EVIDENCE FOR GOD

[DogOnPorch]

This year's flu shot is only 10% effective, apparently. 

I wonder what changed?

[blackbird]

7 hours ago, Antares said:

?Impact, your argument here may be unstated, but it's crystal clear and entirely germane. This post deserved a more respectful response.

I'm not entirely sure I intended to be disrespectful.  I didn't.   All I can say is that verse should be understood in the context of the entire chapter, not just a single verse.  Husbands have a responsibility to love their wives as themselves.   In a family, there are occasional times when two people cannot be chiefs.  Most times they work together and come to mutually agreeable decisions that effect the family.  There are certain spheres where one is in charge or the expert such as the wife may be the expert in the kitchen.  There is usually an unwritten understanding that one does not interfere with the other in those areas.   If it comes to a difference of opinion, then they should allow the head of the family to make the decision.  If it is too difficult then maybe seek a counselor and get some third party advice.  Maybe a minister in the church they attend or a friend they can both trust.  This would be extremely unlikely to be needed but it is an option if necessary.

Edited January 19, 2018 by blackbird

[?Impact]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

There are certain spheres where one is in charge or the expert such as the wife may be the expert in the kitchen.  There is usually an unwritten understanding that one does not interfere with the other in those areas.

Stereotypes R US

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

If it comes to a difference of opinion, then they should allow the head of the family to make the decision.

So your understanding is marriage is not a partnership, it is a submission?

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, ?Impact said:

Stereotypes R US

So your understanding is marriage is not a partnership, it is a submission?

It is a covenant relationship, not a master slave relationship.  Partnership is a good word.

Yes, the Bible says "Wives, submit yourselves unto you own husbands, as unto the Lord."  But it also says "Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God."

Further down it says "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it."................."So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies.  He that loveth his wife loveth himself."  Ephesians ch5.

You can't take one verse in isolation from the rest.  They all apply.

[John Prewett]

On 1/18/2018 at 10:41 PM, betsy said:

Mankind though, has the "sin nature." 

https://www.gotquestions.org/sin-nature.html

It's our inheritance.

Satan has deceived the whole world.  Rev 12.  In some parts of the world more blatantly than in other parts of the world.  But "whole world"  ....

and that why "all sin" sooner or later ... some more blatantly than others ....but all "sin"  .... cause we are born into a toxic mental spiritual environment. 

The change due to A&Eve disobedience was not some intrinsic change of the soul of humanity .... the change was that Satan was given the right to tempt and influence humans. 

 

[Michael Hardner]

5 hours ago, John Prewett said:

1. Satan has deceived the whole world.  Rev 12.  In some parts of the world more blatantly than in other parts of the world.  But "whole world"  ....

2. and that why "all sin" sooner or later ... some more blatantly than others ....but all "sin"  .... cause we are born into a toxic mental spiritual environment.

3.The change due to A&Eve disobedience was not some intrinsic change of the soul of humanity .... the change was that Satan was given the right to tempt and influence humans. 

 

1. There is no Satan.  The lessons of religion, and metaphorical stories have been corrupted so that spirituality and ethical behavior is no longer the domain of the religious.  Proof of this is that religious people now support the most hypocritical and unethical person who is antithetical to spiritual living in the form of the US president.

2.  Human beings who follow false prophets and fake religious people are creating the toxic environment.

3.  None of that happened.   People who only follow ethnical living out of fear of damnation are missing the point of religion, and behaving like ignoramouses.

[?Impact]

6 hours ago, John Prewett said:

Satan has deceived the whole world...

... A&Eve disobedience

What about God's dishonesty, he willfully lied when he told Adam and Eve they would die if they ate from the tree in the middle of the garden. Satan told them the truth.

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. There is no Satan.  The lessons of religion, and metaphorical stories have been corrupted so that spirituality and ethical behavior is no longer the domain of the religious.  Proof of this is that religious people now support the most hypocritical and unethical person who is antithetical to spiritual living in the form of the US president.

2.  Human beings who follow false prophets and fake religious people are creating the toxic environment.

3.  None of that happened.   People who only follow ethnical living out of fear of damnation are missing the point of religion, and behaving like ignoramouses.

I think we had proof that ethical behavior was no longer the domain of the religious long before Donald Trump came along.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, ?Impact said:

What about God's dishonesty, he willfully lied when he told Adam and Eve they would die if they ate from the tree in the middle of the garden. Satan told them the truth.

What about God's omnipotence? Why didn't he simply smiteth Satan down and put His program back on track?

[Michael Hardner]

59 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I think we had proof that ethical behavior was no longer the domain of the religious long before Donald Trump came along.

I think it was a toss-up.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I think it was a toss-up.

Basic disagreement here.  Nothing to be done about it.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

I think we had proof that ethical behavior was no longer the domain of the religious long before Donald Trump came along.

 

Very true...but now Trump is blamed for everything...because.

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Very true...but now Trump is blamed for everything...because.

At some point, you need to pronounce that the frog is 'boiled'.  The fact that the current president is generally acknowledged as an icon of decline, and an embodiment of all seven deadly sins AND is praised by evangelicals means Christianity is dead as a trustworthy public institution.  Those of us who once cared will need to find inspiration from the philosophy of Christianity itself moving forward.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

At some point, you need to pronounce that the frog is 'boiled'.  The fact that the current president is generally acknowledged as an icon of decline, and an embodiment of all seven deadly sins AND is praised by evangelicals means Christianity is dead as a trustworthy public institution.  Those of us who once cared will need to find inspiration from the philosophy of Christianity itself moving forward.

 

Seriously ?   Are you proposing that the "decline" is only realized now, despite hundreds of years of very un-Christian behaviours and domination ?

Example:  Ever heard of "residential schools" ?    

[?Impact]

 

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

The fact that the current president is generally acknowledged as an icon of decline, and an embodiment of all seven deadly sins AND is praised by evangelicals means Christianity is dead as a trustworthy public institution.

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.  Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?  Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.  Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.  Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. - Matthew 7:15-21

[Michael Hardner]

33 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Seriously ?   Are you proposing that the "decline" is only realized now, despite hundreds of years of very un-Christian behaviours and domination ?

From my observation, it is so.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

From my observation, it is so.

 

OK....then it must be true...only Trump can define the bottom...not slavery...not residential schools...not clergy buggery.  

[blackbird]

55 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

At some point, you need to pronounce that the frog is 'boiled'.  The fact that the current president is generally acknowledged as an icon of decline, and an embodiment of all seven deadly sins AND is praised by evangelicals means Christianity is dead as a trustworthy public institution.  Those of us who once cared will need to find inspiration from the philosophy of Christianity itself moving forward.

Judging christianity by what is happening in politics or political leaders is a losing proposition.  Biblical christianity is based on the teachings of the Bible, not what some politicians are doing.  Christianity has been around 2000 years and been through it all. 

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. There is no Satan.  The lessons of religion, and metaphorical stories have been corrupted so that spirituality and ethical behavior is no longer the domain of the religious.  Proof of this is that religious people now support the most hypocritical and unethical person who is antithetical to spiritual living in the form of the US president.

2.  Human beings who follow false prophets and fake religious people are creating the toxic environment.

3.  None of that happened.   People who only follow ethnical living out of fear of damnation are missing the point of religion, and behaving like ignoramouses.

I don't see how the Dems or Hillary have any monopoly on ethics.  But it seems Dems want to major on Trumps alleged failings as the main reason why they should be supported.  That's a losing proposition.

[Michael Hardner]

59 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

OK....then it must be true...only Trump can define the bottom...not slavery...not residential schools...not clergy buggery.  

How is it different than residential schools ?  Many ways.

[Michael Hardner]

46 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Judging christianity by what is happening in politics or political leaders is a losing proposition.  Biblical christianity is based on the teachings of the Bible, not what some politicians are doing.  Christianity has been around 2000 years and been through it all. 

I am judging Christian leaders. Christian philosophy is untouched, and in fact predicted this.

[Michael Hardner]

38 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I don't see how the Dems or Hillary have any monopoly on ethics.   

Evangelicals don't support the dems.

[?Impact]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

Judging christianity by what is happening in politics or political leaders is a losing proposition.  Biblical christianity is based on the teachings of the Bible, not what some politicians are doing.  Christianity has been around 2000 years and been through it all. 

 

I don't think that was the point, it is that so called Christians and their leaders are willing to forego their supposed ethics at the polling booth.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

How is it different than residential schools ?  Many ways.

 

Not any different at all...Trump just happens to be the current shiny thing that has your moral attention.

[Michael Hardner]

57 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Not any different at all...Trump just happens to be the current shiny thing that has your moral attention.

No, it's different in major ways.  Amorality isn't your forté anyway, as you are a patriot first before a logician.