Kathleen Wynne WINS 2018 ELECTION. Patrick Brown Accused of Sexually Assaulting Women

[August1991]

10 hours ago, Rue said:

Hang on. He was not the strongest candidate he was in fact a compromise candidate.

Secondly it may be having a new leader come in gets the PC's elected now not the opposite.

Rue, my thinking too.

I reckon that this was an "inside job". (How/where/when did the CTV journalists get these allegations? Why publish now?)

From what I understand, Glen McGregor (among those who broke this story) also broke the robocall "scandal". Who you gonna call? 

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I suspect that many people knew/suspected this before. But you can't divulge details before Christmas, but you have to do it before the election in June. The Ontario PCs have ample time, uh, to find a new leader.

Politics is a blood sport.

=================

With all that said, I have some understanding for these young women and the whole #metoo idea.

Modern leftwing progressives believe that the past was sexist, bigoted, racist, unfair, uncivilised, ignorant, backward.

I disagree. Social (private) conventions arranged civilised behaviour in the past; and they were usually respectful.

Patrick Brown is not a gentleman.   

[H10]

1 hour ago, ?Impact said:

They may seem to you that way, but I expect that CTV did a lot to vet the story. Not only the two reporters with the byline, but there was no doubt several editors, members of senior management, and legal council involved before they would print a story of this high profile. They would have interviewed the women involved and at least in one case others that support her story. I can only speculate that others might have been interviewed with other stories, but deemed not credible enough at the time to be included. The last thing the media wants is a story like this to be printed and then have to be retracted at a later date.

So they interviewed a woman, so what, does that mean he did it? Nope.  Media prints phony stories all the time, and in some cases people get killed for it, did you forget WMDs and the massive journalistic failure to properly investigate the claims.  The media lead the war drums for George Bush.

[Michael Hardner]

5 hours ago, H10 said:

Compromise candidate?  If there was a stronger candidate, they would have won.

Please do explain, prior to the scandal, Brown was polling at 40% to Wynne's 18%, and he worked very hard for 3 years to get there.   

Well, it wasn't that bad but honestly I was surprised at the actual lead:

 

http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2819/ontario-horserace-january-2017/

 

43% to 24% almost 20 pts.

[Michael Hardner]

4 hours ago, August1991 said:

 I disagree. Social (private) conventions arranged civilised behaviour in the past; and they were usually respectful.

Yes.  For example exchanges of property between slave owners was done in a very civilized manner.  And the transfer of abusive priests to different parishes was done without much fuss or noise from nosy media types.

[OftenWrong]

5 hours ago, ?Impact said:

They may seem to you that way, but I expect that CTV did a lot to vet the story. Not only the two reporters with the byline, but there was no doubt several editors, members of senior management, and legal council involved before they would print a story of this high profile. They would have interviewed the women involved and at least in one case others that support her story. I can only speculate that others might have been interviewed with other stories, but deemed not credible enough at the time to be included. The last thing the media wants is a story like this to be printed and then have to be retracted at a later date.

The idea that CTV becomes judge makes me uncomfortable. There is no reason to believe media outlets are fair or that their investigation is even valid. They are not professional investigators, and the people they are talking to are not compelled to tell the truth.

Again I am not insinuating this story is a lie, it is a question of protecting any person and giving them the right to due process. Today we live in an era where your life can be destroyed by a headline, or sound bite.

[Michael Hardner]

OW you are calling mainstream journalism into question.  As such, maybe we can discuss alternatives or improvement.

[Boges]

A quick forum poll done yesterday says this actually doesn't hurt the PCs all that much. 

https://globalnews.ca/news/3988732/patrick-brown-ontario-pc-party/

Quote

 

The Ontario Progressive Conservative Party remains in a strong position to win the provincial election in June despite the resignation of its leader Patrick Brown amidsexual misconduct allegations, according to a new poll.

The Forum Research survey, which was conducted on Jan. 25 after Brown had stepped down, found 42 per cent of respondents would support the Ontario PCs if an election were held today.

The Kathleen Wynne-led Liberals are behind with 27 per cent support, while the Ontario NDP trails with 23 per cent support. Among those surveyed, six per cent would support the Green Party and two per cent would opt for another party.

 

 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

A quick forum poll done yesterday says this actually doesn't hurt the PCs all that much.

 

That makes sense, so hated be Kathleen Wynne and the impact of her party's policies on Ontario.

A dog with a note in its mouth should be able to beat Wynne.

[AngusThermopyle]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

That makes sense, so hated be Kathleen Wynne and the impact of her party's policies on Ontario.

A dog with a note in its mouth should be able to beat Wynne.

I'd vote for the dog. Dogs are loyal, honest and loving creatures, all attributes that Wynne lacks.

[PIK]

Sorry liberals wynne is done like dinner. There is a lot of time to put in a proper leader. And today the polls still show a trouncing of the liberals and that was with and without brown. Get a better leader in and watch the numbers go up even farther..

[Argus]

7 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

OW you are calling mainstream journalism into question.  As such, maybe we can discuss alternatives or improvement.

Is that wrong when you have Left wing politicians calling the integrity of the legal system into question?

Or, as NDP Leader Andrea Horwath snapped Thursday, when a reporter almost apologetically raised, you know, that presumption of innocence thing: “I really have two words — Jian Ghomeshi.”

Here’s two other words: “Not guilty.”

And if Horwath followed the trial, which I presume she did, she would know why the prosecution of the creepy CBC star fell apart: the complainants were not credible; at least two of them seemingly colluded before testifying; all three withheld from police crucial information about their relationships with the defendant. The case should never have come to court.

“The justice system is failing women,” continued Horwath. “It really is. And that’s the reality. Let’s not pretend we have a justice system that’s actually protecting women and making sure that women see justice.”

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/patrick-browns-downfall-an-affront-to-fairness/ar-AAvbm8O?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartanntp

Edited January 26, 2018 by Argus

[OftenWrong]

11 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

OW you are calling mainstream journalism into question.  As such, maybe we can discuss alternatives or improvement.

That would be grand.

[August1991]

14 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Yes.  For example exchanges of property between slave owners was done in a very civilized manner.  And the transfer of abusive priests to different parishes was done without much fuss or noise from nosy media types.

Michael Hardner,

You have a progressive, JFK, 1960s view of the past.

In fact, gentlemen before 1960 - before JFK and this so-called modern charisma - respected women. If they were gentlemen.....

====

Justin Trudeau is a 2000s version of JFK.

And I suspect that Trudeau Jnr's no gentleman either - but in his case, it has nothing to do with sex. It has to do with being a man of honour. 

 

Edited January 27, 2018 by August1991

[August1991]

5 hours ago, Argus said:

Is that wrong when you have Left wing politicians calling the integrity of the legal system into question?

.....

Argus (as so many others - uh, Christie Blatchford: Link),

You're both dead wrong.

The standard of proof in politics is not "beyond a reasonable doubt" or even "probable cause". It's "believable".

=====

My call of his guilt: Patrick Brown used his MP position for personal gain. Worse, he used taxpayer money to hire a young woman and then offer a trip to India - at our expense.

I have no doubt that he did all that.

 

Edited January 27, 2018 by August1991

[OftenWrong]

14 minutes ago, August1991 said:

My call of his guilt: Patrick Brown used his MP position for personal gain.

Who are these women? Do we know any actual details other than allegations in the media?

I guess it doesn't matter anymore these days.

[August1991]

4 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Who are these women? Do we know any actual details other than allegations in the media?

I guess it doesn't matter anymore these days.

OftenWrong,

You ask, "Who are these women"?

======

In the case of Patrick Brown, I am certain that these women exist.

[August1991]

36 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I guess it doesn't matter anymore these days.

An individual using a position for personal benefit has always mattered.

Teachers/politicians should not abuse their position.

=====

I reckon that Justin Trudeau (like Patrick Brown) is abusing his position - but not for money.

In the case of Justin Trudeau, it is his ego - and Dad/Mom issues. 

Edited January 27, 2018 by August1991

[OftenWrong]

2 minutes ago, August1991 said:

An individual using a position for personal benefit has always mattered.

Teachers/politicians should not abuse their position.

=====

I reckon that Justin Trudeau is abusing his position - but not for money. 

And today, we have the media abusing its position.

[August1991]

8 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

And today, we have the media abusing its position.

OftenWrong,

I strongly disagree. Don't blame the media.

This happened. These young women are telling the truth.

Patrick Brown did these things.

======

As to Justin Trudeau, he has another way to present the "truth".

Edited January 27, 2018 by August1991

[H10]

17 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Well, it wasn't that bad but honestly I was surprised at the actual lead:

 

http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2819/ontario-horserace-january-2017/

 

43% to 24% almost 20 pts.

Yup, Brown was stomachable to many liberals because he wasn't too conservative, now they will probably put in another Hudak wacko type and scare off the voters and ensure they lose again so Wynne can steal more money.

[OftenWrong]

9 hours ago, August1991 said:

OftenWrong,

I strongly disagree. Don't blame the media.

This happened. These young women are telling the truth.

Patrick Brown did these things.

I am not taking a stand against the accusations themselves, and you have the right to believe them. I tend to be cautious in "belief" when I hear a story in the news, although such a story is not incredible. Nevertheless my concern is valid, we live in a time where media hype has whipped the public into a mindless frenzy, which is done primarily in the name of selling their product: air time, web site clicks or what have you. And I say this level of media hype is not responsible, it's not responsible journalism.

Forgetting the Brown case for the moment, all one needs to do today if you want to harm your opponent is create a story that goes "viral", and they are finished. A different kind of virus.

In regards to Brown, I don't know much about him as a person so I cannot say if it's true. It is not my place to say that. Judging the way everyone immediately abandoned him, that is interesting. Perhaps they knew something we don't know. I only hope it is no because of this disturbing trend to react to the latest outrage of the day.

Edited January 27, 2018 by OftenWrong
the clarity... the clarity...

[Michael Hardner]

16 hours ago, Argus said:

Is that wrong when you have Left wing politicians calling the integrity of the legal system into question?

No, nor it is wrong to question journalism's integrity.  It's another thing, of course, to say that the legal system or journalism is not required.  Even then, maybe it's so.  What are we going to replace it with ?

[Argus]

11 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Who are these women? Do we know any actual details other than allegations in the media?

I guess it doesn't matter anymore these days.

The problem is the allegations are pretty much believable against pretty much any man. The only way he could really dispute them would be if there was a camera in the room - which would give rise to even worse questions - or if he suddenly revealed he was gay.

I want to have every woman I know
I want to have them take off their clothes
I'll make it with them unless they say no
'Cause I'm a heterosexual man
I'll make it with them whenever I can

[bush_cheney2004]

Some men use power to get sex...some women use sex to get power.

[Michael Hardner]

11 hours ago, August1991 said:

1. You have a progressive, JFK, 1960s view of the past.

2. In fact, gentlemen before 1960 - before JFK and this so-called modern charisma - respected women. If they were gentlemen.....

====

3. Justin Trudeau is a 2000s version of JFK.

4.  And I suspect that Trudeau Jnr's no gentleman either - but in his case, it has nothing to do with sex. It has to do with being a man of honour. 

 

1.  Maybe, but JFK lived in the past and I don't.  I subscribe to Toynbee's Challenge and Response model of history infused with McLuhan's theories of technology, which trigger the failure of creative leadership.  You ?

2.  This was the era of the ad-man, the mad-man... when plastics had just started to provide the slight malleability of the male character into the first tentative steps towards the dress-wearing monster he is today.

3.   Absolutely.  They are bookends of the advertising-made politician.  The former being the first, the latter possibly... the last.

4.   I have heard whispers that he may be more of a cad then is commonly imagined.