Justin Trudeau the Worst PM Since Pierre Trudeau?

[Hates politicians]

On 12/12/2018 at 4:35 AM, Iznogoud said:

Scheer's problem is not that he is too liberal, it is that he is too much of a lightweight.  The Conservatives made the mistake of choosing another climate denier as their leader, despite the fact that most Canadians seem quite aware of climate change, and the NDP made the mistake of not sticking with Thomas Mulcair.  I'm not saying that choosing Jasmeet Singh as leader was not a bold move, but he does not seem to have caught the imagination of the Canadian public.  A weak NDP generally means another Liberal victory. 

Scheer is no better than turd and singh is just a clown with a diaper on his head. Mulcair was nothing but a talking head. Say lots of words and none of it is worth listening to.

[bush_cheney2004]

The Trudeau government's poor relationship with China is having a material impact on proposed auto sector investment, made all the more urgent because of the pending GM Oshawa plant closure.    "Diplomacy" use to be a Canadian strength....until Justin Trudeau came along.    Sunny ways !

 

Quote

Several Chinese automakers planning to expand production into Canada have put their plans on hold over the Vancouver arrest of Chinese telecom giant Huawei's CFO, says Flavio Volpe, president of the Automotive Parts Manufacturers' Association.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/volpe-china-car-produciton-halted-1.4949824

 

[Zeitgeist]

Just watched Trudeau explain on the CBC why he hasn't asked President Xi directly for the immediate release of the two Canadians.  He said he was giving diplomacy a chance to work first.  One of Harper's first orders of business when he became PM was to slam China on a range of issues and cling to that distrust until given a damn good reason to think otherwise.  Instead we have a PM who won't demand the immediate release of two kidnapped Canadians.  We need to see the back of this guy in a hurry.

[Iznogoud]

7 hours ago, Hates politicians said:

Scheer is no better than turd and singh is just a clown with a diaper on his head. Mulcair was nothing but a talking head. Say lots of words and none of it is worth listening to.

Racist comments aside, I think you might be right about Singh.  But Mulcair had a very forceful personality and was beginning to slowly become better known.  Sometimes it makes sense to stay with the leader you already have despite a single election setback. 

Edited December 18, 2018 by Iznogoud

[Argus]

13 hours ago, Iznogoud said:

Racist comments aside, I think you might be right about Singh.  But Mulcair had a very forceful personality and was beginning to slowly become better known.  Sometimes it makes sense to stay with the leader you already have despite a single election setback. 

Sure wish the Conservatives had done that.

[turningrite]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

Sure wish the Conservatives had done that.

The Conservatives needed a new leader because Harper had served in the PM role long enough and had accumulated significant baggage. It's unfortunate he didn't step down a few months prior to the 2015 election, in which case a new leader might have had a decent chance to beat the Libs or at least hold them to a minority. As for Singh, the NDP has flailed under his leadership. I'm not sure whether this is due to poor leadership or, as I think more likely, that the NDP is a party without any kind of coherent cause at present. It largely mimics Lib/progressive nonsense and seems to have utterly abandoned the interests of ordinary working Canadians in favor of promoting trendier progressive causes. The Libs seem to want the NDP to retain Singh as leader in order to scoop up traditional NDP supporters in the 2019 election. Personally, I think a weak NDP is more important to enhancing Lib fortunes than Bernier is any kind of boon to their chances. Bernier might at least force the immigration issue into the election debate, which could well serve to undermine both Lib and NDP support.

[Hates politicians]

15 hours ago, Iznogoud said:

Racist comments aside, I think you might be right about Singh.  But Mulcair had a very forceful personality and was beginning to slowly become better known.  Sometimes it makes sense to stay with the leader you already have despite a single election setback. 

Putting  boob in a leader will get you nowhere period. With turd its because of his name. If his name was justin brown he would'nt be where he is. All these clowns turd scheer singh could'nt lead a pack of wolves to a fresh kill. We need someone with common sense and the willingness to tell a lot of people to f.o and clean house big time.

[Argus]

3 hours ago, turningrite said:

The Conservatives needed a new leader because Harper had served in the PM role long enough and had accumulated significant baggage. 

I don't disagree, but you know, given the current situation, where Trudeau looks so over his head, and world leaders are batting him around like a piñata, I bet Canadians would be interested in the idea of a strong leader who can be a mean SOB. And I don't see that in Scheer.

[turningrite]

17 hours ago, Argus said:

I don't disagree, but you know, given the current situation, where Trudeau looks so over his head, and world leaders are batting him around like a piñata, I bet Canadians would be interested in the idea of a strong leader who can be a mean SOB. And I don't see that in Scheer.

I'm not a Scheer fan either. I think he was a compromise candidate who won by wooing special interests but otherwise appearing to be innocuous. Personally, I think the CPC backed the wrong horse in the contest between Scheer and Bernier. Bernier's certainly not afraid to challenge sacred cows, if you'll excuse the pun.

Edited December 19, 2018 by turningrite

[Queenmandy85]

15 minutes ago, turningrite said:

Bernier's certainly not afraid to challenge sacred cows, if you'll excuse the pun.

Politics is the art of accumulating support without alienating people. Elections in Canada are usually lost, not won. Mr. Sheer's best chance is to let Prime Minister Trudeau alienate enough people that the electorate will want him defeated. A really good indicator of how strong the Prime Minister is is the language his opponents are using. Calling people names is indicative of a weak arguement. 

[turningrite]

14 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Politics is the art of accumulating support without alienating people. Elections in Canada are usually lost, not won. Mr. Sheer's best chance is to let Prime Minister Trudeau alienate enough people that the electorate will want him defeated. A really good indicator of how strong the Prime Minister is is the language his opponents are using. Calling people names is indicative of a weak arguement. 

I think more voters than you might imagine are willing to consider supporting politicians and parties that actually stand up for something and tackle unpleasant realities. We've seen what Trudeau stands for and hopefully a lot of voters will want to give his sunshine, unicorns and subsidies approach a pass by the time next year's election rolls around. And we could be in a recession again, which will make it more difficult for him to burnish his sunny brand. Those who won't support Trudeau and who also see the NDP as hopeless will have to decide whom to back. I think the hope for many is that Scheer will take more forthright stands on issues, like immigration, that a lot of Canadians would like to see debated. If he decides that he just wants to appear friendly and agreeable, will that attract much support? If people want fluff, there's always Justin. Nobody can outfluff JT. Bernier, on the other hand, seems willing to tackle difficult and contentious issues. There's more to politics than just being liked.

[Queenmandy85]

The pipeline issue is an interesting one. While the real obstacle in the BC Government, Alberta takes its anger out on the Federal Government. 

Why is Alberta's desire for money more important the BC's desire to protect its environment. If the pipeline is built, Alberta gets all the money and BC takes all the risk. 

From the Prime Minister's position, I would think that, no matter what he does, he is not going to get electoral support in Alberta. Whereas, he could at least maintain his support in BC. Also, if polling trends continue, he is headed for a minority government next year. Who is he going to turn to for support? Bernier? The Greens are coming up in the polls but the NDP will be the main source of support. I would bet that the Feds have already written off Notley. Kenny is preaching he can magically over ride the Supreme Court, increase the price of oil, get the BC Government to back down and convince China to forgive us for adhering to the rule of law and buy our oil. Oh, and he wants people to believe he can get the pipeline built instantly. 

[Queenmandy85]

18 minutes ago, turningrite said:

There's more to politics than just being liked.

No, the whole point is not to be hated. JT ran into his main problems early in the last campaign when the best he could hope for was to become leader of the opposition. That is when he made his electoral reform promise, knowing he would never have to do it. He must have known the NDP would block it. His promise to run a deficit was a good one. We all knew that a promise to balance the budget was a lie and Mulcair paid the price for that. After the election, the ways were sunny until, the Americans went a little bit nuts and elected Mr. Trump. Who would have thought?

Bernier is out of touch with the centerist voters. You cannot form a government without the support of Red Tories and Blue Liberals gathered in the tent with Blue Tories. 

[Queenmandy85]

33 minutes ago, turningrite said:

I think more voters than you might imagine are willing to consider supporting politicians and parties that actually stand up for something and tackle unpleasant realities

If that is the case, Elizabeth May will be our next Prime Minister. 

[turningrite]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

No, the whole point is not to be hated. JT ran into his main problems early in the last campaign when the best he could hope for was to become leader of the opposition. That is when he made his electoral reform promise, knowing he would never have to do it. He must have known the NDP would block it. His promise to run a deficit was a good one. We all knew that a promise to balance the budget was a lie and Mulcair paid the price for that. After the election, the ways were sunny until, the Americans went a little bit nuts and elected Mr. Trump. Who would have thought?

Bernier is out of touch with the centerist voters. You cannot form a government without the support of Red Tories and Blue Liberals gathered in the tent with Blue Tories. 

The NDP would have blocked electoral reform? If you actually believe this, I think you're deeply deluded. The NDP has argued for some form of proportional representation for decades. My understanding is that Trudeau's Libs likely only favored one form of electoral reform, the ranked ballot, which didn't have the support of the other major parties nor broad public support. When its own preference wouldn't fly, the concept of electoral reform was unceremoniously tossed out the window. I refer to such behavior as an example of 'a Liberal promise'.

As for Trudeau's view on deficits, we all know they balance themselves, right? That's what he said. Voters were willing to see the federal government run deficits in the short term. Now the Libs are admitting that deficit financing will continue for decades to come.

We'll see how Bernier does. I think it much too early to judge his impact. Don't forget that according to polling only weeks before the last election the NDP looked to be sailing toward a majority government. Events and campaigns actually do attract the attention and changes the opinions of voters.

[Queenmandy85]

9 minutes ago, turningrite said:

The NDP has argued for some form of proportional representation for decades.

That is what I meant. PR is the worst form of electoral process ever introduced. The situation in BC is an anomaly but if they had PR, you would have a permanent situation where 3 jokers from the Green Party at calling all the shots for BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan and the Feds. PR hands control over to a few people. Instead of having a local person as your MP, (s)he will be some bagman from the party backroom who's never heard of your riding. That is the kind of " electoral reform" the NDP tried to foist on us. JT's promise was stupid but he tried to make it work. The best way to make FPTP work is to ignore the splinter parties and vote either for the  Conservative party and the Liberals. They pretty much cover everything that is reasonable.

[Queenmandy85]

29 minutes ago, turningrite said:

We'll see how Bernier does.

My issue with Bernier is his lack of scientific literacy more than is lack of political acumen.

[turningrite]

15 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

That is what I meant. PR is the worst form of electoral process ever introduced. The situation in BC is an anomaly but if they had PR, you would have a permanent situation where 3 jokers from the Green Party at calling all the shots for BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan and the Feds. PR hands control over to a few people. Instead of having a local person as your MP, (s)he will be some bagman from the party backroom who's never heard of your riding. That is the kind of " electoral reform" the NDP tried to foist on us. JT's promise was stupid but he tried to make it work. The best way to make FPTP work is to ignore the splinter parties and vote either for the  Conservative party and the Liberals. They pretty much cover everything that is reasonable.

And yet it's a system used in many very successful democracies. Democracies that don't use it, including the U.S., Britain and Canada, seem to have a more difficult time engaging voters, perhaps because many believe the mainstream parties offer very little real choice. I have no concerns with permitting a voice to what JT caustically described as "fringe" parties. It's a little thing called democracy, I guess, to which I remain attached. JT had no interest in electoral reform beyond perhaps considering one model, the ranked ballot, which some believe would have favored his party more than any other.

10 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

My issue with Bernier is his lack of scientific literacy more than is lack of political acumen.

Wishful thinking on your part perhaps? What do you know of his scientific literacy? His political acumen will be tested over the coming year. Scheer won the CPC leadership the old-fashioned way, by getting the support of special interests, including the dairy and social conservative lobbies. The latter, in particular, might end up dragging him down, in which case we might have to question his political acumen. Harper knew enough to keep the so-cons out of sight.

Edited December 19, 2018 by turningrite

[bush_cheney2004]

Has Justin Trudeau reach a new low ?    Another Canadian national has been detained in China and all Trudeau can do is pose for more selfies.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadian-detained-china-third-1.4951950

Justin Trudeau...meet....Jimmy Carter.

 

[Icur12c]

A lot of developments.  I think of the two Bush's, something there.

[bush_cheney2004]

Even Canada's state broadcaster is piling on now....the Trudeau government has managed to alienate allies and make more enemies around the world, while at the same time opening old domestic wounds with Alberta.     Sunny ways !

 

Quote

It's increasingly evident, as 2018 limps to a close, that Canada is more isolated on the world stage now than it has been in decades — thanks in large part to an indifferent neighbour to the south and the rise of isolationist and populist leaders in other parts of the world.

... "In each of those cases it's clear that no one has Canada's back," he said. "In that sense, Canada is indeed all alone. We did not see any of Canada's traditional friends and allies coming out and standing with Canada."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-trump-china-saudi-2018-1.4952977

 

[Queenmandy85]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

the Trudeau government has managed to alienate allies and make more enemies around the world, while at the same time opening old domestic wounds with Alberta

The Federal Government is caught between a rock ( the US) and a hard place (Weaver in BC). They have a choice between taking the hits or breaking the law. This is a gift to Mr. Sheer if he doesn't over play it and President Trump loses the 2020 election.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The Federal Government is caught between a rock ( the US) and a hard place (Weaver in BC). They have a choice between taking the hits or breaking the law. This is a gift to Mr. Sheer if he doesn't over play it and President Trump loses the 2020 election.

 

Agreed....it is another amateur hour for the Trudeau government.   The whining excuses about Trump will only go so far.

Edited December 20, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[Queenmandy85]

Not President Trump. It is China that is cavalier with the law. Kenny, Notley and Moe are also acting like the stereotypical liberals sense of entitlement. When there is a glut of potash on the world market, we don't have demonstrations in Saskatchewan. When the price of copper falls, we don't hear demands that the Federal Government magically raise the world market price. No, we shut down and do something else. Why does Alberta's desire for money trump BC's desire to protect their environment?  Why do the proponent's of TM pipeline believe the Federal Government should violate the order of the Supreme Court and the policies of the BC Government? What make's Alberta's desire to enrich the foreign owned oil companies more important than our environment?

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Not President Trump. It is China that is cavalier with the law. Kenny, Notley and Moe are also acting like the stereotypical liberals sense of entitlement. When there is a glut of potash on the world market, we don't have demonstrations in Saskatchewan. When the price of copper falls, we don't hear demands that the Federal Government magically raise the world market price. No, we shut down and do something else. Why does Alberta's desire for money trump BC's desire to protect their environment?  Why do the proponent's of TM pipeline believe the Federal Government should violate the order of the Supreme Court and the policies of the BC Government? What make's Alberta's desire to enrich the foreign owned oil companies more important than our environment?

I hear you, but pipelines are more environmentally friendly than shipping by truck or rail.  Also, we all benefit from the royalties and employment provided by the oil sands.  I think we have to find a way to provide oil jobs but meet environmental goals.  I know it's not an easy line to walk.