NAFTA negotiations.

[paxamericana]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

U.S. ignorance about the rest of the world and how the U.S. is perceived beyond its borders has always been an Achilles heel, but it’s protracted now. The U.S. is becoming a zombie country, choking on its fluffy distractions and consumption. Russia has always seen this.  They’re really laughing now, watching a country divided against itself, alienating allies, and creating inroads for new players. The U.S. is no longer the only game in town. Canada will adjust to tariffs and develop new markets and partnerships. If and when America rises from its slumber, it may find a less receptive world.  Enter China. 

I think the reverse is true, I see a lot of contempt for trump and his supporters. What people out there need to understand is that what America is doing is actually helping others. They don't understand that in order to fix a broken trading system there will be short term pain, they don't understand that to save nato we need an alliance of partners not a protectorate where the US foot the bill of blood and treasure. These are real issue that plagued previous administration and as evident by the backlash why only trump can save us. Trump is not a politician, he is doing what he think is best for America. America is well aware of china's attempted overthrow. We will compete against China where we must, we are doing so vigorously. We are signing up more partners in the indo pacific, you western democracy need to wake up and stop asking the US for handout. The US need you all to drop your protectionist trade barriers and start paying more for your own defense.

That is if the free world wants to save it self. If we fall it won't be because of America, it will because of all you hypocrite who love freedom but isn't willing to pay for it and defend it.  

[bush_cheney2004]

36 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yeah times are changing.  Look, I’ve had some great times down there.  Many Canadians and Americans are related, and there are opportunities for both countries to benefit from each other, but I can’t believe the comments about “shithole countries”. Many times down there I’ve felt unsafe and heard first hand stories from seemingly average people who have lost loved ones to gun violence or succumbed to crippling health care costs after an accident or diagnosis.

 

And still far more Canadians emigrate and travel to the U.S. each year than Americans going to Canada.   Why is that ?    The U.S. has 10X the population !

Maybe Canada is too cold /boring for them and there is far less opportunity back home.  

Also, some Canadian cities are less "safe" than many parts of the U.S. (e.g. Winnipeg, Surrey).

Edited August 2, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[eyeball]

On 8/1/2018 at 8:01 AM, turningrite said:

Many Americans might have to deal with negative results they hadn't anticipated. Why, for instance, is Trump already having to put in place taxpayer funded subsidies to offset losses incurred as a result of his trade policies?

Agents of the left-liberal deep-state msm-party of course - the Swamp.

Like commies and terrorists there's one under every bed.  I thought you already knew that?

Edited August 2, 2018 by eyeball

[eyeball]

45 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

I think the reverse is true, I see a lot of contempt for trump and his supporters. What people out there need to understand is that what America is doing is actually helping others. They don't understand that in order to fix a broken trading system there will be short term pain, they don't understand that to save nato we need an alliance of partners not a protectorate where the US foot the bill of blood and treasure.

World's cop and tough-love parent all rolled into one.

   

[taxme]

On 7/31/2018 at 7:29 AM, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Trump is not a real conservative, but he is a real prick.   That's why many Americans love him and his antics...drives liberals nuts !

Geez fella, with the help of Hillary Obamarama became a bigger prick than what Trump could ever become. Calling Trump a prick is pushing it a little. For one, Trump is getting rid of that murderous gang of thugs and killers called MS13 and you call him a prick for doing so? It was your hero Obamarama that let all those nice folks in. Prick my ass. 

[turningrite]

11 hours ago, paxamericana said:

This is only temporary and not sustainable with current trade disputes.

The pro-Trumpers really need to get a grip. Your guy is going to cost the U.S. big time. Earlier today I read an article (link below) written by the Nobel winning economist Joseph Stiglitz, who states the U.S. is almost certain to lose the trade war(s) Trump has started. In fact, he says that Trump's domestic policies, and particularly his tax policies, almost guarantee that the U.S. trade deficit will actually worsen. But Trump's not one to worry about macroeconomics, as brandishing his TV-honed tough guy image is more important to him. If only running the world's largest economy were a reality show! The article focuses on China, in particular, but notes how currency fluctuations and other factors offset the kind of tariff strategies Trump is pursuing. And Stiglitz is no ideologue, so you can't accuse him of implicit bias and/or predictability. He's been a strong critic of the TPP and corporate-driven trade deals. The guy knows a clunker when he sees one and he certainly appears to see one in Trump.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-us-is-at-risk-of-losing-a-trade-war-with-china/

[taxme]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

And still far more Canadians emigrate and travel to the U.S. each year than Americans going to Canada.   Why is that ?    The U.S. has 10X the population !

Maybe Canada is too cold /boring for them and there is far less opportunity back home.  

Also, some Canadian cities are less "safe" than many parts of the U.S. (e.g. Winnipeg, Surrey).

We once met an older American couple while visiting North Dakota several decades ago and we started up a conversation with one another. The old gal about 65 years old asked us as to where we were from and we told them that we were from Canada. She then told me that she was born and raised and lived in Detroit all her life and too that day and being serious about it that she never once ever thought about going to visit Windsor, Ontario which is just across the river from Detroit. I guess to her that Canada was not on her radar for some reason or just not exciting enough to want to go visit or she must of thought in those early days of hers that Windsor was a part of Illinois. Now how is that for a story? 

Most Canadians go to America for the better prices and deals for their Canadian peso. Plus America does have the better weather conditions in winter time where Canadians can go too places like Florida, California, Arizona or Hawaii and fun places to go also like Disneyland, Las Vegas, New York or Hollyweird. It's not my fault that Americans have the better winter spots and can offer better entertainment than Canada can. Canada is too f'n cold most times. But comparing America to Canada? Indeed Canada is boring. But plenty of Americans do like to visit Whistler, BC. for their skiing holiday. At least we have something Americans want. Chuckle. 

Yes, there are some not so safe places in Canada to not feel safe all the time but I would prefer those you mentioned above to some American cities like Baltimore, New Orleans or Chicago where thousands of people get murdered every year. Winnipeg and Surrey are not even worth mentioning when it comes to those American cities. But hey. 

[taxme]

21 minutes ago, turningrite said:

The pro-Trumpers really need to get a grip. Your guy is going to cost the U.S. big time. Earlier today I read an article (link below) written by the Nobel winning economist Joseph Stiglitz, who states the U.S. is almost certain to lose the trade war(s) Trump has started. In fact, he says that Trump's domestic policies, and particularly his tax policies, almost guarantee that the U.S. trade deficit will actually worsen. But Trump's not one to worry about macroeconomics, as brandishing his TV-honed tough guy image is more important to him. If only running the world's largest economy were a reality show! The article focuses on China, in particular, but notes how currency fluctuations and other factors offset the kind of tariff strategies Trump is pursuing. And Stiglitz is no ideologue, so you can't accuse him of implicit bias and/or predictability. He's been a strong critic of the TPP and corporate-driven trade deals. The guy knows a clunker when he sees one and he certainly appears to see one in Trump.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-us-is-at-risk-of-losing-a-trade-war-with-china/

Well, wherever you are getting all your stories about Trump from it is for sure that you are not getting all those bad stories about trade and tariffs from FOX news at night. When I watch FOX news most evenings I get to hear a different story about the American economy and what I hear is that it is booming. Markets are up, GDP is up and unemployment has gone way down. That does not sound like Trump's policies are not working to me, but on the contrary, they are working. The left wing liberals and democrats know that it is working but continually have to attack Trump and his policies because they have nothing left to offer the American people but more stupid silly ass stories like the Russians are coming and porn stars and allowing sick democrats like Maxine Waters to try and spread hatred and violence towards Trump and the people working for him. That sick biotch needs to be "impeached 45".  The biotch is crazy in the head. 

It is time for you to try and get to the other side of the story for a change and start listening to what others have to say about the American economy like FOX news. I listen to FOX news almost every night and all I ever hear are good stories about Trump and the economy on trade and tariffs. Those leftist anti-Trump morons that you keep listening too in the American leftist liberal fake and phony media and believing those -so called probably paid off liberal Nobel winners and experts- just maybe are being paid to tell you lies. Trump is looking out for America and not for Canada. And our so called Canadian politicians do not appear to have been trying very hard to try and look out for Canada or Canadians or are trying to make Canada great but appear to be trying to make it worse. A country cannot run on and live by having programs and agendas like bringing in thousands of refugees or multiculturalism/diversity, environment over regulations and talk about sex gender all the time. Canada needs a leader like a capitalist Trump to get this country going. What Canada does not need is a liberal leftist feminist prime mistake who only cares about himself and his money. Just saying. 

[paxamericana]

4 hours ago, turningrite said:

The pro-Trumpers really need to get a grip. Your guy is going to cost the U.S. big time. Earlier today I read an article (link below) written by the Nobel winning economist Joseph Stiglitz, who states the U.S. is almost certain to lose the trade war(s) Trump has started. In fact, he says that Trump's domestic policies, and particularly his tax policies, almost guarantee that the U.S. trade deficit will actually worsen. But Trump's not one to worry about macroeconomics, as brandishing his TV-honed tough guy image is more important to him. If only running the world's largest economy were a reality show! The article focuses on China, in particular, but notes how currency fluctuations and other factors offset the kind of tariff strategies Trump is pursuing. And Stiglitz is no ideologue, so you can't accuse him of implicit bias and/or predictability. He's been a strong critic of the TPP and corporate-driven trade deals. The guy knows a clunker when he sees one and he certainly appears to see one in Trump.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-us-is-at-risk-of-losing-a-trade-war-with-china/

All i got from that article is that trump started a trade war to boost his ego. That's as much fake news as it gets. China certainly has some tools to fight back at the US but again those methods are just as destructive as tariffs. Doubt they will use it. Also if they devalue their currency too much to the tune of 200 billion dollar or 25 percent  they will see a flight of their currency toward inflation.

Also, we didnt start this trade war, china did. We were at war for 25 years. China will lose unless they reform. You will see a collapse of their industrial base overnight if tariff hold. Companies are already leaving china for other less tariffed countries.

Look even the Chinese government's ministry of propaganda news admit it...https://www.scmp.com/business/china-business/article/2067470/why-foreign-companies-are-shutting-shop-china

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by paxamericana

[turningrite]

Just now, paxamericana said:

All i got from that article is that trump started a trade war to boost his ego. That's as much fake news as it gets. China certainly has some tools to fight back at the US but again those methods are just as destructive as tariffs. Doubt they will use it. Also if they devalue their currency too much to the tune of 200 billion dollar or 25 percent  they will see a flight of their currency toward inflation.

Maybe you don't want to read what you don't want to hear? Stiglitz is among the world's most respected economists. He's simply pointing out that Trump's tariff war(s) are not likely going to benefit the U.S. in the long run and that Trump's domestic policies, and in particular his tax policies, which will drive the U.S. federal deficit to over $1 trillion a year very shortly, will undermine America's competitiveness and worsen trade balances. You can ignore others who post on here at will. But a growing chorus of respected economists, including Stiglitz and Krugman, both of whom are Nobel winners, strongly believe Trump's policies will backfire. I'm not a Nobel prize winning economist myself, for sure, but think it wise to heed the advice of those with expertise the field.

[turningrite]

24 minutes ago, taxme said:

Well, wherever you are getting all your stories about Trump from it is for sure that you are not getting all those bad stories about trade and tariffs from FOX news at night. When I watch FOX news most evenings I get to hear a different story about the American economy and what I hear is that it is booming.

It is time for you to try and get to the other side of the story for a change and start listening to what others have to say about the American economy like FOX news. I listen to FOX news almost every night and all I ever hear are good stories about Trump and the economy on trade and tariffs. 

Maybe it's time for you to get your economic news and advice from a less biased source. Just saying. The U.S. economy may be booming now but there are warning signs that the fundamentals may be problematic and Trump may be worsening the situation with his tax and trade policies. The foundations for economic collapse are generally established during boom times, as was the case during the period preceding the 2008/09 recession. Yes, the U.S. is continuing to benefit from the policies implemented during the Obama years to stabilize the U.S. economy, but booms never last forever and are often followed by recessions that few except those who have solid economic knowledge generally see coming.

[Zeitgeist]

With regard to “boring” Canadian cities, I’ll take them.  Just in beautiful Quebec City right now and on my way to PEI.  I come from Toronto, that sleepy little metropolis. 

[taxme]

3 hours ago, turningrite said:

Maybe it's time for you to get your economic news and advice from a less biased source. Just saying. The U.S. economy may be booming now but there are warning signs that the fundamentals may be problematic and Trump may be worsening the situation with his tax and trade policies. The foundations for economic collapse are generally established during boom times, as was the case during the period preceding the 2008/09 recession. Yes, the U.S. is continuing to benefit from the policies implemented during the Obama years to stabilize the U.S. economy, but booms never last forever and are often followed by recessions that few except those who have solid economic knowledge generally see coming.

I am quite happy as to where I am getting my economic news from. The sources that you listen to like CNN and CBC are really biased in everything they say and do towards Trump. Every day when they report the news they just cannot wait to bash Trump over something he said or did. Pathetic bunch of crybaby snowflake losers. How can lowering taxes and having a fair trade and tariffs deal for ones country will somehow turn into a disaster one day? That is all just doom and gloom talk and presented to you by people who want to see Trump fail. The so called boom times before 2008/2009 were part of a conspiracy and setup for failure by the zionist Wall Street globalist banksters who knew what they were doing and that it would eventually explode and it would end up making the American economy fail. When Obama was the President and during his term in office he put America 21 trillion dollars in debt. America is still around and so far no great recession has happened. Matter of fact the American economy is starting to look better under Trump. A fact you refuse to acknowledge. 

[paxamericana]

3 hours ago, turningrite said:

Maybe you don't want to read what you don't want to hear? Stiglitz is among the world's most respected economists. He's simply pointing out that Trump's tariff war(s) are not likely going to benefit the U.S. in the long run and that Trump's domestic policies, and in particular his tax policies, which will drive the U.S. federal deficit to over $1 trillion a year very shortly, will undermine America's competitiveness and worsen trade balances. You can ignore others who post on here at will. But a growing chorus of respected economists, including Stiglitz and Krugman, both of whom are Nobel winners, strongly believe Trump's policies will backfire. I'm not a Nobel prize winning economist myself, for sure, but think it wise to heed the advice of those with expertise the field.

I don't know why you are obsessed with bringing up an economist's credential, if you study economics at all you would know that they are like the weather man. 

Stiglitz's perspective on macro economic trends are only half right. He's not accounting for the benefit of deregulation and tax policies that encourages growth. The ideologue liberals and progressive made it their goal to wage war on success when they decided that more regulation and higher taxes would benefit us. That's when you saw a movement of companies overseas and capital being held there. Companies and monies are pouring back in because of a growth oriented tax policy where you can get immediate tax cut for capital investment. Deregulation that stymied growth is a thing of the past. Short term investment in our economic engine is exactly what we need. You are already seeing an increase in wages and as evident lowest welfare application in history. These are true signs of economic growth. No self respecting economist would dismiss the fact that growth solves a lot of problem. Something Stiglitz's article failed to emphasize. 

[taxme]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

With regard to “boring” Canadian cities, I’ll take them.  Just in beautiful Quebec City right now and on my way to PEI.  I come from Toronto, that sleepy little metropolis. 

The scenery may be nice but there is nothing more than that. They still are unexciting and boring places to visit unless one  just likes to sit around and enjoy the view.  

[bush_cheney2004]

3 hours ago, turningrite said:

Maybe it's time for you to get your economic news and advice from a less biased source. Just saying. The U.S. economy may be booming now but there are warning signs that the fundamentals may be problematic and Trump may be worsening the situation with his tax and trade policies. The foundations for economic collapse are generally established during boom times, as was the case during the period preceding the 2008/09 recession. Yes, the U.S. is continuing to benefit from the policies implemented during the Obama years to stabilize the U.S. economy, but booms never last forever and are often followed by recessions that few except those who have solid economic knowledge generally see coming.

 

More dis-information here....Obama continued many of the Bush era stimulus and tax cuts, as well as TARP and other financial crisis interventions put in place before Obama ever became president.   

The U.S. economy has always had boom and bust cycles of creative destruction, and it will happen again, regardless of what Trump's policies are.

Nobody I know in the U.S. worries about the Canadian economy.   Canada's CPB invests more in the U.S. equity and bond market than in any other nation in the world, including all of the EU and Canada.

Edited August 2, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

3 hours ago, paxamericana said:

All i got from that article is that trump started a trade war to boost his ego. That's as much fake news as it gets.

 

Indeed....Chinese and Canadian tariffs, non-tariff barriers, dumping, and IP theft were just fine until Trump came along.    Now tariffs are a bad word.   How dare Trump push back and call Canada out on supply management tariffs that have been criticized by many nations over decades....but now Trump is willing to put some teeth behind such challenges, not relying on the long and winding road of the WTO.

[OftenWrong]

36 minutes ago, taxme said:

How can lowering taxes and having a fair trade and tariffs deal for ones country will somehow turn into a disaster one day?

Because if they don't think that, they can't sleep at night?

[Zeitgeist]

Toronto and Montreal are more exciting than most US cities, though New York is more exciting tha any North American city. 

On another note, it’s time to return restrictions on how much Canadians can invest in U.S. stocks.  It used to be 30 percent.  Now it’s unlimited.  What would a limit of 0 percent look like?  It sounds like the U.S. doesn’t need all that pension money. Invest in Canada. 

Edited August 3, 2018 by Zeitgeist

[paxamericana]

40 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Toronto and Montreal are more exciting than most US cities, though New York is more exciting tha any North American city. 

On another note, it’s time to return restrictions on how much Canadians can invest in U.S. stocks.  It used to be 30 percent.  Now it’s unlimited.  What would a limit of 0 percent look like?  It sounds like the U.S. doesn’t need all that pension money. Invest in Canada. 

You sound like a disgruntled canadian . You have no idea how amusing this is...you're feeding my inner troll.  

I think the heart of the problem with Canada as far as trade is concern is the protectionist policy it adopted for their agricultural industries, supply management etc... The same is true with France. The US should dominate the agriculture industries because we have more land and better capital investment for such business. France and Canada should focus on diversifying to other industries instead of agriculture. 

[turningrite]

3 hours ago, taxme said:

I am quite happy as to where I am getting my economic news from. The sources that you listen to like CNN and CBC are really biased in everything they say and do towards Trump. Every day when they report the news they just cannot wait to bash Trump over something he said or did. Pathetic bunch of crybaby snowflake losers. How can lowering taxes and having a fair trade and tariffs deal for ones country will somehow turn into a disaster one day? That is all just doom and gloom talk and presented to you by people who want to see Trump fail. The so called boom times before 2008/2009 were part of a conspiracy and setup for failure by the zionist Wall Street globalist banksters who knew what they were doing and that it would eventually explode and it would end up making the American economy fail. When Obama was the President and during his term in office he put America 21 trillion dollars in debt. America is still around and so far no great recession has happened. Matter of fact the American economy is starting to look better under Trump. A fact you refuse to acknowledge. 

I don't believe Stiglitz is associated with any major American media outlet. (If this is not true, feel free to correct me.) He's been quite objective in expressing his opposition to trade deals he doesn't like, including the TPP, which Trump got out of shortly after taking office. You may like getting your economic news from Fox News but that doesn't mean you actually understand economic analysis, which is a complex field. Stiglitz points out the downstream disadvantages of the burgeoning federal  deficit, noting that the annual deficit is expected to exceed $1 trillion in the very near future as a result of the Trump/Republican tax changes. This sort of thing happened under George W. Bush and the consequences for the American and global economies were dire. W handed off an economy near collapse with the deficit associated with his final budget period (2008/09) reaching a record $1.4 trillion. It took the Obama administration years to dig the federal budget out of this abyss, something the apparently knowledge-challenged Trump seems intent on ignoring.

[turningrite]

4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

More dis-information here....Obama continued many of the Bush era stimulus and tax cuts, as well as TARP and other financial crisis interventions put in place before Obama ever became president.   

The U.S. economy has always had boom and bust cycles of creative destruction, and it will happen again, regardless of what Trump's policies are.

 

You do realize that Obama inherited an economy from George W. Bush that was near total collapse, right? Obama had to implement an expensive stimulus program and maintain it for an extended period to restore liquidity to a financial system that was brought to its knees by deregulation and greed. Comparing Obama's stimulus policies with Bush's tax cuts is misleading as Bush's policies contributed to the crisis while Obama's responded to it. Many believe that Obama saved capitalism from itself. Some reports have suggested that Bush was utterly unable to comprehend or quickly respond to the 2008 collapse. America's economy might today look like Venezuela's had the intervention not been swift and massive, a response that Obama was able to marshal. Obama righted the course of the American economy and substantially reduced the deficit and cut unemployment in so doing. Any self-respecting capitalist in the U.S. owes an enormous debt of gratitude to Obama. It's shocking that he's so reviled by many right wingers.

Of course there are boom and bust cycles in any economy, but to implement policies that have been demonstrated to fail in the past seems foolish. But Trump seems willing to give it a go. Good luck with that.

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, turningrite said:

You do realize that Obama inherited an economy from George W. Bush that was near total collapse, right? Obama had to implement an expensive stimulus program and maintain it for an extended period to restore liquidity to a financial system that was brought to its knees by deregulation and greed. Comparing Obama's stimulus policies with Bush's tax cuts is misleading as Bush's policies contributed to the crisis while Obama's responded to it.

 

I don't expect you to know the intricacies of what actually happened in a foreign country....President Obama extended the Bush era tax cuts alleged to have contributed to budget deficits.    TARP was Bush...not Obama.  It was Clinton who signed away Glass-Steagall, not Bush.  Obama actually spent most of his political capital and early party control of Congress on health care reform.

 

Quote

Of course there are boom and bust cycles in any economy, but to implement policies that have been demonstrated to fail in the past seems foolish. But Trump seems willing to give it a go. Good luck with that. 

 

That's right...it is Trump's choice to make, just like any other president who has done so in the past.   Advice from Canada is not required or desired.

[turningrite]

4 hours ago, paxamericana said:

1.) I don't know why you are obsessed with bringing up an economist's credential, if you study economics at all you would know that they are like the weather man. 

2.) Stiglitz's perspective on macro economic trends are only half right.

1.) Well, if I want to go to court about something I hire a lawyer. A lot of people don't like lawyers and think the legal profession detestable. But somehow their credentials give them credibility within their field that the rest of us don't enjoy. That's the thing about credentials. They generally indicate that a person attended school long enough to know something about their chosen field of work. And Nobel awards are generally given to those whose accomplishments warrant recognition and prestige. You seem frustrated that I reference the credentials of qualified authorities. But I don't see the problem in so doing.

2.) And you know this how? As you seem to provide your own views to refute Stiglitz, do you have the education and/or training and/or credentials to do so? Generally, if you want to effectively object to the views of an accomplished Nobel winner you have to reference analysis by other professionals who work in the same field or at least provide countervailing opinions expressed by those with demonstrable knowledge in the field.

[turningrite]

23 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

1.) I don't expect you to know the intricacies of what actually happened in a foreign country....President Obama extended the Bush era tax cuts alleged to have contributed to budget deficits.    TARP was Bush...not Obama.  It was Clinton who signed away Glass-Steagall, not Bush.  Obama actually spent most of his political capital and early party control of Congress on health care reform.

2.) Advice from Canada is not required or desired.

1.) Oh my. I don't think you understand the 2008/09 recession nor the extent to which the Obama regime's policies saved the American and Western economies. TARP was seen by the Bush administration as a one-time stimulus measure to shore up bank liquidity but as the crisis continued to spiraled out of control Obama became involved in the intervention (even prior to his inauguration), fighting Republicans who resisted further government intervention in the economy. (See link) Obama understood the crisis to a degree that neither Bush nor many Republican politicians could match. He wasn't blinded by ideology.

2.) And yet you're on a Canadian forum. If you don't want to interact with Canadians or listen to their views, why are you on here?

https://www.politico.com/story/2009/01/obama-gets-first-major-win-with-tarp-017504