Horwath, NDP: "Donate a little bit more taxes....."

[August1991]

Just now, WIP said:

If they pay sales taxes they have skin in the game especially if they're below the poverty line. The least amount of skin in the game are the fatcats who pay little or nothing in corporate and capital gains taxes because they're accountants find deductions us wage earners aren't entitled to! 

My gross income before taxes was over $85,000 last year...so I paid a lot in taxes, especially when everything else is added in. Nevertheless, I punch up/not down!

In Canada, we largely have a Milton Friedman negative income tax. There is a GST refund, for those who are registered. And then there are numerous child payments/refunds/tax credits.

About 35% of Canadian voters have no skin in the game. For them, discussion of taxes/government borrowing is irrelevant.

Fortunately, most of them don't vote. For now.

[WIP]

21 minutes ago, August1991 said:

In Canada, we largely have a Milton Friedman negative income tax. There is a GST refund, for those who are registered. And then there are numerous child payments/refunds/tax credits.

About 35% of Canadian voters have no skin in the game. For them, discussion of taxes/government borrowing is irrelevant.

Fortunately, most of them don't vote. For now.

Everyone has skin in the game, except for the superrich who don't feel they should pay any taxes!  The only tax rebates I ever qualified for were the child tax benefits (a small portion because of my income). 

Nobody should be disenfranchised because of their income! It's an insult to try to argue the point! The poor should not be shamed in to silence and declining to vote! 

[betsy]

4 hours ago, WIP said:

I'll bet you would care if it was a Liberal government that set up our money-losing privatization scheme!  I care about history!  So, even though I never feel a strong pull to vote Liberal, I'm sick of the Wynn Government getting blamed for decisions made by previous governments, and my impression was they were doing the best they could to manage a dysfunctional system that was already billions of dollars in debt.

So, care about history - but don't use it to justify what's going on NOW!  A dysfunctional in-your-face-lying Liberal party took over.....!  Fifteen years ago!

 

 

Quote

 

GOLDSTEIN: Ontario’s ‘lost decade’ under the Liberals

Since the best indicator of future performance is past practice, consider what the Liberals did at the very start of their regime 15 years ago.

After Wynne’s predecessor, Dalton McGuinty, won power in 2003, he broke his signature election promise not to raise taxes, imposing a multi-billion-dollar annual tax hike on Ontario families that continues to this day.

 

http://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/goldstein-premier-wynne-trying-to-win-re-election-by-driving-her-government-into-unprecedented-debt-ignoring-the-huge-economic-damage-its-already-caused

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

Horwath may be a nice person....heck, I don't know her personally.  But we're not voting on nice.  We're looking at her vision!

 

What sensible voter would see an improvement over a vision that promises to do more reckless spendings???  To put more deficits on top of what we've got now......and it's by an ideology that's actually anti-capitalism?  

What investors would be attracted to Ontario that's run by a socialist government?   Most likely, we'll lose more businesses......especially when the USA is wielding a huge carrot to attract them!

 

Don't ever imagine it wouldn't get any worse with the NDP......

.....look at Alberta!!

 

 

Quote

 

While the NDP’s whopping $96-billion debt figure leads headlines, this week’s budget confirmed what the vast majority of Albertans already suspected: the NDP’s carbon tax is nothing more than a government cash-grab.

 

Why does the NDP need to increase this punitive tax on consumers?

Because since they came to office, spending has increased by 16%. By 2023, spending will have grown by 35%, faster than inflation or population growth.

Only the NDP could consider this ‘restraint.’

 

In fact, the NDP’s policies have made a bad situation worse.

 

The NDP hiked taxes on individuals and businesses, arguing it would bring in more money for government programs. But year after year, revenues have declined as higher taxes and costly regulations have driven away investment and suppressed economic growth.

http://calgarysun.com/opinion/columnists/guest-column-ndp-fiscal-plan-is-sinking-alberta

 

 

"The NDP hiked taxes on individuals and businesses, arguing it would bring in more money for government programs."

 

That's basically what Horwath was saying in that interview - the title of this thread!    At least, she's giving us a heads up!  Kinda. 

"Donate a little bit more taxes....."

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by betsy

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, betsy said:

Horwath may be a nice person....heck, I don't know her personally.  But we're not voting on nice.  We're looking at her vision!

That's the problem we face. Many people these days are voting on nice, etc. or more specifically, based on identity politics.

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, August1991 said:

About 35% of Canadian voters have no skin in the game. For them, discussion of taxes/government borrowing is irrelevant.

Let's check this old wives' tale/old husbands' tale that has been kicking around since Mitt Romney was filmed cackling at the poor, at some country club:

 

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/measuring-the-distribution-of-taxes-in-canada.pdf

(Surely the FRASER institute is not some left-wing rag that you use to polish the hood of your Rolls, right old chap ?)

Quote

...many members of families in the bottom 20 percent pay no income tax at all. This is because the value of the tax credits and deductions they claim is equal to or greater than the amount of income tax they would have owed. For example, every taxpayer receives the federal basic amount, which means the first $11,635 of earned income is tax exempt. Someone making $11,635 or less would thus not have to pay any federal personal income tax.

Did you catch that ?  Many *members* of families in the bottom *20* percent.  Someone making $11,635 pays no income.  There is your fat cat, August.  Go after him !

[Argus]

William Watson: Thank the rich. They’re the ones paying for everything

The top 1% pay 22% of all income tax.

The top 5% pay 41.5% of all income tax

The top 10% pay 54.9% of all income tax.

The top 50% pay 95.5% of all income tax

When someone signs a cheque for three-quarters of a million dollars to the revenue minister, the rest of us should tip our hats

http://business.financialpost.com/opinion/william-watson-thank-the-rich-theyre-the-ones-paying-for-everything

[Argus]

In 2014, 27.5 million Canadian filed a tax return; 33% (9.1 million) paid no income tax; 67% (18.4 million tax filers) paid all the federal and provincial income tax.

Those with incomes under $50,000 accounted for 68.4% of all tax filers and paid 13.2% of all federal income tax.

Filers between $50,000 and $99,999 represented 23.3% of all filers and paid 35% of all federal income tax.

Those with incomes at $100,000 and above represented 8.4% of all filers and paid 51.8% of all federal income tax

Of note, those with incomes at $250,000 or higher represented 1% of all tax filers and paid 21.1% of all federal income tax.

https://www.taxpayer.com/news-releases/ctf-study--who-pays-canada-s-income-tax-bill-

[Argus]

9 hours ago, WIP said:

Nobody should be disenfranchised because of their income! It's an insult to try to argue the point! The poor should not be shamed in to silence and declining to vote! 

Nevertheless, his point is valid. Those who pay no income tax aren't going to care much about how high income taxes must rise in order to give them ever more government goodies and funding. This represents a block of people who will always vote for whichever party promises them more stuff, without regard to costs. After all, they aren't the ones who'll be paying for that stuff. And as the size of this block of citizens grows, politicians will do more and more to cater to their desires for more programs and 'stuff' to make them happy. This is basic human behaviour. 

[bush_cheney2004]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Let's check this old wives' tale/old husbands' tale that has been kicking around since Mitt Romney was filmed cackling at the poor, at some country club:

 

Typical...it takes an American politician's view on U.S. federal income taxes to provide ammunition in a Canadian provincial election....on top of Trump.

Must be a Canadian value !

[WIP]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

Nevertheless, his point is valid. Those who pay no income tax aren't going to care much about how high income taxes must rise in order to give them ever more government goodies and funding. This represents a block of people who will always vote for whichever party promises them more stuff, without regard to costs. After all, they aren't the ones who'll be paying for that stuff. And as the size of this block of citizens grows, politicians will do more and more to cater to their desires for more programs and 'stuff' to make them happy. This is basic human behaviour. 

And they're not the ones who lobby Ottawa and Queen's Park and relieve themselves of their tax burdens through creative bookkeeping and foreign tax shelters that allow capital to flow back and forth, while leaving someone else to pay for the costs of managing government, military and domestic obligations every civilized society has to deal with. So once again, I aim high before I fire/not low and shoot the ones with no power over me and may require assistance from the dwindling social safety net that's leaving more and more to fall through the cracks even without having US-style conservative government....yet!

[WIP]

7 hours ago, betsy said:

Horwath may be a nice person....heck, I don't know her personally.  But we're not voting on nice.  We're looking at her vision!

 

What sensible voter would see an improvement over a vision that promises to do more reckless spendings???  To put more deficits on top of what we've got now......and it's by an ideology that's actually anti-capitalism?  

What investors would be attracted to Ontario that's run by a socialist government?   Most likely, we'll lose more businesses......especially when the USA is wielding a huge carrot to attract them!

 

Don't ever imagine it wouldn't get any worse with the NDP......

.....look at Alberta!!

 

 

http://calgarysun.com/opinion/columnists/guest-column-ndp-fiscal-plan-is-sinking-alberta

 

 

"The NDP hiked taxes on individuals and businesses, arguing it would bring in more money for government programs."

 

That's basically what Horwath was saying in that interview - the title of this thread!    At least, she's giving us a heads up!  Kinda. 

"Donate a little bit more taxes....."

 

Since I haven't lived in Alberta for many years, I have to ask: what the hell happened to that surplus fund from all the oil development that was supposed to keep Alberta safe for the future? What did the 'fiscal conservative' Tories do with the half a century they were managing Alberta's economy during the oil boom years?

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Typical...it takes an American politician's view on U.S. federal income taxes to provide ammunition in a Canadian provincial election....on top of Trump.

Must be a Canadian value !

Of course.  When you are the leader people follow you, naturally.

[betsy]

39 minutes ago, WIP said:

Since I haven't lived in Alberta for many years, I have to ask: what the hell happened to that surplus fund from all the oil development that was supposed to keep Alberta safe for the future? What did the 'fiscal conservative' Tories do with the half a century they were managing Alberta's economy during the oil boom years?

You keep digging up past that had long passed.   It's still about the NDP!  We're talking recent and current events here.

 

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by betsy

[eyeball]

5 hours ago, Argus said:

The top 1% pay 22% of all income tax.

Is that all? These lazy bastards have it way to easy.

Don't forget they also get about 99% of the influence in our national and provincial capitals.

[Michael Hardner]

18 hours ago, Argus said:

 The top 50% pay 95.5% of all income tax

Yes, as they have almost 90% of all the revenue.  It's a progressive tax, right.  Government works to ensure that the top investors and earners do well, and makes policies to allow them, for example, to bring in minimum wage workers to overseas to make their businesses profitable. 

Anyway, I have refuted Auguste's point.

[WIP]

On 5/24/2018 at 2:11 PM, betsy said:

You keep digging up past that had long passed.   It's still about the NDP!  We're talking recent and current events here.

 

 

The past never existed...live for today....got it!

[WIP]

23 hours ago, eyeball said:

Is that all? These lazy bastards have it way to easy.

Don't forget they also get about 99% of the influence in our national and provincial capitals.

Yeah, if the top 1% and especially the top .01% most of them work for, are so hard done by, they wouldn't be the only ones increasing their wealth today!

[betsy]

14 hours ago, WIP said:

The past never existed...live for today....got it!

You must be happy with the latest poll. 

Edited May 26, 2018 by betsy

[BubberMiley]

On 5/24/2018 at 1:11 PM, betsy said:

You keep digging up past that had long passed.   It's still about the NDP!  We're talking recent and current events here.

 

 

Or Bob Rae. Whichever happens to be convenient.

[Michael Hardner]

12 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

Or Bob Rae. Whichever happens to be convenient.

 Beat me to it...

The interesting thing is that the last NDP government bridged a previous tradition of middling and stable governments to an era of far-right populist politics.   This NDP government may shock everyone back into middle of the road politics, especially the PCs.  Extremist politics and fiscal irresponsibility seem to be the triggers to awakening the populist monster (and their forum goblins also)

 

 

[OftenWrong]

45 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

 Beat me to it...

Not really.

[WIP]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

 Beat me to it...

The interesting thing is that the last NDP government bridged a previous tradition of middling and stable governments to an era of far-right populist politics.   This NDP government may shock everyone back into middle of the road politics, especially the PCs.  Extremist politics and fiscal irresponsibility seem to be the triggers to awakening the populist monster (and their forum goblins also)

 

 

Bob Rae was in the wrong party to start with...as we later witnessed when he became a Liberal and even ran for leadership there. That's why I never get too excited about any leaders! You need leaders who at least voice your own beliefs and goals, BUT these are the same people who can do the most damage to you and your cause because of the confusion and disarray they cause when they reveal themselves as being posers and turncoats later on. 

[Centerpiece]

The timeliness, if not quality of Healthcare is suffering right across Canada......and yet we have parties that want to offer "free" Pharmacare and Dental Care - and still no money to pay for either. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. I mean, who WOULDN'T want these things - but only when we can afford to pay for them. Socialist programs have to be paid for with Capitalist dollars - both are needed but they have to work in a symbiotic relationship - not an  antagonistic one. Conservative and traditional Liberal parties get it. The NDP don't understand that at all - and the Trudeau/Wynne Liberals are  simply an abomination. 

[eyeball]

It's a real mystery how the Khmer Rouge has been able to infiltrate Ontario politics for so long. Maybe conservatives should request the US invade and save us from ourselves.