Women Who Cover Their Faces Shouldn't Be accepted To Enter Canada!

[blackbird]

38 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Until there were terror attacks, few people cared what fundamental Muslims did.  Now that so many Muslims are vociferously rejecting terrorism in Islam's name, and that there have been a bunch of fatwas against terror attacks, and Imams worldwide have declared terrorism non-Islamic, do you suppose people will stop claiming terror attacks a Muslim requirement and return to ignoring fundie Muslims?

 

A report on CBC said the British police have a total of about 23,000 Muslims they are concerned about and 3,000 of those very concerned about.  They have a long list of radicals they are trying to watch but it is practically impossible to watch every radical because they don't have enough manpower to watch that many people.  There are a smaller number that are a grave concern.  When talking thousands of people, this is pretty serious.  It is impossible to follow every person of concern.

Edited June 8, 2017 by blackbird

[dialamah]

13 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

As a Brit from Bradford, I have known about fundamentalist Islamic beliefs for a long time. I think the first real eye opener was Salman Rushdie, though.   Still, you seem to be questioning the reasons for noticing, not that which is noticed.   Terror attacks are the cherry, for sure, but the rest of Islam still has an awful lot wrong with it. 

Agree with that, but I feel the same about Christianity.  It's easy to further demonize Muslims by making the point that Christians aren't carrying out terror attacks as brutal as ones carried out by Muslims, except they are where they can, they have in the past and they would again given the right circumstances.  And really, Christianity has been dragged, kicking and screaming, into our more secular, tolerant and equal society.  Islam will have to go through the same process, IMO, but I'm no more willing to reject a Muslim with stupid religious views as I am a Christian - as long as those thoughts don't result in illegal activity.

Brutality, violence and oppression seem to be inherently human, regardless of what religion we follow or even if we follow none at all.  Because there is so much brutality around the world and throughout history, it just doesn't make sense to me that its because of any "religion".  

 

[dialamah]

27 minutes ago, blackbird said:

A report on CBC said the British police have a total of about 23,000 Muslims they are concerned about and 3,000 of those very concerned about

I agree, that's a lot of people.   Why so many?   

Did they mention how many in Canada?

I read that May was willing to ignore individual rights in order to deal with this (not sure this is a credible source so won't link it).   If true, do you think this is a reasonable response?

Sisi has jailed a lot of people, including journalists, on the claim that he is fighting the Muslim Brotherhood and terrorism.  My sister and I had a very long discussion about this because Western Media portrayed his actions as consolidating power while my sister believed that he was improving the security of the country.  So will the UK, the US, Canada eventually follow in Sisi's footsteps?

[blackbird]

35 minutes ago, dialamah said:

.

23 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I agree, that's a lot of people.   Why so many?   

Did they mention how many in Canada?

I read that May was willing to ignore individual rights in order to deal with this (not sure this is a credible source so won't link it).   If true, do you think this is a reasonable response?

Sisi has jailed a lot of people, including journalists, on the claim that he is fighting the Muslim Brotherhood and terrorism.  My sister and I had a very long discussion about this because Western Media portrayed his actions as consolidating power while my sister believed that he was improving the security of the country.  So will the UK, the US, Canada eventually follow in Sisi's footsteps?

 

I don't know the answer to that.  People have a lot of freedom in countries like Britain.  They never mentioned how many in Canada.

I am not sure what it means for May to ignore individual rights.  They are in a bad situation in Britain.  I am not sure what can be done.

I don't see anything significant happening in the U.S. or Canada in the near future.  The problem is not as big as the UK.  But in the future decades, who knows what will happen.

[Hal 9000]

5 hours ago, dialamah said:

That's not what either Argus or DoP do or others do.   They use those events to tell anyone who'll listen that all Muslims are the same.  So then, if a woman wears a headscarf, Argus decides she hates gays and she should not be welcome in Canada.  If a Muslim doesn't plan to ever kill an apostate, DoP declares him not a Muslim.     If a niqab-wearing woman threatens others with a knife, Betsy decides no niqab-wearing women should be in Canada.     

There is a world of difference between criticism and simply painting an entire group with the same ugly brush, regardless of the different customs and beliefs among them.  

In your opinion, what percentage of people in Canada do you think agree with what Argus, DOP or me have said? 

[DogOnPorch]

7 hours ago, dialamah said:

That's not what either Argus or DoP do or others do.   They use those events to tell anyone who'll listen that all Muslims are the same.  So then, if a woman wears a headscarf, Argus decides she hates gays and she should not be welcome in Canada.  If a Muslim doesn't plan to ever kill an apostate, DoP declares him not a Muslim.     If a niqab-wearing woman threatens others with a knife, Betsy decides no niqab-wearing women should be in Canada.     

There is a world of difference between criticism and simply painting an entire group with the same ugly brush, regardless of the different customs and beliefs among them.  

 

Who have I declared "not a Muslim".

You sure like making stuff-up.

[DogOnPorch]

4 hours ago, dialamah said:

I agree, that's a lot of people.   Why so many?   

Did they mention how many in Canada?

I read that May was willing to ignore individual rights in order to deal with this (not sure this is a credible source so won't link it).   If true, do you think this is a reasonable response?

Sisi has jailed a lot of people, including journalists, on the claim that he is fighting the Muslim Brotherhood and terrorism.  My sister and I had a very long discussion about this because Western Media portrayed his actions as consolidating power while my sister believed that he was improving the security of the country.  So will the UK, the US, Canada eventually follow in Sisi's footsteps?

 

How many more Islamic terror attacks until YOU think something should be done to stop them? 

23,000 are those the UK authorities KNOW about.

Quote

So will the UK, the US, Canada eventually follow in Sisi's footsteps?

 

Should Islamic terrorism be something we should just get used to as London's mayor claims?

Should I be arrested for not showing Islam the proper respect it is due?

 

[Goh Shenas]

7 hours ago, dialamah said:

That's not what either Argus or DoP do or others do.   They use those events to tell anyone who'll listen that all Muslims are the same.  So then, if a woman wears a headscarf, Argus decides she hates gays and she should not be welcome in Canada.  If a Muslim doesn't plan to ever kill an apostate, DoP declares him not a Muslim.     If a niqab-wearing woman threatens others with a knife, Betsy decides no niqab-wearing women should be in Canada.     

There is a world of difference between criticism and simply painting an entire group with the same ugly brush, regardless of the different customs and beliefs among them.  

A muslim that doesn't plan to ever kill an apostate cannot declare he is a muslim. DOP is right. If a niqab wearing woman threatens others in Canada then others niqab wearing women following this path should be kicked out of Canada. 

This is not a criticism. Muslims are killing jews in Israel and elsewhere. Muslims are killing christians like you and atheists like me.

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, Goh Shenas said:

A muslim that doesn't plan to ever kill an apostate cannot declare he is a muslim. DOP is right. If a niqab wearing woman threatens others in Canada then others niqab wearing women following this path should be kicked out of Canada. 

This is not a criticism. Muslims are killing jews in Israel and elsewhere. Muslims are killing christians like you and atheists like me.

 

The Quran is clear as to what to do with apostates.

They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.

https://quran.com/4/89

Islam's defenders are forced to say that: quran.com isn't the real Quran. But this line is in EVERY Quran. Not some 'radical Quran'...or 'extreme Quran.'

Failing that: they say it is due to the interpretation...like that verse can somehow mean something else than what it says.

It says what it says.

Leaving the last choice: attack DOP...

 

[DogOnPorch]

9 hours ago, Peter F said:

Sorry. That doesn't explain all the Fatwa's issued against terrorism. 

 

Fatwas? They go both ways. There are fatwas promoting killing and terror, too. If you're betting that fatwas from certain sources will save your azz from fatwas from other sources, good luck to you...that's not how I plan on living life.

 

To illustrate further: would you trust a declaration from concerned Germans that Hitler didn't represent the TRUE Germany as a sign the Third Reich is a safe place?

Edited June 8, 2017 by DogOnPorch

[Peter F]

Quote

If a niqab wearing woman threatens others in Canada then others niqab wearing women following this path should be kicked out of Canada. 

Well we all have our fantasies. Mine involve piles of money and beautiful women.  I know what makes my fantasy a fantasy. Do you know what makes your fantasy a fantasy? I think I do: Good ol' English common law.  

The accused is brought before the judge and the state explains why this particular person need be shipped out of the country- well, he posted a bunch of shit on facebook plus we found some sieko watches in his basement.  Ok, next.  What about this guy? He's a Muslim too, yer honour, weren't you listening?

and thats why your fantasy will never come about

[Peter F]

3 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Fatwas? They go both ways. There are fatwas promoting killing and terror, too. If you're betting that fatwas from certain sources will save your azz from fatwas from other sources, good luck to you...that's not how I plan on living life.

 

To illustrate further: would you trust a declaration from concerned Germans that Hitler didn't represent the TRUE Germany as a sign the Third Reich is a safe place?

Re: Fatwas. Well yah, there are indeed many other fatwas promoting killing and terror, almost all of which were issued by clowns unstudied in sharia law and who do not have the qualifications to be issuing fatwas. Yes, there are those fatwas. I understand that to you there is no difference between the two; A fatwa is a fatwa, who gives a shit about the source? Right?

    In any event, you get to live your life in the manner you find most pleasing. As will I. I am not trying to save my azz from fools.  My azz - or head - are right here for the taking. Nor will I seek measures be taken against those who have no intention to follow the will of fools . 

Re: Concerned Germans and Nazi Germany:  Well yah, there was indeed reason to not travel to the Third Reich. But I am pretty certain no Concerned German was advising the Jews to travel to the Third Reich for obvious reasons. Sort of like me, the self-admitted muslim sympathy guy, will not say traveling to Syria or Mosul is a great 2 week get-away.

 

[dialamah]

4 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Who have I declared "not a Muslim".

You sure like making stuff-up.

The most recent example is when you agreed with this statement by GS:

A muslim that doesn't plan to ever kill an apostate cannot declare he is a muslim. DOP is right.

Clearly I'm not making things up.

[DogOnPorch]

1 hour ago, Peter F said:

Re: Fatwas. Well yah, there are indeed many other fatwas promoting killing and terror, almost all of which were issued by clowns unstudied in sharia law and who do not have the qualifications to be issuing fatwas. Yes, there are those fatwas. I understand that to you there is no difference between the two; A fatwa is a fatwa, who gives a shit about the source? Right?

    In any event, you get to live your life in the manner you find most pleasing. As will I. I am not trying to save my azz from fools.  My azz - or head - are right here for the taking. Nor will I seek measures be taken against those who have no intention to follow the will of fools . 

Re: Concerned Germans and Nazi Germany:  Well yah, there was indeed reason to not travel to the Third Reich. But I am pretty certain no Concerned German was advising the Jews to travel to the Third Reich for obvious reasons. Sort of like me, the self-admitted muslim sympathy guy, will not say traveling to Syria or Mosul is a great 2 week get-away.

 

 

I accept your surrender. Try moving to Saudi Arabia.

 

50 minutes ago, dialamah said:

The most recent example is when you agreed with this statement by GS:

A muslim that doesn't plan to ever kill an apostate cannot declare he is a muslim. DOP is right.

Clearly I'm not making things up.

 

The Quran is clear on what to do to Apostates. That you find the Quran repulsive is really not my problem. You don't get to claim I invented it.

[Argus]

11 hours ago, dialamah said:

Do you really think Argus and DoP are the only ones saying these kinds of things?  Do you think they came up with this stuff all by themselves?  Do you think Muslims, including teenagers and young adults, are unaware of the rising anti-Muslim sentiment in Canada?

Not a single terrorist in the West who has left messages about their reasons has ever cited that the people living around them don't like Muslims. And to repeat, you are one of those people who refuses to accept that a lifetime of indoctrination to the Islamic ideology of hate can possibly be influening terrorists, yet you think they'll become terrorists because of some guys on the internet.

Your position is intellectually indefensible.

[dialamah]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

The Quran is clear on what to do to Apostates.

Isn't this one of the many things about which it contradicts itself?

 That you find the Quran repulsive is really not my problem.

Don't you?

You don't get to claim I invented it.

Not something I've claimed; I've only said you are disseminating ISIS' preferred interpretation.

 

[Argus]

11 hours ago, dialamah said:

I'm reading this book I mentioned earlier, criticizing Islam basically.  There is so much contradictory stuff in there, they can believe whatever the F they want, and they're believing in Islam.   It's just like the Bible that way, so the Muslims who accept gays are just as Muslim as the ones who reject gays.

And how many accept gays? Where are the gay clubs, the gay pride parades in the Muslim world? There are none. Half the Muslims in Britain think gays should be in prison. Probably the same in Canada.

11 hours ago, dialamah said:

Which Sharia law, exactly?   There are quite a few to choose from.    

No, there is only one. Your belief otherwise is not supported by fact.

11 hours ago, dialamah said:

________________________________

Now, I'm going to say this one more time, using simple words so you maybe get it:

I do not agree with how Muslim countries are governed.

Another cop-out. This is not about how Muslim countries are governed, especially since your previous post stating that the only reason gays and women had any problems in the Muslim world were because of oppressive governments. It is the PEOPLE who hate gays and who demand women be treated like chattel. It's not the government of Egypt that's sent all those little girls off over the years to have their genitals mutilated, it's MILLIONS of mothers and fathers. And it's not the governments which criminalize blaspheme. Try and insult the prophet in any Muslim street and you'll quickly find yourself mobbed and beaten - quite probably to death.

11 hours ago, dialamah said:

  Objecting to you in your effort to paint all Muslims as the same does not mean I support gay killing/wife beating/pedophilia/etc or the way in which the governments in these countries oppress their citizens.  

But I never portray all Muslims in the same light. I never portray people of any large group in the same light. What I do is to reject your preposterous continued whinging about how only a few 'extremists' are hurting the good name of an an otherwise peaceful and tolerant group. Because according to history, and according to their actions, and according to their opinion polls the majority of world Muslims are neither peaceful nor tolerant.

[Argus]

11 hours ago, dialamah said:

Missed this the first time:  it was the other way around - the will of the people was to rid themselves of the Muslim Brotherhood; Morsi was so determined to remain in power, despite massive protests, that he threatened to let Egyptian blood flow.  That was when the army stepped in and removed him.   At that time, the army was the savior of the people for getting rid of Morsi and Sisi is still widely supported for his actions against the MB.

There were just as massive protests to get the army out, and he won a democratic vote with over 50% support only months earlier. The people continue to tell opinion polls that they want Sharia - 84% of them.

[Argus]

11 hours ago, Peter F said:

Yes I am equating your thoughts to Evil Incarnate.

You are equating my belief that we should not accept as immigrants people who want to kill gays with the belief that gays should be killed.

Do you not see the insanity of that? 

 

[Argus]

10 hours ago, Peter F said:

Some muslim' interpretations, Argus. Some.  But thats not your position is it? No.  All Muslims think that way is your position.

Unless you can find me a point where I said "All Muslims" kindly don't tell me what my position is.

But Muslims who have adopted that severe fundamentalist belief that women must wear black bedsheets over their heads every day? You bet they're misogynistic. And homophobic. 

That you progressive secularists can't seem to comprehend the mindset of religious people continues to lead you to assume they pay as little attention to the tenets of their religion as you do to yours. But that's simply not true.

 

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, dialamah said:

Isn't this one of the many things about which it contradicts itself?

Don't you?

Not something I've claimed; I've only said you are disseminating ISIS' preferred interpretation.

They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah . But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.

https://quran.com/4/89

There is no ISIS version of the Quran. The above is the very popular Sahih International.

Quote

 Or DoP says "If someone who claims to be Muslim doesn't believe he has to be a jihadist, he's not really a Muslim" and endlessly declares how Muslims are a threat to Westerners.

 

I've never said this: but this seems par for the course for you.

Do you even know what a Jihadist is? Jihad is the mysterious 6th Pillar of Islam that nobody in the West ever seems to get....except TE Lawrence. He understood...

http://www.limpidsoft.com/small/sevenpillars.pdf

With Jihad, the believer skips Judgement Day. Any sins you've accumulated are washed clean. You can also nominate others to get a pass into Paradise. Very compelling.

So let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. And he who fights in the cause of Allah and is killed or achieves victory - We will bestow upon him a great reward.

https://quran.com/4/74

 

[Peter F]

6 minutes ago, Argus said:

You are equating my belief that we should not accept as immigrants people who want to kill gays with the belief that gays should be killed.

Do you not see the insanity of that? 

 

Not at all Argus. You are asking me to accept that we need to hinder/restrict immigrants based solely upon thier religion. Not criminal history of the individual applying  but by religion alone. I find such a stance barbaric. 

[Peter F]

4 minutes ago, Argus said:

Unless you can find me a point where I said "All Muslims" kindly don't tell me what my position is.

But Muslims who have adopted that severe fundamentalist belief that women must wear black bedsheets over their heads every day? You bet they're misogynistic. And homophobic. 

That you progressive secularists can't seem to comprehend the mindset of religious people continues to lead you to assume they pay as little attention to the tenets of their religion as you do to yours. But that's simply not true.

 

Lord help me with patience...Do you not see the contrdictions in your statements?

Quote

Unless you can find me a point where I said "All Muslims" kindly don't tell me what my position is.

Quote

   That you progressive secularists can't seem to comprehend the mindset of religious people continues to lead you to assume they pay as little attention to the tenets of their religion as you do to yours. But that's simply not true.

I get it, Argus. You're not claiming that all muslims are the same only that all muslims, by virtue of being Muslims, are the same.

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, Peter F said:

Not at all Argus. You are asking me to accept that we need to hinder/restrict immigrants based solely upon thier religion. Not criminal history of the individual applying  but by religion alone. I find such a stance barbaric. 

 

Not to worry. Islam has a plan for folks like yourself. You can enter into Dhimmitude and pay Islam a bigger tax than you (all of us) already pay*. The Jizya (tax) will be a sign that you accept your 2nd class position and you will be protected under Islamic Law...sort of.

 

* Unbelievers in Canada already pay for Halal Certification when present.

[Argus]

10 hours ago, dialamah said:

Agree with that, but I feel the same about Christianity.

You cannot ever admit that Islam is more of a problem than Christianity. That's why people call you an Muslim apologist. Just like you can't even admit that the west treats women better than Muslim countries. Bring up the misogyny in Egypt and other countries and you'll bleat about something or other in the West, as if they were equivalent. Well they damned well aren't.

10 hours ago, dialamah said:

 It's easy to further demonize Muslims by making the point that Christians aren't carrying out terror attacks as brutal as ones carried out by Muslims, except they are where they can, 

This is absolute bullshit. They CAN ANYWHERE. And they rarely do. You seize on any incident you can find to excuse Islamic violence, usually without having a damned clue about what the incident is about. In the cite you link there has been ongoing violence in the CAF for years due to Islamists overthrowing the government in 2012. Then Christian militias drove the Islamists out of power and the two groups have been fighting tooth and nail ever since.

10 hours ago, dialamah said:

 And really, Christianity has been dragged, kicking and screaming, into our more secular, tolerant and equal society.  

Really? By whom? By Christians.

10 hours ago, dialamah said:

Islam will have to go through the same process, IMO, but I'm no more willing to reject a Muslim with stupid religious views as I am a Christian - as long as those thoughts don't result in illegal activity.

Really? You despise my views, which, in essence, are that we shouldn't be admitting people to Canada who want to execute gays and who think women who show their shoulders are whores. Yet you're not willing to reject people who want to kill gays and jews and beat women to death for being whores. How... tolerant you are.