EVIDENCE FOR GOD

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, blackbird said:

You have a misunderstanding of christianity.   Before Christ came true believers in God did follow Jusaism.  That is true.  That was the way God ordained to be worshipped from the beginning when he called certain men such as Abraham to the promised land.  Anyone could join and worship the true God.  They would then become a convert and become a Jew.  There may be a special name for them but can't remember right now.  So there were true believers in Old Testament times that were not called christians.  After Christ came, the Old Testament way of worship was set aside by christianity.  Jews who believe in Christ like the Apostle Paul were converted to Christianity. 

 

Uh no. In Abrahamic cults...Jews first...you Xtians much later....the terrorist Muhammadans later after that.

You should all really become Buddists. #1 on the runway. Your invisible man wasn't even a concept when ol' Buddha supposedly figured it all out. 

[blackbird]

29 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

What does that mean? Did God/Jesus have something to say about it, or just Rome?

This is why you need to study the New Testament to understand what happened.  Rome had nothing to do with it.  Peter was not a pope and probably never even was in Rome.

The Old Testament looked forward to a coming Messiah.  There are prophecies which predicted that.  So when Jesus came to earth, that prophecy was fulfilled (Isaiah 9:6) for example.  Those who accepted Christ as Messiah and believed in him were true believers.  I don't know it it uses the word "christian" but they were followers of Christ.  The major apostle Paul was converted on the road to Damascus.  I believe in order to have been an Apostle, one had to have seen the resurrected Christ.  That was one of the qualifications.  So when Christ came, the Old Testament system of animal sacrifices was abolished because Christ was the one all sufficient sacrifice when he died on the cross.  The Old Testament Judaism became redundant.  From the time Christ came, to be a true worshiper of God, one had to believe in Christ as Lord and Savior.  That's why the Old Testament system was no long valid. 

But many Jews did not believe Christ was the Messiah.  They then became followers of a dead religion or no religion.  But they should never have been persecuted as they were in the last 2000 years. 

Edited January 7, 2018 by blackbird

[blackbird]

32 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Uh no. In Abrahamic cults...Jews first...you Xtians much later....the terrorist Muhammadans later after that.

You should all really become Buddists. #1 on the runway. Your invisible man wasn't even a concept when ol' Buddha supposedly figured it all out. 

As I explained, christianity arose out of Judaism when Christ came.  True believers still lived in Old Testament times. .

Jesus himself was a Jew and I believe all of the apostles were Jews who had seen Christ after the resurrection.  They were willing to die for what they believed.  They certainly believed Christ was who he said he was and after they had seen Christ after the resurrection, they became bold believers.  That is what the lawyer I mentioned above found.  He was once a skeptic but after he examined all the evidence, he could not deny that the weight in favour of the resurrection was overwhelming.

Edited January 7, 2018 by blackbird

[?Impact]

7 minutes ago, blackbird said:

That was started as you know around the 7th century, based on the claims of one man.

Yes, the claims of one man should always be questioned.

[blackbird]

2 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Yes, the claims of one man should always be questioned.

Well, it depends on a number of things.  One man's claims can mean something or nothing.   But if a number of people report the same thing as having seen the resurrected Christ, that is something to pay attention to and examine.

[blackbird]

The Bible tells us why there is evil going on in the world and there is a lot of it.  Crime galore, drug dealing, alcohol and drug related serious problems,  social problems, domestic problems, terrorism widespread in the world.  Criminal gangs, rapes, robberies, beatings, etc.   Wars, corruption in governments, countries, law enforcement corruption, etc. etc.  The list would never end.   All this boils down to the human heart which the Bible says is born wicked and corrupt.  Who would deny this is the nature of humans? Not many I would think.

The evidence that God created the universe is all around us.  I can't think of any way that it could come about by accident and I think the world's best scientists will agree.  They can't come up with a plausible reason.  God had a reason why he created the universe and mankind, although we might not fully understand why.  It is only logical.  Perhaps he just enjoys creating things and sharing with mankind.  But you will say why does he allow all the evil things to happen?   I tried to explain he has a long term plan.  All that will come to a conclusion on his timetable.  He doesn't operate on our timetable.  A  day with God is as a thousand years.  Time is a creation too.  It's a human concept based on principles of physics which God created as well.  I prefer to believe what he says rather than rejecting it and risking where I spend eternity.  I'm far from perfect, but that's why Jesus died on the cross, to save sinful people like me.  It's man's only hope and salvation.

[OftenWrong]

8 minutes ago, blackbird said:

All this boils down to the human heart which the Bible says is born wicked and corrupt.  Who would deny this is the nature of humans? Not many I would think.

Looking into the eyes of my newborn children, and raising them, watching them as they grew up, I cannot agree.

[blackbird]

11 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Looking into the eyes of my newborn children, and raising them, watching them as they grew up, I cannot agree.

Yes, newborns and little kids are cute.  It's not the point.  Babies and little kids are in a different situation and may not be accountable to same degree as somebody older with some understanding who does something bad.  But according to the Bible, people are still born with that sinful nature although it may not be evident until they get older.  So you don't agree that people in general are sinful or in rebellion against God.  People that don't accept God as a fact are opposing him to begin with according to the Bible.  Talking about babies and little children, whom Jesus said he loved, misses the point.  We are talking about the Biblical teaching of mankind in general.

Edited January 8, 2018 by blackbird

[taxme]

On 1/6/2018 at 4:35 PM, blackbird said:

It's a shame because it is extremely important and the argument makes complete sense.  It would only take a few minutes to read anyway.  It's up to you.

Jesus warned about a place called hell a number of times.  So if he really did rise from the dead and was telling the truth, we need to pay attention.

So, where did god come from then? Was he born? Did god have parents? That is the real question of the day that needs to be answered. Can you? 

[blackbird]

14 minutes ago, taxme said:

So, where did god come from then? Was he born? Did god have parents? That is the real question of the day that needs to be answered. Can you? 

God always existed.  He is eternal.  Always was and always will be.   No, he was not born.   He had no parents because he always existed.  He is not part of the material universe.  He is separate from that.

The Bible says he created man in his image.  So man is a special creation.  The Bible says Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God. "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature."  Colossians 1:15   That means Jesus Christ already existed.  He was there before any of his creation.  God is a trinity, three persons in one God:  God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.   As far as we know they always existed.  God used his Son to create the universe.

 

Edited January 8, 2018 by blackbird

[taxme]

On 1/6/2018 at 4:58 PM, blackbird said:

I believe these things prophesied are going to take place.  Israel was God's chosen people in the Old Testament, although anybody could convert to Judaism in those days.  Since Christ came one must be converted to Christ to be saved.  I think it is far safer to be a believer and be saved.  We have always had disasters, yes, but maybe they are getting worse.  Seems to be a lot of hurricanes, tornadoes and floods in the U.S.  Earthquakes in Asia, Japan, south America too.  We can see the new world order creeping in.  Trudeau trying to get in thick with the UN and climate change gang.  Maybe Trump will slow it down.  But what is prophesied, will happen at some point.  Things look a little shaky with North Korea and Iran as well.  Iran is a sworn enemy of Israel.  Israel is a democracy and a friend of the west.  We need to stand behind them.

.

 

When half of North America was covered in snow and ice hundreds of feet deep thousand of years ago, and it all later melted away, would you say that was one big environmental disaster? And after the big melt half the world if not more was then covered in water. The damage and the floods created by the melting of all of that ice to lands around the world must have been one big environmental disaster. But the earth still survived.

All the worlds weather events that are happening today may be due to some kind of continental shifts or ocean currents changing their directions of travel and that could be why we seem to be having more weather events. I don't think that it is anything to worry about. I am not. As humans we will just have to learn to live with it. We will survive somehow because we will have too because there will be no other choice. I think that it may have something to do with the media once again in there always trying to make mountains out of mole hills. Who knows. 

[blackbird]

6 minutes ago, taxme said:

When half of North America was covered in snow and ice hundreds of feet deep thousand of years ago, and it all later melted away, would you say that was one big environmental disaster? And after the big melt half the world if not more was then covered in water. The damage and the floods created by the melting of all of that ice to lands around the world must have been one big environmental disaster. But the earth still survived.

All the worlds weather events that are happening today may be due to some kind of continental shifts or ocean currents changing their directions of travel and that could be why we seem to be having more weather events. I don't think that it is anything to worry about. I am not. As humans we will just have to learn to live with it. We will survive somehow because we will have too because there will be no other choice. I think that it may have something to do with the media once again in there always trying to make mountains out of mole hills. Who knows. 

Yes.  Climate change is the fad or rage now.  I think a lot of people blame the weather events happening now on climate change.  Could be climate change but climate has always changed.  I don't think man can stop the climate from changing or control the earth's temperature.  I found fossils near here in a creekbed above sea level.  When I lived up in northwest BC, there are fossil beds that are around 2000 feet above sea level or higher.  Could have been caused by Noah's flood when the water covered the earth.

Edited January 8, 2018 by blackbird

[taxme]

On 1/6/2018 at 5:31 PM, ?Impact said:

So what is new?

The eyes of the Lord are in every place, beholding the evil and the good. = Proverbs 15:3

Behold, the eye of the Lord is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy; - Psalm 33:18

The people that need to be feared the most are the globalist elite, and their puppet on a string politicians, who will sell your soul to the NWO devil if it means more money and power for them. Trudeau was once seen sitting with billionaire G. Soros, and took a vacation trip to the billionaire Aga Khans island. Does that look like JT is a PM for we the people to you?  

For evil to exist is for good men/women to do nothing. Right now it would appear as though all the good men and women on earth prefer to do nothing. 

[OftenWrong]

10 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Yes, newborns and little kids are cute.  It's not the point.  Babies and little kids are in a different situation and may not be accountable to same degree as somebody older with some understanding who does something bad.  But according to the Bible, people are still born with that sinful nature although it may not be evident until they get older.  So you don't agree that people in general are sinful or in rebellion against God.  People that don't accept God as a fact are opposing him to begin with according to the Bible.  Talking about babies and little children, whom Jesus said he loved, misses the point.  We are talking about the Biblical teaching of mankind in general.

I did not reference "cute", but rather that children are not born wicked and corrupt as you said. There was absolutely nothing wicked or corrupt in my children at least for the first several years of their life. It's one thing to say the POTENTIAL is there, but that potential does not necessarily need to be realized.

-> So you don't agree that people in general are sinful or in rebellion against God.

I never said that, but if you want to think so, go ahead. My view is, talking about a personal god such as you do entirely misses the point. What gives you the right to cast god in your image? That seems arrogant. Perhaps your form of proselytising is unacceptably simple to many who are too intelligent to accept it, and might even turn them away from searching for deeper meaning in their life and finding answers to the dilemma of existence, because they cannot believe in such a simple and conflicted narrative. Ever thought of that?

[taxme]

29 minutes ago, blackbird said:

God always existed.  He is eternal.  Always was and always will be.   No, he was not born.   He had no parents because he always existed.  He is not part of the material universe.  He is separate from that.

The Bible says he created man in his image.  So man is a special creation.  The Bible says Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God. "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature."  Colossians 1:15   That means Jesus Christ already existed.  He was there before any of his creation.  God is a trinity, three persons in one God:  God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.   As far as we know they always existed.  God used his Son to create the universe.

 

Impossible for a god to always have existed. In the first place there was nothing, and what you are trying to push here is that all of a sudden poof something came from nothing and suddenly here's Johnny(god). There is no way and impossible for something to come from nothing. Although something happened which I cannot explain or figure out but voila here we are. 

[blackbird]

7 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I did not reference "cute", but rather that children are not born wicked and corrupt as you said. There was absolutely nothing wicked or corrupt in my children at least for the first several years of their life. It's one thing to say the POTENTIAL is there, but that potential does not necessarily need to be realized.

-> So you don't agree that people in general are sinful or in rebellion against God.

I never said that, but if you want to think so, go ahead. My view is, talking about a personal god such as you do entirely misses the point. What gives you the right to cast god in your image? That seems arrogant. Perhaps your form of proselytising is unacceptably simple to many who are too intelligent to accept it, and might even turn them away from searching for deeper meaning in their life and finding answers to the dilemma of existence, because they cannot believe in such a simple and conflicted narrative. Ever thought of that?

When I speak about say born wicked or corrupt, I am not referring to children.  And I am not quoting the word for word Bible verses.  On one hand people want to hear one's opinion but when I give it of course if always falls short.  I do the best I can and don't claim perfection in my words or thoughts.  It is impossible to speak if one is going to wait for perfect words and ideas.  Communicating doesn't work like that.   Whenever one speaks about the Bible or God, of course someone who doesn't believe it will think it's arrogant.  I can't do anything about that.  I only say what I believe.  You don't have to believe anything I say.  You are better off to check into it yourself from the Bible or sources that explain things in the Bible that one can trust. 

I don't mean to sound arrogant.  If I come across that way, I apologize.   Regarding people being sinful, this is what the Bible actually says:

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans ch3 vs 9-23

I have included extra verses there to give the context.  The apostle Paul was speaking about Jews and Gentiles.  Those are the two categories of people discussed in those parts of the Bible.

 

[blackbird]

11 minutes ago, taxme said:

Impossible for a god to always have existed. In the first place there was nothing, and what you are trying to push here is that all of a sudden poof something came from nothing and suddenly here's Johnny(god). There is no way and impossible for something to come from nothing. Although something happened which I cannot explain or figure out but voila here we are. 

No.   First I never said God appeared from nothing.  I think any theologian or Bible scholar will say God always existed.  That is accepted as a given by believers in God.  It is kind of like in science where do an experiment to prove something.  You make certain assumptions or have certain building blocks.   God's eternal existence is as basic belief or assumption if you will.  It must be so because nothing else makes any sense otherwise.

Also, secondly, you said it is impossible for something to come from nothing.   That is another reason why God always existed.  He did not come from nothing.  That would not make sense either.

It is also a reason to believe God created the universe because the universe had to have a beginning.  It too did not come from nothing by it's own power.  God created it.

Edited January 8, 2018 by blackbird

[blackbird]

taxme,   I should add the important fact is the Holy Scriptures teach God as eternal, with no beginning and no end.  Perhaps I was not correct to say it is an assumption.   It is correct to say it is what the Bible teaches. 

This is how God identified himself to Moses and through Moses to Israel at the time of the Exodus.

When Moses was speaking with God in Exodus ch3, "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."  Exodus ch3:14

15  And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

16 Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and seen that which is done to you in Egypt:

Exodus ch3: 15, 16

Edited January 8, 2018 by blackbird

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

I did not reference "cute", but rather that children are not born wicked and corrupt as you said. There was absolutely nothing wicked or corrupt in my children at least for the first several years of their life. It's one thing to say the POTENTIAL is there, but that potential does not necessarily need to be realized.

-> So you don't agree that people in general are sinful or in rebellion against God.

I never said that, but if you want to think so, go ahead. My view is, talking about a personal god such as you do entirely misses the point. What gives you the right to cast god in your image? That seems arrogant. Perhaps your form of proselytising is unacceptably simple to many who are too intelligent to accept it, and might even turn them away from searching for deeper meaning in their life and finding answers to the dilemma of existence, because they cannot believe in such a simple and conflicted narrative. Ever thought of that?

There is one point of view in the Westminster Confession of Faith, which is not the Bible or inspired Scripture.  It is however taught and believed to be what the Bible teaches by major denominations such as the Presbyterian and Reformed Churches.  It was drawn up in England about 1640.   In the Reformed churches, which originated in the Netherlands and Geneva (John Calvin)   they call it the doctrine of Total Depravity.  It is part of Calvinism.

The Confession says  in Chapter VI.  Of the Fall of Man, of Sin, and of the Punishment Thereof

1. Our first parents being seduced by the subtilty and temptation of Satan, sinned in eating the forbidden fruit.  This their sin God was pleased, according to his wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to his own glory.

2. By this sin they fell from their original righteousness and communion with God, and so became dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and body.

 

Edited January 8, 2018 by blackbird

[?Impact]

13 hours ago, blackbird said:

 I found fossils near here in a creekbed above sea level.  When I lived up in northwest BC, there are fossil beds that are around 2000 feet above sea level or higher.  Could have been caused by Noah's flood when the water covered the earth.

Where did all those waters receded into? Please quote me some of that Christian pseudo science, I will take it apart with a razor.

[Goddess]

14 hours ago, blackbird said:

This is how God identified himself to Moses and through Moses to Israel at the time of the Exodus.

When Moses was speaking with God in Exodus ch3, "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM

I thought Popeye said that?

[taxme]

3 hours ago, ?Impact said:

Where did all those waters receded into? Please quote me some of that Christian pseudo science, I will take it apart with a razor.

Darn good question. Where did all that flood water go?  The bible is starting to appear as though it is all just a fictional story that only Hollyweird could produce.  

[DogOnPorch]

3 minutes ago, taxme said:

Darn good question. Where did all that flood water go?  The bible is starting to appear as though it is all just a fictional story that only Hollyweird could produce.  

 

They all are. The Bhagavad Gita is one of the funner ones to actually read, though. Krishna, as I've mentioned before, displayed a very relaxed attitude towards sex that I REALLY WISH the others would adopt. 

Here's one...

Stealing the Garments of the Unmarried Gopi Girls

[taxme]

43 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

They all are. The Bhagavad Gita is one of the funner ones to actually read, though. Krishna, as I've mentioned before, displayed a very relaxed attitude towards sex that I REALLY WISH the others would adopt. 

Here's one...

Stealing the Garments of the Unmarried Gopi Girls

Just another silly ass religious cult. 

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, taxme said:

Just another silly ass religious cult. 

 

Oh sure...but you know...Kama Sutra and all that Twister™ stuff.