a low dollar doesn’t make a country competitive.  The trick is to have workers making high wages selling quality, value added products, at fair but not low prices.  If the products are great, people buy them at quite high prices.  Think of Apple.  

Edited October 9, 2018 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

On 10/8/2018 at 12:03 PM, Zeitgeist said:

So now that USMCA is pending implementation, is the U.S. plan to remove the steel and aluminum tariffs on Canada if Canada imposes these tariffs on China?  Is the U.S. trying to align our trade policy against low-cost jurisdictions?  I wonder what high-level discussions, if any, have taken place between our governments in this regard.

 

USMCA is a trade agreement that has yet to be ratified by any member nation....U.S. steel and aluminum tariffs are Dept. of Commerce...enforcement of existing trade rules and countervailing actions...totally different.

Edited October 9, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[Machjo]

13 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Relying on a low dollar doesn’t make a country competitive.  The trick is to have workers making high wages selling quality, value added products, at fair but not low prices.  If the products are great, people buy them at quite high prices.  Think of Apple.  

Absolutely. If we investin education, then our workers will be able to produce things that US consumers will want to pay the tariffs for since no US company would produce the same at the same quality, Under protectionism of everything, the US industry would soon become a jack of all trades and master of none. Tariff-free Canada would focus on what it does best against which US manufacturers just couldn't compete. Tariffs don't solve all problems and Trump will soon learn that the hard way. Worse yet, industries gradually become dependent on tariffs and subsidies over time.

[bush_cheney2004]

7 minutes ago, Machjo said:

Absolutely. If we investin education, then our workers will be able to produce things that US consumers will want to pay the tariffs for since no US company would produce the same at the same quality,

 

No, the "US company" would just buy the Canadian firm and make it a subsidiary, just as they have done for the duration of NAFTA.

Big fish eat little fish.

Edited October 9, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[Wilber]

37 minutes ago, Machjo said:

The market would adapt long before that. The moment Canadian industries start to close, the CAD would drop, which in turn would make Canadian exports from the surviving industries more more competitive. The more the US raises tariffs, the more the CAD would drop relative to the USD. Sooner or later, the US would be stuck in a bind while Canada would enjoy a highly competitive devalued CAD.

No it wouldn't, many Canadian industries have closed. You seem to think that industries which disappear in your country can magically reappear. For starters, you would have to import everything to start your business with devalued currency because what you need to start your business is no longer available in your own.  The expertise you require to start an run it would no longer be there because had to go elsewhere to survive. A lower currency may make exports more competitive but it also makes you poorer. The lower currency can also be easily dealt with by just upping the tariff because there is no risk of retaliation.

On side being subsidized and the other not, Is not competition.

[Wilber]

22 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

USMCA is a trade agreement that has yet to be ratified by any member nation....U.S. steel and aluminum tariffs are Dept. of Commerce...enforcement of existing trade rules and countervailing actions...totally different.

The question was, will the tariffs be used as leverage to control Canadian foreign and trade policy which have nothing to do with existing trade rules. Given recent events, it is a perfectly reasonable question.