Ex-Doctor with a bunch of felonies refuses to get off plane and gets what he deserves

[betsy]

On 4/12/2017 at 10:55 AM, hernanday said:

Facts:

-Doctor was charged with over 69 felonies for running a pill mill in Kentucky

-Had his medical license suspended for over a decade

 

 

If we're bringing up past records....we better bring up UA's record too.

 

This airline has a record of treating its customers dismally.  UA doesn't know how to apologise for their mistakes, either.  

 

 

Edited April 13, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

20 hours ago, -TSS- said:

I doubt it would have made the news if the guy hadn't shouted and screamed like a pig about to be taken to be slaughtered.

 

Wouldn't you shout and scream if someone's trying to forcibly drag you off?  When you feel threatened and violated?  What?  Resist quietly?  Is that a normal human reaction?

[Goddess]

9 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

Wouldn't you shout and scream if someone's trying to forcibly drag you off?  When you feel threatened and violated?  What?  Resist quietly?  Is that a normal human reaction?

Oh please!

You act like this guy is some kind of Rosa Parks.

The airline acted badly.

This guy compounded it by having a temper tantrum.

No, I wouldn't have done what this guy did.  Not in a million years.

[betsy]

49 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Oh please!

You act like this guy is some kind of Rosa Parks.

The airline acted badly.

This guy compounded it by having a temper tantrum.

No, I wouldn't have done what this guy did.  Not in a million years.

 

I'd have more than just a temper tantrum too, if I was getting forcibly dragged.  That was a traumatic experience for him.....and for the other passengers, too! 

 

Don't justify the airlines' deplorable handling of this situation.  Their bottomline for overbooking is good old fashion greed!

Edited April 13, 2017 by betsy

[betsy]

Hey Argus, why is it in your title,  "morons" in the plural form?  You must be thinking of the employees, too.

 

Here's another one:

 

 

Edited April 13, 2017 by betsy

[Goddess]

7 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

Don't justify the airlines' deplorable handling of this situation.  

Ahem.....

57 minutes ago, Goddess said:

 

The airline acted badly.

This guy compounded it by having a temper tantrum.

 

Have a blast having hissy fits every time you don't get your own way or life seems unfair, Betsy! 

[Rue]

Well his lawyer claims he lost two teeth, and had a brain concussion and requires plastic surgery for his nose which was broken.

That means big bucks in a civil law suit. You can't when taking someone off a plan use excessive force. The law says your force must be reasonable.

His law suit is easy pickings. He's going to get a settlement. No way United takes this case to a jury and wins.

The nuisance value alone made it big bucks. Add those injuries well they allow for the lawyer to pump up the argument of pain and suffering.

Wouldn't surprise me if this case gets him a million bucks just to shut him up.

Now all that said I agree with Kactus on this one and not Argus. Holy cow that happened.

Unreal. I defer to Kactus on this one.

By the way the character assassination was pure United p.r. damage control. Very stupid move. Its not relevant at all in law. If they think

that made people less sympathetic to this man they are dead wrong.

The stocks don't lie and they plummeted causing huge losses.

Service businesses can't beat up their clients.

We've all been bumped. Its annoying as hell. United should have found another passenger to agree to leave. They found 3 which means in law, they were already aware they could get people to leave without violence. They set their own precedent so to speak on how to handle the matter.  So Judge/Jury  of course will ask why they did not ask someone else to leave and whether they  asked evrry passenger and were told no to  even get to the point where they felt they had no other choice but to remove this particular man, or anyone else for that matter  forcefully.

Then they would need to explain how the force they used was reasonable given the injuries he sustained.

In negligence, if you initiate force, you better be in control of it and cause no injuries  for it to be considered reasonable. You cause injuries on any force you initiate, you open yourself up to liability for the injuries caused.

They probably picked him because he was on an isle, and because he was old and they felt he would not fight back. I doubt they would have done the same thing to a child or woman or disabled person or very small person or a very large heavy person. From what I could see of the tapes its impossible to defend the force caused injuries. The only question is how much money he gets and its already cost United millions in stock value.

This airline and all airlines better think twice. They have been jamming us in like sardines and treating us like crap for years. This is a wake up call to examine their practices.

We've come a long way since air flight was considered something you dressed in your best clothes for and were pampered with meals on real dishes with real handkerchiefs and cutlery and the food was not gelatin from outerspace.

I got bumped. One West Jet bumped me in Winnipeg because all its craft were diverted to fly Grey Cup passengers home. That day it wa snowing and cold of course and the friggin sob at the counter lied to me and said the plane was having mechanical problems and to go home and he would call me tomorrow. I said I lived in Toronto should I walk. He said it was not his problem. Big mistake. I told him he lied to me and I had paid for my ticket and he had to put me up for the night. He said no he did not. He sure as hell did plus the 7 people behind me when I got through with his lie. He gave me a $20.00 coupon for dinner and put us up at the Holliday Inn. A-hole-don't lie, treat people right. Mechanical problem my ass.

The other time my wife and I were headed to London, Englnd. They over-booked so they said. There were over 30 passengers, all of us fully paid with reserved seats told tough luck go home. No not me. I overhead the counter people telling Air Canada employees not part of any crew on standby they would get rid of passengers and bump them up so they could fly to London.

So when they barked at us  paying passengers to stand to a side at a counter like cattle in the chaos, I got up on the counter embarrassing my wife telling everyone I was a lawyer and to write down their contact numbers as I was starting a class action law suit against Air Canada for bumping us for non paying Air Canada employees on stand by. They absolutely freaked out I overheard them.

Well everyone was signing up and shaking my hand when some very pink-red man came running at me and begged me to come with him.

He then said he was putting me on the next flight 3 hours later, first class and my wife would be sitting across from no less then Sean Connery.

He also said since my luggage would be late they would by me a winter coat when I got to London which they did, a very nice black leather coat.. Well the flight was lovely and of course Sean Connery was not on it and they paid for my dinner too and put the other people on other flights and in hotels, and I know because I refused to agree until they did that..

Usually I am a quiet person. I don't like being treated like a stupid sardine thank you However once an airline treats me properly, I am grateful.

I had one other disaster with Air Transat losing my luggage and won $600.00 in small claims court.

I had another flight mishap with Continental but they were really nice and fed me when they over booked my flight and I only hd to wait a few hours or the next flight.

Just treat people right, try not to lose their luggage, acknowledge the inconvenience, try get them on the next available flight an dbe responsible for the meal and if need be lodgings for the night. That is fair. I am willing to do that. Just don't lie to me and don't talk to me like I am an idiot.

You be polite, I appreciate it and will cooperate.

Edited April 13, 2017 by Rue

[Bonam]

This will cost United about a million times more than had they simply kept upping the offer for volunteers willing to get bumped. As well it should. No one with a valid paid fare should ever be forced off a flight, period. 

[Rue]

3 minutes ago, Bonam said:

This will cost United about a million times more than had they simply kept upping the offer for volunteers willing to get bumped. As well it should. No one with a valid paid fare should ever be forced off a flight, period. 

Yah,...unless we volunteer because they compensate us fairly.

[Argus]

4 hours ago, betsy said:

They have not exhausted all the options. ating people like dirt!

Your whole rant is just a big old anti-capitalist complaint that some companies are large and rich. It completely ignores that they were operating within the law, and that they had a perfect right to kick this person off their property at any time for any reason. Just as the police had a duty to evict the guy who was unwanted. There's such a thing as private property, you know. And it doesn't just apply to YOU.  And having paid a ticket is meaningless. The contract between the ticket buyer and the seller is understood to include no guarantee. It says so right on the ticket. They can reschedule you as they chose for any reason they choose to.

You don't want that? Nationalize all businesses, then. Have the government operate them. But you know what? Even if you do they'll operate the same way. Go park your butt in a government office and refuse to leave. See what happens.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Bonam said:

This will cost United about a million times more than had they simply kept upping the offer for volunteers willing to get bumped. As well it should. No one with a valid paid fare should ever be forced off a flight, period. 

Well, if you get your way congratulations. Ticket prices will rise all across the board.

Edited April 13, 2017 by Argus

[Argus]

4 hours ago, betsy said:

It was hard to watch when he ran back to the cabin bleeding.  He seems in shock.

He seems like a moron to me, someone whose drivers license should be taken away and who shouldn't be allowed to vote, someone incapable of acting like an adult and making any rational decisions.

 

[Argus]

5 hours ago, blackbird said:

You're using a completely different set of circumstances.  As a judge I would say inadmissible evidence. Award the passenger damages and expenses.  This was simply for the convenience of the airline company.  They should have found another solution.

The bottom line is the airline was following the law. The passenger was violating the law.

[Guest]

He made a perfectly rational decision. He decided he wasn't going to work, ever again. 

[Bonam]

1 hour ago, Rue said:

Yah,...unless we volunteer because they compensate us fairly.

Right, I agree. That's why the solution should have been to just keep raising the incentive rather than dragging people off the plane. 

[Bonam]

26 minutes ago, Argus said:

Well, if you get your way congratulations. Ticket prices will rise all across the board.

Airlines are a competitive market. The companies that can offer the best service at the best price will do well. There are other options to address the issue of compensating for no-shows by over-booking than dragging people off planes. The established procedure is to get people to volunteer by paying them. That's already baked into the price. This incident will teach airlines to stick to that procedure rather than having idiot employees decide that calling in cops to apply physical force is the right answer. 

[Argus]

Just now, Bonam said:

Airlines are a competitive market. The companies that can offer the best service at the best price will do well. There are other options to address the issue of compensating for no-shows by over-booking than dragging people off planes. The established procedure is to get people to volunteer by paying them. That's already baked into the price. This incident will teach airlines to stick to that procedure rather than having idiot employees decide that calling in cops to apply physical force is the right answer. 

I believe the cops should be called in when someone is breaking the law. If you want to sympathize with the criminal, by all means, do so. Just better hope it doesn't come around to bite you on the ass some day, like when you're waiting in traffic because half a dozen protestors are blocking the freeway for miles in all directions and the police don't dare try to drag them off.

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

The bottom line is the airline was following the law. The passenger was violating the law.

No.   I just heard on the news today the lawyer for the passenger dragged off said the airline police at used excessive force in dragging the passenger off and he said it was illegal.  The man received serious injuries, possible broken jaw and other damage in his face, possibly sinus damage.  He is in hospital and may require surgery;.  Also damaged foot.  Lawyer said it was illegal how he was removed.  Working on a lawsuit now.

[Wilber]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

The bottom line is the airline was following the law. The passenger was violating the law.

Then the airline should press charges. 

I think a civil court is going to disagree bigly.

I think the guy is a tool but I can't believe how badly United handled it.

[Moonlight Graham]

From everything I've read, it seems to me the flight was NOT overbooked.  The man who was dragged paid for his ticket, and was sitting in his proper seat.  What the airline did was find out, probably after these customers bought their seats, that 4 of their employees needed to get on the plane so they could fly (i assume back their homes) to Kentucky.  So instead of apologizing to their 4 employees and giving those employees a free hotel and whatever other compensation, the airline decided to boot 4 passengers, who paid for their tickets and were in their proper seats (I assume).  That shows how little United cares about its customers, and shows you that it far more worries about protecting their own employees than treating their customers with respect.

If this happened to me I wouldn't have given up my seat either.  Go to hell united, and to these police officers or whoever they are.  I hope they're sued for millions.  If these officers touched me they'd be in court very quickly and I'd charge them with assault.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Moonlight Graham

[Wilber]

5 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

From everything I've read, it seems to me the flight was NOT overbooked.  The man who was dragged paid for his ticket, and was sitting in his proper seat.  What the airline did was find out, probably after these customers bought their seats, that 4 of their employees needed to get on the plane so they could fly (i assume back their homes) to Kentucky.  So instead of apologizing to their 4 employees and giving those employees a free hotel and whatever other compensation, the airline decided to boot 4 passengers, who paid for their tickets and were in their proper seats (I assume).  That shows how little United cares about its customers, and shows you that it far more worries about protecting their own employees than treating their customers with respect.

If this happened to me I wouldn't have given up my seat either.  Go to hell united, and to these police officers or whoever they are.  I hope they're sued for millions.  If these officers touched me they'd be in court very quickly and I'd charge them with assault.

My understanding is that those four were crew members needed to operate a flight out of Nashville. If they hadn't got on that flight there would have been a plane full of passengers sitting in Nashville with no one to fly it. No airline I have ever worked for ( and there has been a few) would have pulled paying passengers off an aircraft just to get an employee home. I would be quite surprised if United even based crews in Nashville.

Still, there were much better ways to do it as I have already mentioned.

[blackbird]

Just saw on CNN that the passenger received a broken nose, lost two teeth, received a concussion, and received injuries to his sinus.  He will require reconstructive surgery.  His lawyer says he came from Vietnam in 1975 and what happened to him was more horrifying than what happened to him in Vietnam.  His lawyer says the excessive force use on him was illegal.

United Airlines claims they will make changes so this will never happen again.

[Hal 9000]

13 hours ago, Argus said:

I believe the cops should be called in when someone is breaking the law. If you want to sympathize with the criminal, by all means, do so. Just better hope it doesn't come around to bite you on the ass some day, like when you're waiting in traffic because half a dozen protestors are blocking the freeway for miles in all directions and the police don't dare try to drag them off.

You're clearly trying to be provocative with line of thinking.  There is no way that anybody deserves that type of treatment.  These airlines create their problems by overbooking (or not having flight crews where they need them), and therefore should fix their own problems.  Why does their problem become the problem of a paying customer?  

These airlines should pony with cash (or free flights) until they have the required number or people accepting their offer.  Simple!  What they did was try to cheap out and bully a paying customer - I hope he gets $millions.  

[Wilber]

Just looked it up. No United crew base in Nashville so those four were going to work, not home.

[Wilber]

Companies the size of United have thousands of flights a day and they all have to be crewed. Crew schedulers have to play whack a mole every day as delay's, cancellations, illness or family emergencies screw up their plans.  But as you say, that shouldn't be the passengers problem and but for a few hundred bucks more, we wouldn't have this to talk about.