"Homegrown" Terrorists

[betsy]

Yesterday at the CBC, Carole MacNeil and her guest talked about Trump's latest immigration/refugee policy - temporary ban on Muslims, and extreme screening and vetting.  They painted it as a bigotted decision against a people of a particular religion (Islam).  And then, MacNeal added to this effect, that the terrorists in America were mostly home-grown.

Because terrorists were home-grown.....that means, Islam has nothing to do with it?  That therefore, Trump's policy makes no sense?

 

Are you daft, woman?   Who is likely to get radicalized to commit jihad in the name of Allah?  Christians?  Jews?  Buddhists?

 

Yes, there are copycats!  Non-Muslims who end up doing terrorist acts - getting inspired by the violence and mayhem. Nothing new about that!  Why do you think we've got a lot of school massacres going on?  They were inspired by Columbine....or by Ecole Polythenique.!   But the new acts of random violence cropping up - for whatever reason they may or may not have - are now likely to be inspired by Islamic terrorism. 

 

Quote

 

In recent weeks, we have watched the Toronto terrorism investigation unfold. To date, 17 suspects have been arrested in an alleged terrorist plot to bomb several prominent buildings in Toronto and Ottawa and to behead the prime minister.

These men did not merely talk of taking action; they tried to purchase three tons of ammonium nitrate fertilizer. That is three times the amount used in the Oklahoma City bombing.

Although the Canadian authorities uncovered this plot before these men harmed anyone, we face the sobering fact that yet another group of extremists planned a terrorist attack and took steps to execute that attack.

 

 

The evolution from extremism to terrorism can take place anywhere, from academic settings, mosques, prisons, and community centers to the Internet.

Schools and universities, for example, are both open as well as isolated. Many students are at an impressionable age, and are seeking ways to establish their own unique identities.

Prisons are also fertile ground for extremists. Inmates may be drawn to an extreme form of Islam because it may help justify their violent tendencies. These persons represent a heightened threat because of their criminal histories, their propensity for violence, and their contacts with fellow criminals.

The four suspected terrorists arrested last year in Torrance, California were recruited by one Kevin James, the founder of a radical group called J.I.S. James founded J.I.S from his cell in Folsom Prison in California. He recruited fellow inmates and radicals outside prison to join his mission, which was to kill those he saw as "infidels."

 

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/speeches/the-threat-of-homegrown-terrorism

 

 

The fact that people can get radicalized through social media is one big reason why you've got to do extreme vetting and screening. 

Choosing an immigrant that shares the values of a hosting country is paramount!  If his values/ideology contradicts yours - what you have is already a major ground for conflict! 

 

They say frustration usually is a cause for radicalization.  How many among us frustrated in life had committed terrorism?  Why is it so easy for a frustrated person to become a terrorist and kill innocent people?  Look at the Orlando terrorist - he killed gays and lesbians!  It becomes easy to act out violence against someone you think "deserves" it anyway.  

 

If a person's religious upbringing contradicts the values of society, he'll be dealing with conflicting emotions!  Sometimes, depending on how deeply religious a person is, he'll end up upholding his belief at some point in his life. 

Children, borne and growing up in America, raised by parents who deeply adheres to a religion, will of course raise their children the same way.  These children may not follow in their parents' footsteps.....but some, will.  At some point in their life, they'll become like their parents.   

 

I wasn't religious when I was growing up, and as a young adult, but I hit that stage in life when I suddenly yearn for spirituality and God......and had now become the same as my parents.

 

So, home-grown my **s.  It still goes all the way back to the root.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2017 by betsy

[BubberMiley]

So what? His actions are cowardly, stupid, and counter-productive. The key word being counter-productive.

[bush_cheney2004]

Actually, President Trump did Canada a favour, since Trudeau wants as many immigrants and refugees as possible.

All refugees can now go directly to Canada's open arms and taxpayer funded freebees.   Everybody wins !

 

[betsy]

2 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

So what? His actions are cowardly, stupid, and counter-productive. The key word being counter-productive.

How is it counter-productive?  Explain!

 

 

Edited January 29, 2017 by betsy

[Rue]

6 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Actually, President Trump did Canada a favour, since Trudeau wants as many immigrants and refugees as possible.

All refugees can now go directly to Canada's open arms and taxpayer funded freebees.   Everybody wins !

 

Be quiet. Celine Dion can create havoc in your nation with one signal from me.

[Topaz]

Trump is just looking after his country like he vowed he would and IF a newbie did something u know the media would be all over him, this guy can't win but having said that, he should get the security to triple check people that have been allowed to come in right now. Maybe if the West stay out wars  the West wouldn't have so many problems.

[betsy]

19 minutes ago, Topaz said:

Maybe if the West stay out wars  the West wouldn't have so many problems.

 

I think I agree with you that fighting wars in those places is a big problem.  People end up resenting you even if what you're doing is for their own good.

Right now, the best thing imho, is just to get solid allies, and watch each other's back.

[Smallc]

Homegrown terrorists aren't always Muslims.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Smallc said:

Homegrown terrorists aren't always Muslims.

 

But no reason to just roll over for the terrorists who are.

[Boges]

On 29 January, 2017 at 7:42 AM, bush_cheney2004 said:

Actually, President Trump did Canada a favour, since Trudeau wants as many immigrants and refugees as possible.

All refugees can now go directly to Canada's open arms and taxpayer funded freebees.   Everybody wins !

Except from Egypt, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. You know, countries where actual terrorists have come from. 

[bush_cheney2004]

President Trump isn't done yet.....

[Boges]

29 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

President Trump isn't done yet.....

Cite that he has mentioned he plans to extend the bannings. 

Courts will throw out the order before the 90 days is done. 

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, Boges said:

Cite that he has mentioned he plans to extend the bannings. 

Courts will throw out the order before the 90 days is done. 

 

I don't think so....parts of the ban will remain legal.   U.S. Code says so.

[Rue]

Here's a summary of why Trump's arbitrary ban on Muslims from certain Muslim nations has been challenged:

1-its unethical because it  discriminates against innocent Muslims and presumes all Muslims should be treated as terrorist suspects;

2-the above generalization is discriminatory and violates the basic concept of innocent until proven guilty and the US Constitution as well as basic concepts of human rights and natural justice, legal arguments that will lead to the over-turning of the ban by the US Supreme Court;

3-the nations identified in the banning total all together the origins of 3 terrorists convicted in the US;

4-the majority of Muslim terrorists come from Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the UAE, but none of those countries are on the ban list;

5-the Muslim countries not on the ban list all have Trump businesses located on them;

6-it is more effective to increase screening on people matching profile suspect areas or ethnicities WITHOUT telling them and the world so they can now not be able to  fake their countries of origin and disguise their identities to get around the bans.

For me 6 is the greatest reason to criticize the policy. Its telecast to the very terrorists you want to screen how to get around the ban. This is why it is a basic precept in counter-intelligence never to state what measures you are actually taking. You don't want to tip the other side off. What's even more interesting is  Trump made a point all through the election to say the Obama regime were fools for telling the world the world how and when they would attack ISIL in Iraq giving ISIL the ability to prepare defensive measures. Well he sure as hell has now  done that with incoming terrorists. He's caused havoc at the borders as confused border guards now are so over-worked banning innocent Muslims that the true terrorist ones can use that havoc as a distraction to get in not to mention alter their id's to hide certain things courtesy of the US now telling them what things they should hide.

Its stupidity at its highest level of manifestation.

Counter-intelligence against terrorist movement requires you never ever under any circumstance state what your counter-terrorist measures are unless that broadcasting of your counter-measures is deliberate misinformation to keep people off the real purpose of what you are doing.

So are we to believe Trump is a brilliant genius using the whole banning of Muslims as a smokescreen to go after people from Tonga trying to get into the USA or he's a jack ass of most intense dimensions, who shoots off the hip based on negative stereotypes that scapegoat all Mexicans and Muslims as evil until Trump says otherwise.

Imagine waking up this morning with the name Muhammed Hernandez dual Mexican-Iraqi citizen. No trip to Miami for you.

On a sad note, there are thousands of Iraqis who served as translators for the US Armed Forces in Iraq. They are now stranded there and the promise made to them of US citizenship is now poof gone.

The question is this I now ask. Is Trump making the US safer or more prone to nut cases and terrorists reacting to his policies?

With due respect he's an ass. If he was serious about making borders safer he would implement measures using discretion and sensitivity so as not to trigger unintentionally extreme reaction by nut cases AND to avoid tipping off the very people he wants to better detect.

Trump fancies himself a big game hunter but can't understand why he can't find anything he hunts for. You can smell him and hear his farting noises miles before he is anywhere near whatever it is he thinks he's hunting.

Trust me his flatulence is chronic and I think Jesse Ventura was right he's going to get himself taken out of office by "natural causes".

Its only now a matter of time until Melania is asked to put a little drop in his nectar. He just doesn't get it.

If he's really interested in making the US safer he has to start with his own actions. He has to slow down, think through the implications and back-lash of what he is causing and ask, does his means justify his ends. He's ignored BOTH Republicans and Democrats trying to tell him to slow down. Now what? How do you deal with a stampeding wild bull?

I am not sure you can tranquilize Trump.

 

 

Edited January 30, 2017 by Rue

[bush_cheney2004]

15 minutes ago, Rue said:

Here's a summary of why Trump's arbitrary ban on Muslims from certain Muslim nations has been challenged:

 

 

Challenge all they want...U.S. federal law is on President Trump's side....as it was for President Obama and President Carter.

 

[kactus]

25 minutes ago, Rue said:

Here's a summary of why Trump's arbitrary ban on Muslims from certain Muslim nations has been challenged:

1-its unethical because it  discriminates against innocent Muslims and presumes all Muslims should be treated as terrorist suspects;

2-the above generalization is discriminatory and violates the basic concept of innocent until proven guilty and the US Constitution as well as basic concepts of human rights and natural justice, legal arguments that will lead to the over-turning of the ban by the US Supreme Court;

3-the nations identified in the banning total all together the origins of 3 terrorists convicted in the US;

4-the majority of Muslim terrorists come from Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the UAE, but none of those countries are on the ban list;

5-the Muslim countries not on the ban list all have Trump businesses located on them;

6-it is more effective to increase screening on people matching profile suspect areas or ethnicities WITHOUT telling them and the world so they can now not be able to  fake their countries of origin and disguise their identities to get around the bans.

For me 6 is the greatest reason to criticize the policy. Its telecast to the very terrorists you want to screen how to get around the ban. This is why it is a basic precept in counter-intelligence never to state what measures you are actually taking. You don't want to tip the other side off. What's even more interesting is  Trump made a point all through the election to say the Obama regime were fools for telling the world the world how and when they would attack ISIL in Iraq giving ISIL the ability to prepare defensive measures. Well he sure as hell has now  done that with incoming terrorists. He's caused havoc at the borders as confused border guards now are so over-worked banning innocent Muslims that the true terrorist ones can use that havoc as a distraction to get in not to mention alter their id's to hide certain things courtesy of the US now telling them what things they should hide.

Its stupidity at its highest level of manifestation.

Counter-intelligence against terrorist movement requires you never ever under any circumstance state what your counter-terrorist measures are unless that broadcasting of your counter-measures is deliberate misinformation to keep people off the real purpose of what you are doing.

So are we to believe Trump is a brilliant genius using the whole banning of Muslims as a smokescreen to go after people from Tonga trying to get into the USA or he's a jack ass of most intense dimensions, who shoots off the hip based on negative stereotypes that scapegoat all Mexicans and Muslims as evil until Trump says otherwise.

Imagine waking up this morning with the name Muhammed Hernandez dual Mexican-Iraqi citizen. No trip to Miami for you.

On a sad note, there are thousands of Iraqis who served as translators for the US Armed Forces in Iraq. They are now stranded there and the promise made to them of US citizenship is now poof gone.

The question is this I now ask. Is Trump making the US safer or more prone to nut cases and terrorists reacting to his policies?

With due respect he's an ass. If he was serious about making borders safer he would implement measures using discretion and sensitivity so as not to trigger unintentionally extreme reaction by nut cases AND to avoid tipping off the very people he wants to better detect.

Trump fancies himself a big game hunter but can't understand why he can't find anything he hunts for. You can smell him and hear his farting noises miles before he is anywhere near whatever it is he thinks he's hunting.

Trust me his flatulence is chronic and I think Jesse Ventura was right he's going to get himself taken out of office by "natural causes".

Its only now a matter of time until Melania is asked to put a little drop in his nectar. He just doesn't get it.

If he's really interested in making the US safer he has to start with his own actions. He has to slow down, think through the implications and back-lash of what he is causing and ask, does his means justify his ends. He's ignored BOTH Republicans and Democrats trying to tell him to slow down. Now what? How do you deal with a stampeding wild bull?

I am not sure you can tranquilize Trump.

 

 

Rue, there's no denying that we do have disagreements on 'certain topics'  but on this one you are bang on!

It shows your humility for human beings which is refreshing and taking an objective approach without bias...

As already stated Donald J. Trump supporters are making excuses for his #muslimban and claiming that Obama and Carter did the same thing, here is a good analysis explaining how different and unprecedented the #trump ban is. It's not about proving one side is wrong and the other is right. It's about understanding the real human effects this poorly thought out executive order has had! Bad, very bad leadership!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/no-barack-obama-jimmy-carter-9717520

[bush_cheney2004]

No worries....President Trump has U.S. Federal Law and the U.S. Constitution on his side, and his critics have  sympathy and "feelings" on their side.  

However, sympathy and "feelings" alone will not usually gain entry at an international border.

 

 

[Topaz]

Come people, NATO countries are at war with the ISIS-like people and its very hard at times to know who is ISIS-like in one's country, so how does the governments in N. America screen for these people if they seem ok,but have their own agenda, this is a tough problem and unfortunately the innocence  are affected., 

[kactus]

6 minutes ago, Topaz said:

Come people, NATO countries are at war with the ISIS-like people and its very hard at times to know who is ISIS-like in one's country, so how does the governments in N. America screen for these people if they seem ok,but have their own agenda, this is a tough problem and unfortunately the innocence  are affected., 

The very countries listed in the ban are fighting ISIS manufactured by guess who? Saudi Arabia! Common!

[kactus]

History won't just damn Trump over the #MuslimBan - it will damn those who lacked the courage to speak out about it. If history is a guide, this only the start of more systematic persecution. Trump will use any pretext he can to accelerate it. Like Jews in the 1930s, we all have to be prepared to stand by and defend Muslims in the West, or far worse is to come.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, kactus said:

History won't just damn Trump over the #MuslimBan - it will damn those who lacked the courage to speak out about it. If history is a guide, this only the start of more systematic persecution. Trump will use any pretext he can to accelerate it. Like Jews in the 1930s, we all have to be prepared to stand by and defend Muslims in the West, or far worse is to come.

 

Sure...go ahead and defend them....from other Muslims !   Where is the outrage for Muslims killing other Muslims ?

[kactus]

15 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Sure...go ahead and defend them....from other Muslims !   Where is the outrage for Muslims killing other Muslims ?

Drawing moral equivalency with some despotic regimes has always been a bad choice....especially when comparing the act of a supposedly responsible government (currently in white house) with those regimes....

If anything, Donald Trump's actions will only fuel groups like ISIS and consolidates their position....

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, kactus said:

Drawing moral equivalency with some despotic regimes has always been a bad choice....especially when comparing the act of a supposedly responsible government (currently in white house) with those regimes....

If anything, Donald Trump's actions will only fuel groups like ISIS and consolidates their position....

 

Wow....you mean ISIS might really get serious and start killing even more people than it already has ?   Better not make ISIS angrier, huh ?

President Trump will take actions to protect America first, not refugees that pose a security threat.  

[Hal 9000]

So, some people were detained at an airport.  I know it's an inconvenience, but we've seen inconveniences at airports for years now due to terrorism.  Where are the protests over things like this:

 

[Goddess]

4 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

So, some people were detained at an airport.  I know it's an inconvenience, but we've seen inconveniences at airports for years now due to terrorism.  Where are the protests over things like this:

 

That makes me sad for that little girl 

I travel a lot - internationally and domestically.  About a year ago, a female agent took me aside for a pat down (I don't know why, maybe random)  I had pat downs before, but nothing like that day.....she spent an exhorbitant amount of time feeling around and in between my breasts, even felt around my crotch area.  I was wearing leggings, not much to hide there.

I looked over as she was doing it to see a line up of men closely watching her.  I was mortified by how intimate the search was.

I swore the next time they wanted to pat me down, I was going to ask it to be done in a private room, as is my right.

I've requested that 2 times since.