The second amendment is failing the USA : Another school shooting!

[blackbird]

4 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Some of those links go back quite a few years, so this is not a new issue. I haven't heard of an incident involving use of  teacher's gun, but I don't know how they secure the guns.
Another part of the deterrent they use is putting up signs at the school notifying everyone that teachers are armed, and ready to blow your head off if you make a false move.

Mass shooters would just shoot any adults they see first and then kill everyone else.  Shooters don't give notice they are coming for you.  Arming teachers or security guards is unlikely to be much help.  Who would take a job as an armed security guard at a school?  The prevalence and easy availability of assault weapons and hand guns is the biggest issue.  Unless that changes, the shooting statistics will probably remain high.

Edited February 24, 2018 by blackbird

[OftenWrong]

23 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Mass shooters would just shoot any adults they see first and then kill everyone else.  Shooters don't give notice they are coming for you.  Arming teachers or security guards is unlikely to be much help.  Who would take a job as an armed security guard at a school?  The prevalence and easy availability of assault weapons and hand guns is the biggest issue.  Unless that changes, the shooting statistics will probably remain high.

Nonsense. You fight fire with fire, that's how it works. The people who do this are absolute cowards. Think about it... what kind of a person would enter a room full of unarmed people and start shooting? A coward. Now if they know everyone is packing a weapon, all of them or almost all of them would not even try it. That is why they pick these types of places in the first place, easy pickings.

It would be nice to remove all the guns, but that is not going to happen. Any such suggestion is a waste of time. All that does is bolster the black market, just like prohibition, and these cowards will buy their weapons in the street. And then, nobody else who is a law abiding citizen will have a gun to defend themselves. That is why the idea of prohibiting guns for law abiding folks is not a solution.

There are many very nasty evil people in the world who don't think like you do, and they never will. It's just a harsh fact of reality.

Edited February 24, 2018 by OftenWrong

[?Impact]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Nonsense. You fight fire with fire, that's how it works. The people who do this are absolute cowards. Think about it... what kind of a person would enter a room full of unarmed people and start shooting? A coward. Now if they know everyone is packing a weapon, all of them or almost all of them would not even try it. That is why they pick these types of places in the first place, easy pickings.

Most mass shooters expect to be caught, and have a high probability of being shot multiple times and probably killed. Call them cowards if you want, I have much better names for them, but if you think that they will change their plans because of the chance someone is packing then  you are deluding yourself.

[OftenWrong]

9 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Most mass shooters expect to be caught, and have a high probability of being shot multiple times and probably killed. Call them cowards if you want, I have much better names for them, but if you think that they will change their plans because of the chance someone is packing then  you are deluding yourself.

Even if they go into a school where there are people with guns, whether it be guards, teachers or students they won't have a complete free-for-all taking their time to shoot everybody. They will be taken down.

[?Impact]

32 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Even if they go into a school where there are people with guns, whether it be guards, teachers or students they won't have a complete free-for-all taking their time to shoot everybody. They will be taken down.

Perhaps, but I think the probability of many others being killed by all those weapons is several orders of magnitude higher.

[Omni]

4 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Perhaps, but I think the probability of many others being killed by all those weapons is several orders of magnitude higher.

Of course it is which is why teachers have exclusively turned thumbs down to such a stupid idea as to plunk pistols on teachers hips. luckily teachers are a lot smarter than their president. 

[OftenWrong]

12 minutes ago, Omni said:

Of course it is which is why teachers have exclusively turned thumbs down to such a stupid idea as to plunk pistols on teachers hips. luckily teachers are a lot smarter than their president. 

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/27480-the-second-amendment-is-failing-the-usa-another-school-shooting/?do=findComment&comment=1286523

 

[Omni]

12 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/27480-the-second-amendment-is-failing-the-usa-another-school-shooting/?do=findComment&comment=1286523

 

I see very little in any of your links that tells me teachers wanted to be armed. And that remains true today. Would you like to be in the position of deciding whether or not yo shoot one of your students? I know exactly how you will respond, but before you do perhaps contemplate the question a moment or two.

[marcus]

Americans tend to look with bewilderment on other countries that still have problems such as, say, honor killings and female genital mutilation, and think to themselves: What are you doing? What century are you in? How can you still allow this to happen?

The rest of the world looks at the United States and its school shootings with the same bewilderment and think to themselves: What are you doing? What century are you in? How can you still allow this to happen?

[marcus]

Enemies of the people: here is a list of the top ten members of the US Congress on the payroll of NRA the New York Times published last year after the last mass murder of innocent people in Las Vegas —

The number 1 recipient of bribes from NRA to make sure no gun control legislation is passed in the US Congress is John McCain of Arizona who has received $7,740,521:00 in bribes from NRA —

It is important we call these funds for what they are— “bribes” and not with such euphemisms as “campaign contributions” etc —

These are public enemies number ones— cold-hearted power mongers disguised as lawmakers who do not care about the safety of Americans —they have aided and abetted in the mass murder of more innocent Americans than any other terrorist outfit on planet earth —

Dismantle NRA, ban the sale of firearms, radically change the gun culture in this country, stop the systemic militarization of American culture, stop recruiting children and teenagers into the US army, stop manufacturing arms, stop warmongering around the globe —stop arming nefarious regimes like those of Saudi Arabia and Israel — work towards a global nuclear disarmament —

The whole world knows what needs to be done — innocent Americans are as much at the mercy of vicious American militarism as the rest of the world is — print and distribute their pictures like WANTED posters of public enemies — dismiss any lawmaker who receives bribes from NRA, ban NRA!

The Congress Members Receiving the Most N.R.A Funding

 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, marcus said:

.....Dismantle NRA, ban the sale of firearms, radically change the gun culture in this country, stop the systemic militarization of American culture, stop recruiting children and teenagers into the US army, stop manufacturing arms, stop warmongering around the globe —stop arming nefarious regimes like those of Saudi Arabia and Israel — work towards a global nuclear disarmament —

 

Better idea....ignore all leftists...protect constitutional rights.

Edited February 24, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[OftenWrong]

7 hours ago, Omni said:

I see very little in any of your links that tells me teachers wanted to be armed. And that remains true today. Would you like to be in the position of deciding whether or not yo shoot one of your students? I know exactly how you will respond, but before you do perhaps contemplate the question a moment or two.

Teachers are already being armed, and many do so willingly. If you can't or won't read links that's your problem. I can help you no further.

In pondering your question, I'd certainly rather be armed in a place where I feel vulnerable, or knowing that someone else on my staff is armed, than not be armed at all. That is why some teachers want to be armed, especially those who already own their own guns and are comfortable carrying them, of which could be quite a lot in the US. Maybe you should do a little research yourself before posting out of sheer ignorance.

Edited February 24, 2018 by OftenWrong

[bush_cheney2004]

The gun grabbers will never show you these Gallup polls:

 

 

 

http://www.guns.com/2013/10/26/gallup-poll-support-gun-control-waning-opposition-handgun-ban-time-high/

 

[Michael Hardner]

9 hours ago, ?Impact said:

 Call them cowards if you want, I have much better names for them 

Very few appear to wear ear protection, so they're brave in that respect.  Hearing damage is nothing to sneeze at.

[Michael Hardner]

39 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

The gun grabbers will never show you these Gallup polls:

So I says to myself "Self - why would BC pick a poll that ends at 2013 ?"

 

[Michael Hardner]

3 hours ago, marcus said:

The rest of the world looks at the United States and its school shootings with the same bewilderment and think to themselves: What are you doing? What century are you in? How can you still allow this to happen?

It's starting to become actually boring.   I think we should move to label death by mass shootings in America as "natural causes".

[Michael Hardner]

48 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Teachers are already being armed, and many do so willingly.  

I think that is very important to do.  More guns will aid and protect the heart of the American people, which of course means those invested in the arms industry.

[Michael Hardner]

9 hours ago, Omni said:

Of course it is which is why teachers have exclusively turned thumbs down to such a stupid idea as to plunk pistols on teachers hips. luckily teachers are a lot smarter than their president. 

Of course it's a stupid idea to arm teachers - they should be arming the students themselves.  They are younger, closer to the action and will have much better reflexes and response times.  Of course, there is such a thing as "too young" to own guns.  Toddlers likely don't have the hand-eye coordination or ability to aim well enough.  That is why we will need to introduce a new line of de-scaled weapons to sell to that demographic.

 

[OftenWrong]

13 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I think that is very important to do.  More guns will aid and protect the heart of the American people, which of course means those invested in the arms industry.

The issue is fairly complex, given the history and number of guns that proliferate. We perhaps do not understand a culture where guns are normalized. Of course many in the US own guns, and this includes teachers. I am not endorsing any particular action either way, but pointing these facts out.

Prohibition of guns is out of the question because, as I have said, "the genie is out of the bottle". The resulting black market will negate any presumed benefit. So, if you can accept that fact, next question is... now what.

Edited February 24, 2018 by OftenWrong

[Michael Hardner]

5 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

1. We perhaps do not understand a culture where guns are normalized.  

2.  So, if you can accept that fact 

1. 10-4. Copy that.

2. I don't.  Laws that prohibit things result in fewer of those things being around.  I know this because whenever I ask for a gram of cocaine at convenience stores in my town I get a funny look.

[OftenWrong]

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. I don't.  Laws that prohibit things result in fewer of those things being around.  I know this because whenever I ask for a gram of cocaine at convenience stores in my town I get a funny look.

Sure, but not for crazy people, or criminals. The black market for guns will then be huuuge. My argument is you would end up with law abiding citizens like teachers no longer carrying guns. The people who want to commit mass murder will still get the weapons they need. There might be an argument that the removal of guns from everyday life would reduce gun violence committed by acts of passion, but that's not the current debate.

Edited February 24, 2018 by OftenWrong
removed blah

[Michael Hardner]

6 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

1. Sure, but not for crazy people, or criminals.

2. The black market for guns will then be huuuge.

3. My argument is you would end up with law abiding citizens like teachers no longer carrying guns.

4. The people who want to commit mass murder will still get the weapons they need.

5. There might be an argument that the removal of guns from everyday life would reduce gun violence committed by acts of passion, but that's not the current debate.

1. Yes, they have to go through steps like any other person.  The more difficult it is for a crazy person to get a gun, the less likely they will get one.

2. And barriers will be huuuge: costs of firearms, where to get one, etc.

3. Fewer accidents, fewer impulsive shootings and suicides.  I like it.

4. Some will, but on the whole it will be more difficult for them to get firearms, therefore fewer will get them, therefore there will be fewer mass murders.

5. I would term it a side benefit.

 

But debating gun laws is so boring.  I think I have been reading/discussing this for 40 years.  "When in Rome" is my new mantra.    Like trainwrecks on the other side of the world, I think we should just start pushing these events to the back pages of the "news".  Clearly they don't want to do anything about it, so why should we have to read about it?

[bush_cheney2004]

13 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

.... Clearly they don't want to do anything about it, so why should we have to read about it?

 

Because that's what Canada does.

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Because that's what Canada does.

Nothing lasts forever.  Some things stopped in 2013, for example, like your tracking of gun law approvals !

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

Nothing lasts forever.  Some things stopped in 2013, for example, like your tracking of gun law approvals !

 

Lots of "mass shootings" before 2013...ever heard of "Sandy Hook" ?