Stanley verdict not to be appealed

[Argus]

2 hours ago, ?Impact said:

You are right that the rich white lawyers and consultants and their shareholders do manage to get a large chuck of money, as they do in many other circumstances. That is a problem with white European business culture, not the North American aboriginals. Perhaps the Europeans should return to their homeland, and they would only have responsibility for cleaning up the environmental mess they have left behind.

I can't help noticing that the people who readily fling words like 'settler' around and say that the whites perhaps should go home are the same ones who get bug-eyed with outrage if you suggest an immigrant who has spent a week in Canada, can't speak the language and wears a burqua isn't absolutely 100% the equal of any Canadian whose family goes back many generations here.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, ?Impact said:

The problem is the systematic elimination of first nations representatives on all juries. We no longer have a jury of peers because the system works against them.

You have ZERO evidence of any such systematic elimination. 

You don't even have any evidence it happened in this case.

Edited March 10, 2018 by Argus

[?Impact]

52 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

You’re avoiding my question. Is my black neighbor one of my peers?

Is your native Canadian one of your peers?

48 minutes ago, cannuck said:

The problem is that juries are selected by the law, and aboriginals either don't bother to show up for selection or don't meet selection criteria.  It is the same process, the same rules for EVERYONE who goes to court.  Claiming that someone has some special privilege to have a jury that is racially to their liking is racist BS at its best.

Except this case proves that 50% of those who were randomly and showed up were native Canadians, yet the lawyers rejected them in lieu of only the white candidates. This happens time and time again in Canadian courts, that is where the racial bias is apparent. The system created the racist division, not the 'someone'.

[?Impact]

30 minutes ago, Argus said:

You have ZERO evidence of any such systematic elimination.

We have the results of time and time again jury selection by the lawyers gives us a white jury. We allow the lawyers to make their eliminations without disclosing cause.

[Accountability Now]

1 hour ago, ?Impact said:

Is your native Canadian one of your peers?

Why do you refuse to answer  my simple question? Is deflection your only tactic? Or do you not know what a question is?

Edited March 10, 2018 by Accountability Now

[cannuck]

2 hours ago, ?Impact said:

We have the results of time and time again jury selection by the lawyers gives us a white jury. We allow the lawyers to make their eliminations without disclosing cause.

Again, a cause that YOU assume to be based on race.  The law makes no such assumption.  Yes, Trudeau and his justice Minister do, but they are walking examples of rampant racism pretending to be some holier-than-thou types.

[OftenWrong]

And what happened to Mr. Trudeau and his ministers promises? "Big changes is a' coming...just you wait and see..." Not even an appeal, eh? The Court has bitch-slapped them, right in the mouth.

Edited March 10, 2018 by OftenWrong

[Argus]

15 hours ago, ?Impact said:

We have the results of time and time again jury selection by the lawyers gives us a white jury. We allow the lawyers to make their eliminations without disclosing cause.

You have no evidence and no citations, no statistics and no proof. All you have is this recent trial and the whining around it from natives.

[PIK]

But there is evidence that a lot that showed up openly talk about hanging the guy. And the reason they are not pursuing it, because it is the right verdict. They had ample chances to leave the property. And if you don't you pay the price.

[?Impact]

4 hours ago, PIK said:

But there is evidence that a lot that showed up openly talk about hanging the guy

Evidence, an article in the Toronto Sun from a single anonymous source is 'evidence'. Wait, let met get my dictionary out.

[Accountability Now]

4 hours ago, ?Impact said:

Evidence, an article in the Toronto Sun from a single anonymous source is 'evidence'. Wait, let met get my dictionary out.

That’s weird....just seven posts back you had no problem using that same article to support your argument. 

Still waiting for you to answer my question. 

[Rex Havoc]

On 08/03/2018 at 5:16 PM, cannuck said:

Every aboriginal leader or follower that has appeared on the media or that I meet on the street.

Where do you live that you run into Indigenous leaders on the street?

[Rex Havoc]

On 09/03/2018 at 9:44 AM, dialamah said:

That has been the attitude for over a century, and inspired the idea of residential schools to force "change" on Natives.  I am glad that at least some of us have recognized that change starts with us.   

When we had residential schools we had educated people that could advance themselves.

You do realize that all kids of every race and culture were abused in schools back in the day?

These days only 39% are graduating from on Rez schools and the vast majority are female.

Is that because of Residential Schools or just laziness and a culture that frowns upon "joining the rest of the races" in earning a living and having kids on purpose instead of children being raised by there child single parent?

This is why people like Colten Boushie end up in the Indian Posse and other gangs.

It's a job pimping out their sisters and cousins in their early teens making methamphetamine,  selling opiods, cocaine, growing pot in and destroying Rez houses families could be living in and robbing whitie, 

All these punk ass Indians need is Grade 10 and they can walk into a trade union office and skip the apprenticeship waiting list because they are Indians. Same goes for being a miner. Indians get first dibs.

$22 an hour staring in a trade as an apprentice or $28 to start as a miner.

If you can show up to sell drugs 24/7 you can get a real job for 8hrs a day 5 days a week.

Life is really easy if you show up.

Look at our Prime Minister. He was a pot smoking bum for most of his life. He was stoned out his tree all through high school and university but he showed up, graduated and went on to work part time and be a dope smoking snowboarder,  stoner drama teacher and now stoner PM.

Was it different for him even though his father went to a Catholic Jesuit boarding school where a nun had no problem back handing a kid upside the head, or doling lashes across the ass, or hands with a yard stick? NO!

 

With a grad rate of 31% they will maintain the life of poverty and addiction for another 50-75 years.

 

If you have a job and aren't a dealer or thief with a criminal record  you won't be cast aside in jury selection or anything else in life.

[?Impact]

33 minutes ago, Rex Havoc said:

Look at our Prime Minister. He was a pot smoking bum for most of his life. He was stoned out his tree all through high school and university but he showed up, graduated and went on to work part time and be a dope smoking snowboarder,  stoner drama teacher and now stoner PM.

According to who? A drug dealer with a political agenda?

[cannuck]

2 hours ago, Rex Havoc said:

Where do you live that you run into Indigenous leaders on the street?

middle of SK.  Usually when visiting the Treaty Commissioners office.   Meeting aquaintances from my previous business - dealing with nearly 100 first nations (and often their leaders) from 4 provinces. Helping a business friend with 1st nations potable water issues.   Sitting down with one of my best friends of the last 50 years (national leader).

Edited March 11, 2018 by cannuck

[Rex Havoc]

1 hour ago, ?Impact said:

According to who? A drug dealer with a political agenda?

 

1 hour ago, cannuck said:

middle of SK.  Usually when visiting the Treaty Commissioners office.   Meeting aquaintances from my previous business - dealing with nearly 100 first nations (and often their leaders) from 4 provinces. Helping a business friend with 1st nations potable water issues.   Sitting down with one of my best friends of the last 50 years (national leader).

 I'm Saulteaux and my wife is Cree and live "on da Rez ah". Treaty 4. George Gordons in middle Saskatchewan.

The water issues are up north. The Feds handled water issues long ago in the lower 2/3 of SK.

Business must be slow.

What part of SK do you live in?

Edited March 11, 2018 by Rex Havoc

[Rex Havoc]

1 hour ago, ?Impact said:

According to who? A drug dealer with a political agenda?

I wonder how much Trudeau has invested in cannabis?

[cannuck]

22 minutes ago, Rex Havoc said:

 

 I'm Saulteaux and my wife is Cree and live "on da Rez ah". Treaty 4. George Gordons in middle Saskatchewan.

The water issues are up north. The Feds handled water issues long ago in the lower 2/3 of SK.

Business must be slow.

What part of SK do you live in?

Near Saskatoon.  Boil water advisories apply to reserves and small towns all accross Canada.   We had a business associate from Ireland during the construction boom period who brough in some trades, but wanted to introduce some rock crushing technology.  What came with that was exceedingly good water treatment technology that was demonstrated in SK, and then Potlotek in NS.  It is all tied up in the federal bureaucratic BS because of course, water on reserve is a federal responsibility, and you then must deal with the :"Indian Industry" cadre of consultants, etc. that suck all of the money out without putting diddly squat that works back in.

[Argus]

On 3/9/2018 at 8:05 PM, ?Impact said:

We have the results of time and time again jury selection by the lawyers gives us a white jury. We allow the lawyers to make their eliminations without disclosing cause.

Most people are white, so that is not statistically unlikely. Add in that there is a higher avoidance of jury duty among natives, and add in the higher level of criminality among natives and all-white juries are not unusual. It's not a conspiracy and it's not racism.

[Argus]

So it boils down to education (irony) which impacts culture. Without an education you can't really work outside the reservation even if there are jobs available. But this is a parenting issue, too. Parents without hope, esp if they're alcoholics or on drugs don't tend to raise scholars. Violence on the reserves drive away teachers. And so poverty becomes a generational thing. Much as it is in the US inner cities.

And of course, there's not a lot of motivation if you're on an isolated reserve where even if you graduate your only real chance is to move far away from everything and everyone you know, which can be a daunting choice.

I like the idea of sending cheques directly to natives on reserves. The problem, of course, is that if we do that you can expect the official reserve population to double real fast as a lot of natives who don't live on the reserves see a chance to get free money by simply changing their mailing address.

 

[Rex Havoc]

1 hour ago, cannuck said:

Near Saskatoon.  Boil water advisories apply to reserves and small towns all accross Canada.   We had a business associate from Ireland during the construction boom period who brough in some trades, but wanted to introduce some rock crushing technology.  What came with that was exceedingly good water treatment technology that was demonstrated in SK, and then Potlotek in NS.  It is all tied up in the federal bureaucratic BS because of course, water on reserve is a federal responsibility, and you then must deal with the :"Indian Industry" cadre of consultants, etc. that suck all of the money out without putting diddly squat that works back in.

We have a well run Rez with a very bright future for youth IF they finish school. The BHP potash mine is on our traditional territory. A lot of us currently work for PCS but there is work galore coming with K+S and BHP for pipefitters, welders, electrical, mechanics, millwrights, clerical, cleaning, etc etc if they finish school and stay the hell away from the drugs and gangs.

One of our band members is being groomed by the UA pipefitters union to recruit and train young Indian men and women.

How today's Indian kids can turn their nose up at $90K a year and move to the city to work at temporary low paying non-skilled labourer jobs instead of enjoying tranquility of the countryside baffles me.

I'm glad my sons hate the cities, one got his grade 12 but the other quit in grade 11.

They are both working. The one who got his grade 12 makes 3X the money though.

The younger one wants to get his GED and be a lineman for SaskPower like his brother.

 

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Rex Havoc said:

We have a well run Rez with a very bright future for youth IF they finish school. The BHP potash mine is on our traditional territory. A lot of us currently work for PCS but there is work galore coming with K+S and BHP for pipefitters, welders, electrical, mechanics, millwrights, clerical, cleaning, etc etc if they finish school and stay the hell away from the drugs and gangs.

One of our band members is being groomed by the UA pipefitters union to recruit and train young Indian men and women.

How today's Indian kids can turn their nose up at $90K a year and move to the city to work at temporary low paying non-skilled labourer jobs instead of enjoying tranquility of the countryside baffles me.

I'm glad my sons hate the cities, one got his grade 12 but the other quit in grade 11.

They are both working. The one who got his grade 12 makes 3X the money though.

The younger one wants to get his GED and be a lineman for SaskPower like his brother.

 

Thanks for sharing this.

My niece-in-law, from a band in the Cariboo, is going to post-secondary school, plans to get involved in band politics and help drive positive change.   I think there is real change happening, even if it's not consistent yet.  I think the recognition of what Natives have had to endure and the decisions of courts in their favor has worked to give them a sense that they are important and can be the architects of their own future. 

[blackbird]

On ‎2018‎-‎03‎-‎08 at 10:41 AM, Accountability Now said:

As per the article they had no choice since the law dictates that no appeal can happen because the law won't allow for it. I wonder if this is where JT will step in and try to change it so that the law can make it happen.

The law does allow appeal if there are grounds for it.  But just disagreeing with the jury's decision is not grounds.  Any ground for appeal has to be based on an error in the process of how the trial was conducted or a technical matter, not the decision itself.

[Accountability Now]

4 hours ago, blackbird said:

The law does allow appeal if there are grounds for it.  But just disagreeing with the jury's decision is not grounds.  Any ground for appeal has to be based on an error in the process of how the trial was conducted or a technical matter, not the decision itself.

Sorry...I can see how I wasn’t clear as I was referencing the article which did state that but didn’t say it in my statement. 

[Rex Havoc]

8 hours ago, dialamah said:

Thanks for sharing this.

My niece-in-law, from a band in the Cariboo, is going to post-secondary school, plans to get involved in band politics and help drive positive change.   I think there is real change happening, even if it's not consistent yet.  I think the recognition of what Natives have had to endure and the decisions of courts in their favor has worked to give them a sense that they are important and can be the architects of their own future. 

We need an our own political party in Parliament with Indigenous  MPs as Co-Ministers dealing with the Indigenous side of issues.

Instead of complaining about Government,  we need be the Government.