Muslim antisemitism the cause of the Israeli conflict

[Argus]

8 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Yes, I know.  But lets face it, do you need a similar breakdown on the screening process?

The screening would be done of potential immigrants who are foreigners residing in their own country. What are they going to do, sue us in their own country's courts because they didn't like being rejected?

[Guest]

Just now, Argus said:

The screening would be done of potential immigrants who are foreigners residing in their own country. What are they going to do, sue us in their own country's courts because they didn't like being rejected?

No, but as has been said already by others, an industry will grow up around making sure everone knows exactly what to say.  It might even be counter productive, as then that industry exists for the truly dodgy, as well as only the marginally so.

[Rue]

On ‎2016‎-‎12‎-‎29 at 11:33 PM, herples said:

There is no sense in trying to go back further and further because all you will get is different eras and different problems. The entire history of the Ottoman empire doesn't explain the current conflict or the origins of it.

Its connected, its all connected. You can't possibily get it limiting your vision like that. Until you take the time to understand the archeology, the anthropology, the history, the religion from thousands of years ago, you won't get it.  In the Middle East you don't walk in the desert and understand its winds with limited perspective.

It makes no sense to you? How would you know? You've ruled it out before you've even attempted to sense it.

This is precisely the problem. There's just too many arm chair experts on the Middle East with narrow mind's, narrow limited versions, saying it makes no sense. It sure as hell does to some-conflict is a sand dune-it constantly changes in shape depending on the direction of the wind (thoughts).

.A Beduin can make sense of the wind far different than you. Why do you think that is? They know conflict comes and goes constantly like the sand dunes in shape.

You aint gonna stop the wind that causes the turmoil unless you do more than live in the present tene or limit yourself to looking back 5 steps..

I have been out in the Sinai with Beduins who sniff a sandstorm coming a day ahead and can smell water in the middle of nowhere. Why do you think that is?

Conflicts arise because we close our minds to the fact that every action is a past, present and future event  and the three are never detached. Everything has a cause and effect not just effect.

There are some amazing old souls, Jews,  Beduins, Druze, Bahaiis, Berbers, Kurds, Zoroastreans, Coptics, Muslims I met in the desert,

Your narrow view makes no sense in the desert. Its a wide open space. You have to be prepared to understand there is no past, present or future, just a constant movement of sand changing shape you can't stop.

Terrorists, extremists, they're just fools trying to build on sand.

To understand this conflict, you need to have a very wide vision of where the wind was, is and can be.

 

 [

Edited January 3, 2017 by Rue

[eyeball]

With any luck an asteroid will fall on the ME and put us all out of its godawful misery.

#channelingCharlieSheen....Please God, make the ME the next Chicxulub. 

[Hudson Jones]

On 12/30/2016 at 8:41 AM, Argus said:

There is no point in which Jews and Muslims have lived together except as conqueror and conquered. There is not now nor has there ever been a Muslim nation which treats other religious groups as equals within its borders. Jews, Christians and others who were permitted to reside in the lands of Dar al Islam were forced to pay special taxes and had all manner of prohibitions applied to their rights and conduct.

Today, just to name two Muslim countries, you have Iran and Turkey who have Jews and Christians living there. They have churches and synagogues. Iran's capital, Tehran, has over 30 synagogues. Both Jews and Christians are able to serve in politics and they do. They have the same rights as others in the country. It would help if you looked these things up, instead of sharing what you think it's like.

In the past, before the political rift between Iran and Israel, Iran was close friends with Israel despite Iran being majority Muslim. Iran and Israel had regular trade and travels. 

Before the mass Zionist migration from Europe into Palestine, Jews, Christians and Muslims lived together. Look it up. 

Quote

That makes no sense whatsoever. The various borders drawn in the region by western powers have been accepted other than this one, because the people within are Jews. Calling them colonizers is likewise silly since many have been there for literally eons. Nor was land taken away from anyone else at that time. Only when surrounding Muslims attacked Israel and lost (badly) did they lose territory.

When six countries decided to draw the borders and take land from one group of people in order to make room for a group of people coming mostly from Europe, what kind of a reaction are you expecting? Open arms?  They ended up penalizing the people in the region for what the Europeans did to the Jews. Majority of the Jews had no connection to the land. These were European Jews who have a closer connection to Turks and Anglo-Saxons than Semites. The Arab Muslims and Christians and the Jews who lived in Palestine got along well. They lived together. It was only after the mass Zionist immigration and the colonization of the land by foreigners that issues started. 

Quote

Quote

Any time you start moving foreigners onto a land and lock out the inhabitants from their own homes, then treat them like shit, it's only natural to create friction and a rebellion.

That didn't happen. And the Muslims who stayed within Israel have more human rights and more political representation than any Arab anywhere else in the region.

 

It did happen. Look up the Nakba and read about the 500+ villages that were burnt down and replaced by what is now Israel. Read about the hundreds of thousands of inhabitants that were driven out and now live in refugee camps.

You sure have a lot of opinion for someone who has very little knowledge of the topic you are discussing.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Hudson Jones

[DogOnPorch]

Both Persia and Turkey were invaded and conquered by Islamic armies. Neither were 'Muslim countries' before the invasions.

Christians and Jews...those survivors who didn't convert to Islam...lived as Dhimmis.

[Argus]

3 hours ago, Hudson Jones said:

Today, just to name two Muslim countries, you have Iran and Turkey who have Jews and Christians living there. They have churches and synagogues.

So what? That in no way counters ANYTHING I wrote.

3 hours ago, Hudson Jones said:

Both Jews and Christians are able to serve in politics and they do. They have the same rights as others in the country.

Don't be ridiculous. First off, neither is a democracy. Iran is an ISLAMIC state. Do you not comprehend what that means? How can you even pretend that they have equal rights when their behaviour is ruled by Islamic laws? In addition, even the most cursory examination of religious freedom in Iran shows vast discrimination against minorities. As for Turkey, it was a democratic secular state, but it is now transitioning into a non democratic Islamic state. There are almost no religious minorities there anyway.

3 hours ago, Hudson Jones said:

 Before the mass Zionist migration from Europe into Palestine, Jews, Christians and Muslims lived together. Look it up. 

As ruler and ruled.

 

[OftenWrong]

19 hours ago, eyeball said:

With any luck an asteroid will fall on the ME and put us all out of its godawful misery.

#channelingCharlieSheen....Please God, make the ME the next Chicxulub. 

That would make things so much simpler, as long as the asteroid does not damage the oil.

[marcus]

5 hours ago, Argus said:

So what? That in no way counters ANYTHING I wrote.

Don't be ridiculous. First off, neither is a democracy. Iran is an ISLAMIC state. Do you not comprehend what that means? How can you even pretend that they have equal rights when their behaviour is ruled by Islamic laws? In addition, even the most cursory examination of religious freedom in Iran shows vast discrimination against minorities. As for Turkey, it was a democratic secular state, but it is now transitioning into a non democratic Islamic state. There are almost no religious minorities there anyway.

As ruler and ruled.

 

Iran is not as free as Israel, of course. I don't think anyone disputes that. But that wasn't what you stated and that is not what you brought up in the post Hudson responded to. So try not to confuse yourself.

Iranian Jews and Christians are treated as equally as the Muslim Iranians, whereas in Israel, the Muslims are not treated as equally as the Jews. Just to give you a couple of examples: 1) A Palestinian citizen of Israel cannot marry someone from another country and bring them to Israel, where any Jew can move to Israel, 2) There are unequal land rules when it comes to what religion you follow in Israel. In Iran, there are no such discriminating rules when it comes to people who are Jewish or Christian.

Then of course, you have the Apartheid policies set by the Israeli government in the Occupied Territories (stolen land).

[Argus]

10 hours ago, marcus said:

Iran is not as free as Israel, of course. I don't think anyone disputes that. But that wasn't what you stated and that is not what you brought up in the post Hudson responded to. So try not to confuse yourself.

Iranian Jews and Christians are treated as equally as the Muslim Iranians,

Indeed! As he mentioned, they can apply to join the army or work for the government or run for office! Uhm, but they better have a strong familiarity with Islam, because all such applicants are tested on their knowledge of Islam and Islamic principles and laws. You know, the laws which rule them, whether they're Muslims or not?

I wonder what you'd have to say if we imposed a law that anyone wanting to join a public service, including police, or the military, must supply detailed responses on biblical law and the tenets of Christianity. Would you call that equality since the Christian candidates had to pass the same test?

10 hours ago, marcus said:

whereas in Israel, the Muslims are not treated as equally as the Jews.

Do they have to pass tests on Judaism before getting a job? I'm guessing not.

 

 

[GostHacked]

I am starting to think the OP or the title of this is incorrect. It may have been the start of Isreal's problems, but it is not the only issue that is causing Israel grief.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/pretend-two-state-solution-1.3919996

Quote

Yes, the Palestinians have chosen violence over negotiation in the past, but they are powerless, and they were crushed. Israel, on the other hand, is not only every bit as capable of deceit and double dealing. It has all the power. Any Palestinian state will exist only on Israel's terms, and anyone curious about Israel's terms should read the words of some of the most senior politicians and officials in Israel's ruling right-wing coalition: Naftali Bennett, leader of the Jewish Home party, Justice Minister Ayelet Shaked, Israeli Ambassador to the UN Danny Danon and, of course, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, all of whom have dismissed the idea of a Palestinian state.

I think Kerry (as much as I dislike him) has it right here with the line

Quote

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry touched on it when he said that if the status quo continues, Israel will be either Jewish or democratic, but not both.

 

[marcus]

On 1/4/2017 at 9:59 AM, Argus said:

Indeed! As he mentioned, they can apply to join the army or work for the government or run for office! Uhm, but they better have a strong familiarity with Islam, because all such applicants are tested on their knowledge of Islam and Islamic principles and laws. You know, the laws which rule them, whether they're Muslims or not?

I wonder what you'd have to say if we imposed a law that anyone wanting to join a public service, including police, or the military, must supply detailed responses on biblical law and the tenets of Christianity. Would you call that equality since the Christian candidates had to pass the same test?

Do they have to pass tests on Judaism before getting a job? I'm guessing not.

A Jewish and a Christian Iranian can marry a Jew or a Christian outside of Iran and then bring them into their country. A Jewish and a Christian Iranian can also buy land anywhere in Iran. 

This is not the case when you compare Arab Israelis with Jewish Israelis.

The bottom line is that Jews and Christians in Iran are treated more equally to Muslims in Iran when compared to the treatment between Arabs and Jews in Israel.

Edited January 6, 2017 by marcus

[marcus]

" It’s hard to admit that the Zionist ideology and its creation – Israel – have created a thieving, racist, arrogant monster that robs water and land and history, which has blood on its hands using the excuse of security"

This opinion piece in Haaretz nails it. It's an important read, written by an Israeli Jew.

Link

[dialamah]

4 hours ago, marcus said:

" It’s hard to admit that the Zionist ideology and its creation – Israel – have created a thieving, racist, arrogant monster that robs water and land and history, which has blood on its hands using the excuse of security"

This opinion piece in Haaretz nails it. It's an important read, written by an Israeli Jew.

Link

I wanted to but I had to subscribe.  Already subscribed to so many things!  

[marcus]

On 1/4/2017 at 4:58 PM, dialamah said:

I wanted to but I had to subscribe.  Already subscribed to so many things!  

Here is another place where you can see the article.

[Rue]

On ‎2017‎-‎01‎-‎03 at 8:56 PM, DogOnPorch said:

Both Persia and Turkey were invaded and conquered by Islamic armies. Neither were 'Muslim countries' before the invasions.

Christians and Jews...those survivors who didn't convert to Islam...lived as Dhimmis.

He also seems to have a problem knowing the difference between the Shah of Iran's and the subsequent one. Even more laughable Hyudson Jones tried to wax poetic how wonderful non Muslims like Jews and Christians have it in Iran in the past, was given a plethora of articles indicating in fact the dhimmitude and actual conditions they live in and of course he ignored those responses and presto back he is at it with the same old recycled crap about how good non Muslims have it in dhimmitude.

He can't even acknowledge the word dhimmitude. If he did he would have to admit its at the crux of what makes how Islam is applied through sharia law and not separating that law from the state which imposes it inherently and intrinsically not just anti semitic but anti anyone other than Muslim.

He has to ignore how sharia law is applied and its dhimmitude because if he acknowledged it then he would have to acknowledge why Jews and non Muslims fled Muslim countries not wanting to live in dhimmitude, i.e, as second class citizens.

He'd have to admit at the crux of his calling Zionism a cancer that must be destroyed is his belief that Jews can't ever have a nation because in so doing, they are no longer dhimmi which the Muslm dhimitude he advocates  can't abide by.

It busts his gut to see a Jew as an equal. The very thought of it. Imagine.

A Jew with a state just like Muslims.

There is of course another thing he omits. He can't admit that Muslims have every right in Israel a Jew does but in a Muslim state, Jews, Christians, Bahaiis, Zoroastreans, Druze, Assyrians, Berbers, Kurds, Yazidi, Buddhists, Hindus,  Ismaili Muslims Amidyyah Muslims are all objects to keep in segregation and treat as inferior and as has often been the case, slaughtered, jailed, tortured.

Its all part of the fiction and propaganda on this forum.

When you and Argus and a few others point out Sharia law now exercised in Islamic states is inherently bigoted and in fact is the very apartheid system the anti Israelis claim Israel has, they deflect.

The only slight difference you and I have is I believe  Muslims are also victimized by this sharia law implementation and that progressive Muslims are considered like Jews, Bahaiis, Zoroastreans with as much contempt and hate. There is no difference to fundamentalist Muslims a hatred of Amidyyah Muslims Coptics, Jews. Bahaiis, they hate us all and want us all wiped out. That's the cold reality.

I believe Muslims victimized by Sharia law like Amidyyah, Ismaili, Yazidi (not quite but related to) need our help and should bot be lumped into the same category as extremist fundamentalist Muslims.

There are progressive Muslims whose lives are in danger challenging extremist Islam and some have fled to Canada and we need to stand byt hem. I know some. They woulkd be killed if they returned to their homelands for calling for peace and recognition of Israel and for equal rights for women, gays, trade unionists, Bahaiis, etc.

Its the irony of ironies. The trendy leftists are in fact supporting these Nazi like, fascist fundamentalist Muslims in the name of being liberal because they are too god darned stupid to read their charters, read and listen to what these fundamentalists say in the media, etc.

Then we have "Hudson Jones" or "CanadianJim" or whatever name is suitable waxing poetic about bad bad Israel and how not a peep about extremist Islam from them. Not a peep. Right now Hudson Jones is back to his Iran is a model of democracy lip service. Its enough to make me puke. But hey its also enough to make me now show some more sites he will ignore on how Jews are treated in Iran and in the ME, you know the tolerant Muslim countries that just love their Jews.

 

 

 

 

[Rue]

On ‎2017‎-‎01‎-‎04 at 3:52 PM, marcus said:

A Jewish and a Christian Iranian can marry a Jew or a Christian outside of Iran and then bring them into their country. A Jewish and a Christian Iranian can also buy land anywhere in Iran. 

This is not the case when you compare Arab Israelis with Jewish Israelis.

The bottom line is that Jews and Christians in Iran are treated more equally to Muslims in Iran when compared to the treatment between Arabs and Jews in Israel.

I would report the above comment is completely and utterly false.

As of today a non Shiite Muslim Iranian can not bring in a wife or husband from outside Iran. Its absolute b.s. to say they can. Totally and utterly false. Non Muslims at this time can not get citizenship in Iran. Ask a non Muslim Iranian what happens if you are a non Muslim Iranian travelling to Iran for any period of time.

Hell even Iranian Muslims returning home ask them what happens.

Arab Israelis can marry other Arab Israelis. If an Arab Israeli wants to marry a Muslim from the West Bank or Gaza or for that matter from any Palestinian refugee camp in other Muslim countries there can be serious security screening issues preventing that. For that matter Israeli Jews can not marry outside  Israel Jews, Marcus skipped that.

The bottom line is he deliberately misrepresented the laws.

In fact an Arab Israeli, i.e., a Muslim in Israel who was born in Israel has all the rights of a Jew born in Israel but a Jew or non Muslim born in Iran does NOT have the same rights as a Muslim in Iran that is a complete fabrication.

Israeli immigration laws fast track Jews to citizenship in Israel. There are over 140 countries that fast track identified groups for citizenship no different including Jordan, Iran and every single country in the Arab League of nations. In the case of Iran, if you are a Shiite Muslim and follow a particular fundamentalist type of Shiite Muslim they fast rack you.

In fact in Israel if a Jewish Israeli wanted to marry me and bring me to Israel I would not be recognized as a Jew unless I first agreed to a ceremony by an orthodox Jewish Rabbia.

Israel does not recognize me as a Jew necessarily because I am a Reform Jew. Its a very complex matter which Marcus has misrepresented.

As well Marcus mixes different factors. Many people are screened from Israeli citizenship even when Jewish. Just being a Jew doe snot fast track you. If you have a criminal record, or have certain political or religious beliefs, you may not qualify to be fast tracked. The reason Palestinian women marrying Arab Israeli men have a prohibition at this time is the same reason Canada has a law prohibiting people using marriages of convenience to get around immigration laws and get in faster.

Millions of Palestinians would love to come to Israel as citizens because the standard of living is much higher.

Ask yourself if Israel is so bad, if its as horrid as Marcus claims it is to Palestinians, why would they want to live there? Why wouldn't they say to their prospective husbands or wives in Israel, leave that horrible anti Muslim place and come live with me in the Muslim world. Hmm?

Oh let's see. Why would any Palestinian be so eager to become Israeli? Um uh um uh.

Marriages of convenience to get around immigration laws are a fact in all countries not just Israel.

More to the point it is absolutely false for Marcus to suggest an Iranian Jew could marry an Israeli Jew and have them come live in Iran. False. Blatantly and utterly false.

The above allegation was a deflection  to avoid acknowledging or discussing anti Semitism in the Muslim world and how it impacts on peace between Israel and the Arab world.

Anti-Semitism, the belief that Jews are inferior to Muslims and can not own land or have a state like Muslims do, is at the pith and substance of dispute. When Iran spews hatred about Jews it doesn't differentiate Israel and non Israeli Jews. Its venom attacks and ridicules all Jews and it expects its Jewish citizens to engage in openly anti Israeli displays, engage in pro Iran government propaganda and say nothing about the holocaust mockeries carried out across the land.

 

Edited January 8, 2017 by Rue

[Rue]

Now back to the actual thread which is anti Semitism.

Let's talk what actually is Iran and its anti-Semitism:

http://drrichswier.com/2016/03/04/blatant-anti-semitism-new-wave-of-anti-jewish-hatred-by-iranian-regime/

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/10/anti-semitisms-resurgence-in-iran/381110/

http://www.jewishjournal.com/iranianamericanjews/item/transformation_of_anti-semitism_in_iran_beyond_todays_headlines/

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8046/iran-antisemitism

https://www.scribd.com/document/141392801/JASPAL-Antisemitism-and-Antizionism-in-Iran

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/290921824_Antisemitism%27s_permutations_in_the_Islamic_Republic_of_Iran

https://www.algemeiner.com/2015/08/11/worldwide-anti-semitism-gets-a-boost-from-the-iran-deal/

http://www.timesofisrael.com/jewish-woman-brutally-murdered-in-iran-over-property-dispute/

 

The above sites are but  a few evidencing Iran for what it is a hateful anti semitic sate.

When I read scripts from “Hudson Jones” about how wonderful it is to be a Jew in Iran or read some of the crap Iran spews out about Jews in Iran I say this: speak to an Iranian who got out of Iran and ask them why they did. Go speak with an Iranian Jew who got out.

Have Hudson Jones tell you what happens to a Jew that openly speaks up in favour of Israel or against any Iranian policy.

Go on ask him since he is an authority on the Jews of Iran. Better still ask him what its like to be a Jew in a country that each year has a holocaust cartoon contest to ridicule the holocaust and entertain speakers who deny it happened. Interestingly there is actually an Iranian Muslim who helped holocaust survivors. See if Hudson Jones knows his name and what would happen if one spoke about him in public in Iran and what he did.

Better still ask Hudson Jones how easy it is to sell a home and leave Iram. Ask him whether a Jew is even allowed to sell their property let alone get a passport.

Iran is a vile, hateful fascist country. Instead of Nazism, its state is controlled by a violent form of Shiite fundamentalist, Instead of SS and SA Stormtroopers it has religious police that keep a continuous eye on the people and if you say anything against the government, if you say anything even remotely critical of the government, if you are a Jew, Christian, Zoroastrean, Bahaii, you don’t dare show your religion in public let alone say anything when the government enters your house of worship or charges all kinds of charges or places agents in your congregation to watch and listen.

Let Hudson Jones wax poetic on Iran. “He” is in good company. Justin Trudeau’s brother Sasha, the one they keep secret, produced a propaganda movie for Iran extolling its virtues.

Right. It’s a utopia.

The cold hard fact is it is the no.1 financier of Muslim and other terrorists killing Jews worldwidein the name o f ridding the word of Israel.

Not long ago in terms of history people used to show propaganda films from Nazi Germany about how good Jews had it.

Then we had movie reals coming out of Theriesenshtadt Concentration Camp picturing Jews in ideal situations enjoying themselves.

History never changes. Iran today does what Nazi Germany once did. It uses its captive Jews as props to try fake a tolerant society.

I am here to say unequivocally, Iran today is no different than Nazi Germany except one thing, it does not systemically kill its Jews, it keeps them captive as props as it does Bahaiis, Zoroastreans and Christians and all these captives are less than o.3% of its population. Some do not dare leave. They have been told if they do it will result on other Jews in Iran being killed. That’s the real world-the one of a nation that finances an on-going war to destroy Israel and in the last year has claimed the Saudi Arabian head is a Jew, Saudi Arabians are Jews and that the ME needs to rid itself of all Jews and when it says rid itself, go find out for yourself what it means by rid itself of Jews. It doesn’t mean the usual lip service of shipping them “back” to New York because they never came from New York. It means engaging in terrorism and a war of genocide as part of a world war to ride the planet of Jews as part of a cleansing of the earth.

That’s what the fearless leader says in his speeches and his Mullahs and Immams spew in their Mosques.

Yah right, It loves its Jews.

[Rue]

Now let's address the anti Semitism equally as vile and odious in Turkey:

Now let’s talk Turkey. Let’s again make this crystal clear. Erdogan is an anti-semite and he despises Jews.

He along with Morsi in Egypt and Obama in the US were Muslim Brotherhood supporters. Obama’s half brother was the man in charge of financing Sudan’s government another Muslim Brotherhood country.

When Sudan engaged in genocide of its black Christians did you hear a peep from Erdogan or Obama or Morsi?

When Morsi called on Egyptians to attack and kill Coptic Christians, where was Obama? Where was Erdogan? When Erdogan and the leaders of Iraq and Iran engaged in genocide of Kurds where was Obama and Morsi?

I tell you where Israel was. Israel was sending help to the Kurds and Coptics. Israel tried to take in some Sudanese Christians then was so flooded had to stop.

When Yugoslavia imploded in civil war, Israel took in 10,000 Muslim refugees. Turkey? Saudi Arabia, Iran? Not one. Not one.

To be fair today, Turkey and Jordan because of their proximity to Syria have  the vast majority of Syrian refugees.

However Erdogan continues his war against the Kurds as does Iran.

As for Erdogan’s approach to Jews in Turkey, this is a man who financed, fed and housed thousands of Al Queda, Isis, Hezbollah and Hamas terrorists and other terrorists over the years engaged in war against Israel.

Erdogan finances an attempt to run the blockade around Gaza on behalf of Hamas.

He threatened to invade Israel and bomb it during the war between Iraeel and Hamas.

He supported Hezbollah against Israel until Hezbollah turned on Erdogan for trying to fight against Hezbollah’s ally Assad in Syria

Erdogan is a fascist. Today in Turkey if you say anything critical of his policies, you are jailed.

http://jcpa.org/article/present-day-anti-semitism-in-turkey/

http://www.dw.com/en/jews-threatened-by-anti-semitism-in-turkey/a-18212147

http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Study-anti-Semitism-most-common-prejudice-in-Turkish-media-386882

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/06/exclusive-turkish-leader-doubles-down-on-blaming-jews-worldwide-for-gaza-war.html

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7564/turkey-anti-semitism

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4445055,00.html

 

[marcus]

21 hours ago, Rue said:

Muslims have every right in Israel a Jew does but in a Muslim state

You continue to repeat the above misinformation. You are frequently corrected, but you keep coming back with it. I am beginning to think that you are not interested in being honest.

Land laws + Citizenship + immigration laws are examples of how Muslims in Israel do not have every right in Israel a Jew does.

Then there are systematic discrimination when it comes to how funds are dispersed in Israel when it comes to infrastructure and education. If you're in a Muslim majority neighbourhood in Israel, as compared to a Jewish majority neighbourhood, you will not be treated the same when it comes to fund disbursement. 

Beyond Jewish vs Muslim discrimination, there is also discrimination against black Jews. 

Zionism and its ideology, where supremacy is practiced and encouraged is the root problem of all of this. Zionism is racism.

[Rue]

On ‎2017‎-‎01‎-‎08 at 3:36 PM, marcus said:

Land laws + Citizenship + immigration laws are examples of how Muslims in Israel do not have every right in Israel a Jew does.

Then there are systematic discrimination when it comes to how funds are dispersed in Israel when it comes to infrastructure and education. If you're in a Muslim majority neighbourhood in Israel, as compared to a Jewish majority neighbourhood, you will not be treated the same when it comes to fund disbursement. 

Beyond Jewish vs Muslim discrimination, there is also discrimination against black Jews. 

Zionism and its ideology, where supremacy is practiced and encouraged is the root problem of all of this. Zionism is racism.

Its time when you make your statements you back them up.

1. Which land laws, citizenship laws and immigration laws are you referring to. State them and explain how they discriminate.

2. You claim systemic discrimination as to fund allocation. Where and by who.

3. You make a sweeping statement that there is discrimination against black Jews. Show the laws of Israel that discriminate against people's skin colour, name them.

4. Delineate, show the Zionist ideology in writing that says Jews are supreme and defined as a race.

In regards to one, you have made this claim many times and never provide a law or regulation.

In regards to two, you again throw out accusations with no examples.

In regards to 3 you make no differentiation between the Israel government and its laws and regulations and cultural conflict that arises internally between different Jewish peoples.

In regards to 4, you have repeatedly accused Zionist ideology of being racist and supremacist but when asked for proof never give any.

So might I suggest you apply the following words you told me to yourself:

"You continue to repeat the above misinformation. You are frequently corrected, but you keep coming back with it. I am beginning to think that you are not interested in being honest."

Until you cite an example of what you allege and proof how it discriminates you engage in the very thing you accuse me of.

Next don't tell me you are "beginning to think" I am not interested in being honest. There's no beginning and ironically the fact you sugest you were "beginning" to think shows you are in fact dishonest. You have from the get go in each and every post called me dishonest. You haven't begun, you merely repeat with the name calling.

As for honesty, when I cite laws, regulations and sources, you have said you won't read them because they are too long, written by Zionists or liars. You can't have it both ways.

The big difference between us is when I make an allegation I back it up, you don't.

You spout accusations with zero proof.

Until you back up your accusations with cited laws and examples of how those laws discriminate you have zero credibility.

Next in past posts I have discussed tensions between different Jewish ethnic groups. I have never denied that. I have openly discussed for example that Mitzrahi-Tsfardic-Arab Jews and European-Ashkenzai Jews, have major differences. Russian Askkenazi Jews can most certainly be discriminatory against Felashie and Tsfardic Jews.

Its a fact. Its not however something the government implements in its laws. Its no different then how Musloims are racist sob's and say Saudi Arabia and Oman and Iran and the UAE hire black Muslims from Africa, or Bangladeshis, Pakistanis, Sri Lankan Muslims, Fillippin, Malaysian and Indonesian Muslims and discriminate against them/

The difference though is this. In Israel employment laws prevent the very labour practices that go on in Sharia law nations.

The very racism you accuse Israel of exists on a personal level but not systemic level. There are as many non Ahkenazi Jews elected to the Knesset as Ashkenzai Jews.

They all go to the same hospitals and serve in the military the exact same way. So you deliberately mislead. If a Russian Jew has a cultural disdain for a Felashie Jew that is a cultural germ they bring from Russia. Its not intrinsic top Judaism and its not implemented by the government as you are well aware.

You are attempting to deflect away from the fact that Islam through Sharia law in fact is anti semitic and anti Christian and anti non Muslim.

You try deflect by suggesting Israel is. Israel has many issues and conflicts between Jews no different than Muslims hate each other but to say its part of Zionism is abso;lutely and utterly false and its why you can not cite a law or for that matter writing from a Zionist that refers to Jews as a race let alone a superior one. That is an absolute and utter falsehood you repeat and can't prove.

Finally I have discussed in past posts that in Arab Israeli towns the Arab Israelis won't pay municipal taxes. As a result because taxes are not collected, there is no money for certain services. That is a cultural phenomena. Arab Israelis have never paid taxes. They are against paying any taxes municipal, federal, etc. Its a cultural habit that dates back to when the Ottoman Empire unfairly taxed Arabs. In towns where Arabs pay taxes the infrastructure is better kept up. So again its a lie to say its done by the government deliberately.

Now is there discrimination municipally at the municipal level? There can be a huge difference between roads and water pipes and electricity in Arab and Jewish towns depending on who is in charge of such municipal expenses. In Arab towns with Arab Israeli Mayors who don't collect taxes they have no money to spend on such things.

That is something Israeli Arabs have caused to themselves and in Israel they openly admit this. Its not a secret. Its a cultural tradition. They prefer to have crap roads then pay taxes for them.

Now that is far different then on the West Bank.

On the West Bank Israel does not control PA controlled areas. It has no say on how they handle their money on infrastructure.

What the PA and Hamas have done is take foreign aid money and taxes they collect and rather than build roads, hospitals. homes, schools electric grids, water systems, have wasted the money either on building tunnels and buying weapons in the case of Hamas or in the case of PA stealing the money by the PA assembly members who put it in Swiss Bank accounts.

The PA is the  most corrupt political group in the world. That is saying a lot. Israel has had its share of corupt politicians including the former Prime Minister but nothing even close to what Palestinians have had to suffer from. Arafat was a corrupt pig who bloated himself at the expense of his people and the corrupt Abbas is no different

You want to deflect from Muslim bigotry against its own people and Jews and try change the subject start another thread and for once back up your accusations.

Stop trying to change the topic on this thread.

[marcus]

5 hours ago, Rue said:

Its time when you make your statements you back them up

This have been backed up a number of times. You just refuse to acknowledge it.

Here is one place you can start with to understand the discriminatory laws in Israel which clearly shows how Zionism is a racist ideology:

In 2012, Adalah, the legal center for Arab minority rights in Israel, published a report, The Discriminatory Laws Database, which collected and analyzed more than 50 laws “enacted since 1948 that directly or indirectly discriminate against Palestinian citizens of Israel in all areas of life.”

Here is a review of some of the patently discriminatory laws that are identified in the Adalah Database

The most serious discriminations were established early and relate to land control and citizenship. First, the state took over and controlled approximately 93 percent of all lands within the 1949 cease fire lines, and the state has subsequently used this land preferentially for its Jewish majority by making land available to Jews for development, and denying building permits and the ability to develop land to Palestinians. Second, the state established discriminatory preferences about who could immigrate, return to, or stay—in short belong—in the land as a citizen.

1950 law about confiscation of Absentee Landlord Property. This law defines persons who were expelled, fled, or who left the country after November 29, 1947 as “absentee.” Property belonging to “absentees” was placed under the control of the State of Israel with the Custodian for Absentees’ Property. The Absentee Property Law was the main legal instrument used by Israel to take possession of the land belonging to the internal and external Palestinian refugees, and Muslim Waqf properties across the state. This law continues to be used to this day by quasi-governmental agencies in Israel to take over Palestinian properties in East Jerusalem, for example.

1950 Law of Return. This allows every Jewish person to immigrate to Israel and this extends to the children and grandchildren of Jews, as well as their spouses, and the spouses of their children and grandchildren. The flip side of this is that the rights of Palestinians and others to enter the state and become citizens, even if they were born in the area that is now the State of Israel, are extremely restrictive. This discrimination against the non-Jewish minority has been periodically reinforced. For example, the ban on family unification law of 2003 prohibits citizens of Israel from reuniting with Palestinian spouses living in the West Bank or Gaza.

In 1952 the state authorized the World Zionist Organization, the Jewish Agency, and other Zionist bodies founded at the turn of the 20th century to function in Israel as quasi-governmental entities in order to further advance the goals of the Zionist movement, to the detriment of minorities.

The Land Acquisition Law of 1953 transferred the land of 349 Arab towns and villages—approximately 1.2 million dunams in all (~468 square miles)—to the state to be used preferentially for the Jewish majority.

In 1953, the Knesset bestowed governmental authorities on the Jewish National Fund (JNF or Keren Kayemeth LeIsrael) to purchase land for exclusively Jewish use. The state granted financial advantages, including tax relief to facilitate such purchases.

In 1960, the state passed a law which stipulates that the ownership of “Israel lands”—namely the 93% of land under the control of the state, the Jewish National Fund, and the Development Authority—cannot be transferred in any manner.

Although most Palestinians that remained in 1949 were granted Israeli citizenship, they were subject to martial law until 1966. Travel permits, curfews, administrative detentions, and expulsions were part of life until 1966. Once Palestinians were relieved from martial law, laws were passed to clearly define the primacy of ethnically Jewish Israelis.

In 1969, the state passed a law that gave statutory recognition to cultural and educational institutions, and defined their aims, inter alia, as developing and fulfilling Zionist goals to promote Jewish culture and education at the expense of minority goals.

There is a law mandating that Knesset session must be opened with a reading of portions of Israel’s declaration of independence that emphasizes the exclusive connection of the state of Israel to the Jewish people.

There is a law that bans any political party that denies the existence of Israel as a “Jewish” state. In other words, a party that would advocate equal rights for all citizens of Israel irrespective of ethnicity would not be allowed to enter the Knesset.

There are laws that establish separate educational systems which are then unequally administered.

More recently, the Knesset has passed laws to defend against efforts to bring the Palestinian minority onto a more equal footing.

In 2011 the Knesset passed a law that empowers hundreds of local Jewish communities to exclude applicants based on ethnicity or religion. The Supreme Court upheld this law in September 2014.

In 2011 the Knesset passed a law prohibiting anyone from calling for a boycott of Israel, its institutions, or any person because of their affiliation with Israel, including the settlements in the occupied territories. The law creates a private right of action for persons targeted by a boycott to sue for damages. As Noam Sheizaf puts it: “You can boycott anything in Israel except the occupation.” This vague law is blatantly aimed at Palestinians who are supportive of the BDS movement—while it allows people like Avigdor Lieberman to call for boycott of Arab owned businesses with impunity. The law was upheld by Israel’s Supreme Court on April 15, 2015.

 

[DogOnPorch]

The Arabs started a war and lost.

[Rue]

20 hours ago, marcus said:

This have been backed up a number of times. You just refuse to acknowledge it.

Here is one place you can start with to understand the discriminatory laws in Israel which clearly shows how Zionism is a racist ideology:

In 2012, Adalah, the legal center for Arab minority rights in Israel, published a report, The Discriminatory Laws Database, which collected and analyzed more than 50 laws “enacted since 1948 that directly or indirectly discriminate against Palestinian citizens of Israel in all areas of life.”

Here is a review of some of the patently discriminatory laws that are identified in the Adalah Database

The most serious discriminations were established early and relate to land control and citizenship. First, the state took over and controlled approximately 93 percent of all lands within the 1949 cease fire lines, and the state has subsequently used this land preferentially for its Jewish majority by making land available to Jews for development, and denying building permits and the ability to develop land to Palestinians. Second, the state established discriminatory preferences about who could immigrate, return to, or stay—in short belong—in the land as a citizen.

1950 law about confiscation of Absentee Landlord Property. This law defines persons who were expelled, fled, or who left the country after November 29, 1947 as “absentee.” Property belonging to “absentees” was placed under the control of the State of Israel with the Custodian for Absentees’ Property. The Absentee Property Law was the main legal instrument used by Israel to take possession of the land belonging to the internal and external Palestinian refugees, and Muslim Waqf properties across the state. This law continues to be used to this day by quasi-governmental agencies in Israel to take over Palestinian properties in East Jerusalem, for example.

1950 Law of Return. This allows every Jewish person to immigrate to Israel and this extends to the children and grandchildren of Jews, as well as their spouses, and the spouses of their children and grandchildren. The flip side of this is that the rights of Palestinians and others to enter the state and become citizens, even if they were born in the area that is now the State of Israel, are extremely restrictive. This discrimination against the non-Jewish minority has been periodically reinforced. For example, the ban on family unification law of 2003 prohibits citizens of Israel from reuniting with Palestinian spouses living in the West Bank or Gaza.

In 1952 the state authorized the World Zionist Organization, the Jewish Agency, and other Zionist bodies founded at the turn of the 20th century to function in Israel as quasi-governmental entities in order to further advance the goals of the Zionist movement, to the detriment of minorities.

The Land Acquisition Law of 1953 transferred the land of 349 Arab towns and villages—approximately 1.2 million dunams in all (~468 square miles)—to the state to be used preferentially for the Jewish majority.

In 1953, the Knesset bestowed governmental authorities on the Jewish National Fund (JNF or Keren Kayemeth LeIsrael) to purchase land for exclusively Jewish use. The state granted financial advantages, including tax relief to facilitate such purchases.

In 1960, the state passed a law which stipulates that the ownership of “Israel lands”—namely the 93% of land under the control of the state, the Jewish National Fund, and the Development Authority—cannot be transferred in any manner.

Although most Palestinians that remained in 1949 were granted Israeli citizenship, they were subject to martial law until 1966. Travel permits, curfews, administrative detentions, and expulsions were part of life until 1966. Once Palestinians were relieved from martial law, laws were passed to clearly define the primacy of ethnically Jewish Israelis.

In 1969, the state passed a law that gave statutory recognition to cultural and educational institutions, and defined their aims, inter alia, as developing and fulfilling Zionist goals to promote Jewish culture and education at the expense of minority goals.

There is a law mandating that Knesset session must be opened with a reading of portions of Israel’s declaration of independence that emphasizes the exclusive connection of the state of Israel to the Jewish people.

There is a law that bans any political party that denies the existence of Israel as a “Jewish” state. In other words, a party that would advocate equal rights for all citizens of Israel irrespective of ethnicity would not be allowed to enter the Knesset.

There are laws that establish separate educational systems which are then unequally administered.

More recently, the Knesset has passed laws to defend against efforts to bring the Palestinian minority onto a more equal footing.

In 2011 the Knesset passed a law that empowers hundreds of local Jewish communities to exclude applicants based on ethnicity or religion. The Supreme Court upheld this law in September 2014.

In 2011 the Knesset passed a law prohibiting anyone from calling for a boycott of Israel, its institutions, or any person because of their affiliation with Israel, including the settlements in the occupied territories. The law creates a private right of action for persons targeted by a boycott to sue for damages. As Noam Sheizaf puts it: “You can boycott anything in Israel except the occupation.” This vague law is blatantly aimed at Palestinians who are supportive of the BDS movement—while it allows people like Avigdor Lieberman to call for boycott of Arab owned businesses with impunity. The law was upheld by Israel’s Supreme Court on April 15, 2015.

 

Lol what a pathetic way to deflect from this thread and change the topic.

1-start a thread on the topic and stop trying to deflect from this one;

2-for once in your life quote an actual law, reproduce it-what a joke you quote an editorial opinion piece that does not provide the law nor its contents nor explain why it discriminates-go find the law, cite it, and show how it discriminates in your thread-otherwise you are just once again making unsubstantiated allegations. you can't prove and you do so deliberately to avoid having to acknowledge Islam is anti semitic, discriminatory and has always been. 

[Rue]

The topic is Muslim anti-semitism and how it causes conflicts with Israel. Marcus has tried now three times to derail the thread and change the topic to avoid dealing with the issue.

Let's go back to the issue Marcus tries to deflect from in what I might say is a clumsy attempt at deflection:

http://www.meforum.org/396/muslim-anti-semitism

The above article states:

" III. ISLAMIC

The strongest, most principled, and most sustained opposition to the peace process is offered in the name of Islam, especially by the government of Iran and its agencies, and by other Islamic parties and organizations. Islamic opposition has the considerable advantage of being ideologically formulated and logically consistent and of using familiar language to appeal to deep-rooted sentiments. This gives to arguments based on Islam far greater cogency and power than those based on nationality and race. Nevertheless, spokesmen for Islamic movements do not disdain to use racist arguments, and specifically, to draw on the rich resources of hatred provided by European anti-Semitism. Standard anti-Semitic themes have become commonplace in the propaganda of Arab Islamic movements like Hizbullah and Hamas, in the pronouncements of various agencies of the Islamic Republic of Iran, and even in the newspapers and other publications of Refah, the Turkish Islamic party whose head served as prime minister in 1996-97. Most of these accusations are familiar and can be traced to their European sources. Others arise from local circumstances. Thus, for Turkish anti-Semites, the misdeeds of the Jews include the downfall of the Ottoman Empire and the recent troubles in Bosnia. In Iran, American sanctions and the resulting economic hardships are ascribed to sinister Jewish influences in Washington. Other accusations are clearly transference or projection; for example, Israelis are allegedly told by rabbis that if they die while killing Palestinians they will go straight to paradise. Some are traditional Islamic accusations against the Jews, based on well-known passages in the Qur'an and hadith (sayings and actions attributed to the Prophet Muhammad). Some are borrowed or adapted from the standard armory of European anti-Semitism. Increasingly, the second and third motifs are combined." The above is the point the thread advanced and Marcus refuses to discuss.