The second amendment is failing the USA : Another school shooting!

[Omni]

10 hours ago, blackbird said:

Not every issue.  He is wrong about guns and going in unarmed, but he is correct about building a wall and keeping bad characters out of the U.S.  He is correct about a lot of things.

The wall is probably one of the stupidest ideas he has had so far.  Illegals don't walk across the border, they take flights. What century are you living in? But you are right, more guns will only lead to more gun murders. Fairly simple. And c'mon, do you think Trump would do anything other than hide under his bed if he heard gunfire? Sheesh! 

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Omni said:

The wall is probably one of the stupidest ideas he has had so far.  Illegals don't walk across the border, they take flights. What century are you living in? But you are right, more guns will only lead to more gun murders. Fairly simple. And c'mon, do you think Trump would do anything other than hide under his bed if he heard gunfire? Sheesh! 

It's a pretty bad idea if you want to control illegal immigration, but it's a pretty good idea if you want to get elected.

[Omni]

4 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

It's a pretty bad idea if you want to control illegal immigration, but it's a pretty good idea if you want to get elected.

American's didn't elect him in the first place ,the "electoral college" did. Hopefully by now even more of them have woken up and had enough. If not, let them drive the debt through the roof building the stupid f'ing wall, cuz Mexico ain't gonna pay for it. The bozo's can then go and piss up against it while the Mexicans are sipping Pina Colodas as they fly over. 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Omni said:

American's didn't elect him in the first place ,the "electoral college" did. Hopefully by now even more of them have woken up and had enough. If not, let them drive the debt through the roof building the stupid f'ing wall, cuz Mexico ain't gonna pay for it. The bozo's can then go and piss up against it while the Mexicans are sipping Pina Colodas as they fly over. 

Yes, absolutely.  I don't know if he's going to be around that long though.

[Omni]

5 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Yes, absolutely.  I don't know if he's going to be around that long though.

Muellers final report, combined with the likely outcome of the mid terms could possibly spell the beginning of the end. 

[Guest]

Just now, Omni said:

Muellers final report, combined with the likely outcome of the mid terms could possibly spell the beginning of the end. 

I was surprised to hear on NPR today that Manafort was looking at spending the rest of his life in jail if he didn't spill some beans.  I wish I had been paying more attention.

They said he might be holding out for a pardon...

[Omni]

6 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I was surprised to hear on NPR today that Manafort was looking at spending the rest of his life in jail if he didn't spill some beans.  I wish I had been paying more attention.

They said he might be holding out for a pardon...

Manafort has to worry about what beans Gates spills. Plea bargains are hot items these days. 

[blackbird]

4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Can't stop legal gun purchases...the majority of U.S. gun homicides involve handguns, not "military style" firearms.

Gun homicide rate is at a 30 year low in the U.S.

Yes, but the U.S. is still in a league of it's own.  I think there were over 14,000 gun-related deaths around 2015 and over 20,000 injured.  A 30 year low doesn't have much meaning when you're in those numbers.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Yes, but the U.S. is still in a league of it's own.  I think there were over 14,000 gun-related deaths around 2015 and over 20,000 injured.  A 30 year low doesn't have much meaning when you're in those numbers.

 

Again, several other nations still have much higher gun homicide rates than the U.S.

So are they in another league of their own ?

[Omni]

13 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Again, several other nations still have much higher gun homicide rates than the U.S.

So are they in another league of their own ?

Which countries would those be?

[Omni]

I'll help you out there. There are about 10 countries that are ahead of the US. Let;s see we've got El Salvador, Venezuela, Guatemala, Columbia, Honduras, Brazil, Oh yes the US Virgin Islands, Jamaica, Bahamas and lastly Trinidad and Tobago. 

Well at least they are warm countries. I wonder where they get their guns from.

[Boges]

8 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Again, several other nations still have much higher gun homicide rates than the U.S.

So are they in another league of their own ?

Which ones? I'll hang up and listen. 

Seems corporate America is standing in where Congress won't with Dicks and Walmart raising the age of buying guns and business cutting ties with the NRA. 

And Trump accused Congress of being afraid of the NRA yesterday. 

[eyeball]

On 2/26/2018 at 4:51 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

The language is clear....a militia's armed capability is dependent on a pre-existing, armed citizenry. 

Why is it still so unclear to many that this capability is to ensure the people are able to resist their government on occasion? Isn't that what Trump meant when he suggested 2nd Amendment folks should deal with Hillary Clinton?

[blackbird]

14 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Again, several other nations still have much higher gun homicide rates than the U.S.

So are they in another league of their own ?

You forget the U.S. is not a tiny banana republic on an island.    The U.S. is supposed to be a leader of the free world and a model of what the rest of the world should strive for.

Edited March 1, 2018 by blackbird

[bush_cheney2004]

6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You forget the U.S. is not a tiny banana republic on an island.    The U.S. is supposed to be a leader of the free world and a model of what the rest of the world should strive for.

 

No, the U.S. is not supposed to be a model for the rest of the world.    More legal and illegal immigrants go to the U.S. than any other nation because other countries strive for something else.

Russia, Mexico, and Brazil are not tiny islands.

[blackbird]

I think some politicians are out of touch with many American citizens.  I believe most Americans want to see some sort of gun control and restrictions on assault weapons while a minority are supporting the NRA tough gun rights stand.  Big money is involved in funding pro NRA politicians.  

[bush_cheney2004]

7 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I think some politicians are out of touch with many American citizens.  I believe most Americans want to see some sort of gun control and restrictions on assault weapons while a minority are supporting the NRA tough gun rights stand.  Big money is involved in funding pro NRA politicians.  

 

The U.S. already had a ban on "assault weapons" (1994 - 2004)....didn't do very much, just like Canada's failed Gun Registry.

 

[?Impact]

The White House is already back peddling on Trump's universal background checks, I guess he is scared of the NRA after all.

[Omni]

21 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The U.S. already had a ban on "assault weapons" (1994 - 2004)....didn't do very much, just like Canada's failed Gun Registry.

 

Check the gun homicide rates and see who actually failed and get back to us.

[Rue]

On 2/28/2018 at 9:20 PM, Omni said:

The wall is probably one of the stupidest ideas he has had so far.  Illegals don't walk across the border, they take flights. 

You read an article that said 40% of  illegals come  by air. That article is not accurate anymore. In fact most illegal immigrants in the US are people who overstay their visas and like Canada are most likely to be from China or India which would  be people who come from air yes but as well there are huge movements of people by container ships, or motor vehicles trains and trucks as well. In fact illegals by air only become illegal usually after overstaying their visa. If you are talking smuggled illegals then its containers on ships, trains and trucks or people hidden in compartments of trucks and cars or by tunnel. Surface travel is done but its not the major source and people under estimate the ability of US border patrols to pick up on movements due to satellite technology now. They may not catch them until they are across the border but they are catching them.

Illegals from Mexico but who are not necessarily Mexicamn are going to come in, hidden in cars, trucks, containers on ships, trains, trucks and by tunnel. In fact Mexican citizen migration levels are in decline as less Mexicans are having children, and there are more jobs now in Mexico. If anything the people coming across the Mexican border could be Central or South American or West Indian if they haven't tried to get in my Florida or other Gulf coast or Atlantic  coast boats ranging in size from rafts to large container ships and trawlers.

Whether walls will be effective I agree with you is questionable. Its easy to dig under them. It does not stop tunnels. I mean the volume of people climbing over walls where they do exist is not the significant source of illegals and never was. Wall building is a political pandering exercise. It turns the intangible into tangible it provides an easy eye reference to a very complex series of movements of people. Its based on the simplistic idea that people walk into the US easily. They have the US mixed up with Canada where Trudeau has enabled illegals to flow into Canada by simply walking in collapsing our screening system and making a farse of any immigration or refugee laws we had.

The fact is illegal US immigrants came in with full knowledge of state governments for many years as they fully understood they did the sweat jobs (farming, factory, cotton picking) Americans were not going to do. Mexicans now are not as hard pressed to come to the US as free trade with the US made it easier for them to build cars in Mexico and set up cattle, pig and farm operations that export into the US not to mention the garment business. Mexicans went to the US for jobs that  now exist in Mexico because of free trade. Ironically Trump wants to end free trade with Mexico the very thing that has curtailed their movement into the US. Trump  wants to end free trade with Mexico and Canada to try end Canadian and  Mexican trade advantages. He wants it both ways. No Mexican illegals coming for work, but when they stay behind and have work, he wants that work ended as its too competitive with US work.

That said the majority of Americans want a wall, and its their right to build one. Its a sovereign issue. What Yanks do within their borders is their right. They want to build walls, its their right.

I don't think Mexicans were a  true criminal or terrorist  threat to the US in fact they provided a cheap source of under the table labour. Now that they under free trade can stay home I am not sure what Trump is thinking singling out Mexicans and  trying to end their jobs by ransacking NAFTA. If he puts them out of work they will be forced  to head to the US again. Some argue Trump is building the walls knowing they will be useless and his real agenda is to end NAFTA to get the cheap Mexican labour out of Mexico annd back into the US as illegals so they can be paid again under the table under minimum wage knowing they will just dig tunnels.  Mexicans right now are no more than 28% of illegals in the US and the majority of Mexican illegals have been in the US more than 10 years or more.

Today's illegal in the US is most likely a Chinese or Indian student overstaying their student visa.

All that said the walls were not something Trump has created. In fact Obama started the building of them during his first term in office, not Trump and through-out his 8 year tenure Obama approved funding for their construction. Trump is simply continuing what was already started.

Obama wanted to grant amnesty to illegals, Trump does not. That's the real difference in their approach to illegals. Even the screening of Muslims or people from certain nations was going on in the Obama era no different than it was back when Regan, Clinton and Bush reigns.

 

 

 

 

[bush_cheney2004]

The largest number of illegals in the U.S. from visa overstays are.....Canadian.

 

Quote

It seems that an army of Canadian citizens — despite coming from a place of relative affluence and opportunity – live illicitly in the U.S. One research institute estimates the total at 100,000, while a recent American government report said nearly that many Canadians outstayed their legal welcome — and failed to leave – in one year alone.

http://nationalpost.com/news/world/northern-aliens-around-100000-canadians-live-under-the-radar-in-u-s-as-illegal-immigrants

 

[WestCoastRunner]

On 3/1/2018 at 3:57 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The U.S. already had a ban on "assault weapons" (1994 - 2004)....didn't do very much, just like Canada's failed Gun Registry.

 

Actually it did do much.  The intent of the ban was to reduce mass shootings and not overall gun violence and with that, it succeeded.

Quote

For his 2016 book “Rampage Nation,” Klarevas collected data on every gun massacre — which he defines as six or more people shot and killed — for the 50 years before 2016. His aim was to see whether there was any change in the number of gun massacres while the 10-year federal ban on assault weapons was in place.

He calls the results “staggering.” Compared with the 10-year period before the ban, the number of gun massacres during the ban period fell by 37 percent, and the number of people dying from gun massacres fell by 43 percent. But after the ban lapsed in 2004, the numbers shot up again — an astonishing 183 percent increase in massacres and a 239 percent increase in massacre deaths.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/02/15/its-time-to-bring-back-the-assault-weapons-ban-gun-violence-experts-say/?utm_term=.54a9ab6d0953

 

[bush_cheney2004]

Not only was the original "assault weapons" ban pure political theatre (existing weapons and high capacity mags were grandfathered in), it caused an election backlash that cost the Democrats dearly.    U.S. gun homicide rates were already in decline, and handguns would remain the leading firearm type used in homicides (& suicides).

 

Quote

President Bill Clinton signed the legislation on Sept. 13, 1994, an action about which he subsequently expressed regret.

The reason for his regret was that the ban created a political firestorm. In the national election two months later, Republicans regained 54 seats in the House and eight seats in the Senate, giving them majority control of both chambers.

Read more here: http://www.centredaily.com/opinion/article202786404.html#storylink=cpy

http://www.centredaily.com/opinion/article202786404.html

[Omni]

3 hours ago, Rue said:

You read an article that said 40% of  illegals come  by air.

No I didn't, I heard it in an interview with a USCIS official. But assume what you will.

 

3 hours ago, Rue said:

Obama wanted to grant amnesty to illegals, Trump does not. That's the real difference in their approach to illegals. Even the screening of Muslims or people from certain nations was going on in the Obama era no different than it was back when Regan, Clinton and Bush reigns.

Yes Trump does under the DACA agreement . However he will have changed his mind three times by the time I get back from taking a piss. The rest of your comments is fairly accurate.

[WestCoastRunner]