Russians accused of interfering in election to get Trump elected

[Derek 2.0]

1 minute ago, dialamah said:

Nope, I think Trump said nice things about Putin to soften up the Americans for their future relationship.   

My personal opinion is that it hardly matters who America allies itself with; I just think it's hilarious that people think there isn't any ...  errr ... collaboration going on.  

 

And what's wrong with that? The Americans and Russians worked together to defeat the Nazis........would it be so bad if they collaborated to defeat radical Islam? Is the World better off with the Americans and Russians friends or foes?

[OftenWrong]

Just now, dialamah said:

My personal opinion is that it hardly matters who America allies itself with; I just think it's hilarious that people think there isn't any ...  errr ... collaboration going on.  

It's in the interest of the west to bring Russia back into the fold. The Obama administration made a huge error in its priorities. It went on the side of the terrorists. Putin is a white man, for god's sake.

[ReeferMadness]

6 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

ISIS is killing way more. And if not stopped, they will spread further and kill even more. Then the whole ME will come under Wahhabism. You fear a dark world? That would be it.

This wouldn't be half the problem that it is now if Clinton and Obama "had a pair" and did something useful at the time. But they were frantically looking for a way to "reach out" to the terrorists, so as not to offend their friends the Saudis, who are probably behind this all the way.

Obama reached out through his television, and drew back a stump. They hacked it off. It's too late for some.

Patent nonsense.  All of it. 

Military action by foreign powers in poor countries almost always makes things worse. 

Did you forget how ISIS came into being?  The USSR and the US combined to make a f*cking mess in Afghanistan.  Out of that came the Mujihideen, which spawned al Qaeda, which spawned ISIS.  The more civilians that are killed, the more kids orphaned, the more infrastructure destroyed, the easier it is to recruit people into extremist organizations.  It's really not that hard to understand.

 

[bush_cheney2004]

Harper/Trudeau wanted Obama/Trump to approve the KXL pipeline for Canadian business/economic interests, but Putin is the bad guy ?

 

[ReeferMadness]

Just now, OftenWrong said:

It's in the interest of the west to bring Russia back into the fold. The Obama administration made a huge error in its priorities. It went on the side of the terrorists.

Really?  It looks to me Russia is bringing the US into its fold.

Quote

Putin is a white man, for god's sake.

Wow.  Really?  Are you really not aware of what a blatantly racist statement that is? 

I guess that's why you're such a big Trump supporter.

[Derek 2.0]

8 minutes ago, ReeferMadness said:

No points for guessing who that leader was or how things turned out.

 

 

Franco?

 

9 minutes ago, ReeferMadness said:

Seriously.  Americans need to give their heads a shake.

 

Or, get aboard the Trump train........

[ReeferMadness]

5 minutes ago, Derek 2.0 said:

 

And what's wrong with that? The Americans and Russians worked together to defeat the Nazis........would it be so bad if they collaborated to defeat radical Islam? Is the World better off with the Americans and Russians friends or foes?

Wow, you have problems wrapping your head around analogies, don't you.

[bush_cheney2004]

Americans will decide U.S. foreign policy with Russia, not Canadians who fear Putin.

Trump found a winning issue by questioning the very failed Obama administration's policies for Putin/Russia.  

[Derek 2.0]

1 minute ago, ReeferMadness said:

Wow, you have problems wrapping your head around analogies, don't you.

 

No, not at all........The Americans and Russians were both instrumental in defeating Hitler....if they can find common ground over Islamic terrorism, why not work together? Would you prefer them to continue along the path of another Cold War over Eastern Europe?

[ReeferMadness]

I shake my head at the comments made about "radical Islam", as if it is any comparison to the Nazis.  Meanwhile, real Nazis are having a resurgence and nobody seems to notice.  It's a pity George Orwell weren't still around - perhaps he could explain it so that you'd get it.

As a threat to the world, "radical Islam" is laughable.  It exists mostly in poor countries and has no base of operations (unless you count Saudi Arabia and Pakistan).  Even if you count them, it is no threat to the larger world.  So, why  does so much attention get paid to it?  And why do the responses consist mainly of bombing, although it can readily be seen that this mostly makes the problem worse?

Partly, it's because people are naturally xenophobic and suspicious of others who are different.  And partly it's because bigoted, authoritarian, nationalist leaders find it so easy to exploit the xenophobia.

"Extreme Islam" is a right wing authoritarian's wet dream.  It isn't a threat in any serious way but it's just enough of a problem that you can whip up fear in the population and use it to control them.  And, to some degree, you can whip it up by just bombing more.

As Gwynne Dyer said, the Muslim extremists and right wing authoritarians need each other.  Muslim extremists need the authoritarians to keep bombing so that they can keep recruiting.  And the right wing authoritarians need the extremists to justify repressive legislation, huge military budgets and domestic surveillance.

But hey, as long as you get your tax breaks, right?

 

 

[ReeferMadness]

11 minutes ago, Derek 2.0 said:

 

No, not at all........The Americans and Russians were both instrumental in defeating Hitler....if they can find common ground over Islamic terrorism, why not work together? Would you prefer them to continue along the path of another Cold War over Eastern Europe?

<palm hits forehead>

The Islamic terrorists are a ragtag bunch of nobodies who mostly kill other Muslims.  They were created by the US and USSR and when the US and Russia intervene, they are mostly making the problem worse.  Leave the countries to sort out their own problems and support the leaders who support democracy and peace.

Putin, on the other hand, is a dictator who has suppressed his own citizens and has dreams of reviving the USSR and has already shown he's willing to use his military to do it.  But hey, he's white and Christian, so I guess he's OK in your books.

 

[OftenWrong]

Just now, ReeferMadness said:

<palm hits forehead>

The Islamic terrorists are a ragtag bunch of nobodies who mostly kill other Muslims.  They were created by the US and USSR and when the US and Russia intervene, they are mostly making the problem worse.  Leave the countries to sort out their own problems and support the leaders who support democracy and peace.

Putin, on the other hand, is a dictator who has suppressed his own citizens and has dreams of reviving the USSR and has already shown he's willing to use his military to do it.  But hey, he's white and Christian, so I guess he's OK in your books.

 

They were created by Sadr Qutb and Ayman Al Zawahiri.

[OftenWrong]

Qutbism (1960)

[cybercoma]

57 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Putin is a helluva lot more important than playing nice with lightweight Justin Trudeau.

You go ahead and keep telling yourself that. Your president, on the other hand, knows of the "extraordinary alliance and deep friendship" between our nations. Maybe you're just unaware of your country's foreign affairs. I wouldn't blame you though. You have one of the worst education systems in the OECD.

[Smallc]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

I didn't vote for Trump for fiscal reasons, not foreign policy.   Putin is a helluva lot more important than playing nice with lightweight Justin Trudeau.

Not no Time or Vogue though - Putin has nothing on Trudeau.

[Smallc]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Putin matters....Trudeau doesn't.

Trump matters too - to Putin.

[Derek 2.0]

18 minutes ago, ReeferMadness said:

Leave the countries to sort out their own problems and support the leaders who support democracy and peace.

 

 

I largely agree, the first step in doing that will be North American energy independence.........leave the Arab oil, and the entailing messes, to the Europeans and Chinese...

 

Energy Independence of course is but one of Trump's goals....

 

21 minutes ago, ReeferMadness said:

Putin, on the other hand, is a dictator who has suppressed his own citizens and has dreams of reviving the USSR and has already shown he's willing to use his military to do it.  But hey, he's white and Christian, so I guess he's OK in your books.

 

 

Is he a Christian? Being a (former?) hardline Communist, I'd always assumed him to be an Atheist.......if he's such a threat (and no doubt he could be), one would think the European NATO members (and Canada) would be spending far more on their own defense.......instead, they have become too reliant upon the Americans....

Something Trump has signaled is no longer kosher........

 

  

[Smallc]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

American business interests are more important than smug Canadian fears.  

Trumps Russian business interests are also very very important. 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Smallc said:

Trump matters too - to Putin.

 

Good, because that relationship is far more important than babysitting Justin Trudeau.

[eyeball]

39 minutes ago, ReeferMadness said:

"Extreme Islam" is a right wing authoritarian's wet dream.

The opposite is just as true.

[ReeferMadness]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

The opposite is just as true.

True.  As I said earlier, they need each other.

[Smallc]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Harper/Trudeau wanted Obama/Trump to approve the KXL pipeline for Canadian business/economic interests, but Putin is the bad guy ?

Unlike Trump's buddy Putin, Trudeau would have a really hard time invading Ukraine.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Smallc said:

Unlike Trump's buddy Putin, Trudeau would have a really hard time invading Ukraine.

 

Agreed, that's why Trudeau is insignificant compared to Putin.  

[ReeferMadness]

1 hour ago, Derek 2.0 said:

I don't follow..........if the Trump Administration pulls out all the stops on resource development.......wouldn't the price of O&G continue to fall? I wouldn't think Putin, Trudeau and other Petro States would favor that......

Yes, the price of oil would fall, but I'm sure Putin and Trump have a fix for that.  Since Muslims have been demonized in the western world for the past generation (and now these two are ramping up the Islamophobia), the obvious answer is to use tried and true methods to keep Muslim oil in the ground.  Find a Trumped up reason to slap sanctions on Iran.  Stir up a war in the Middle East.  Both have been done so it doesn't take much imagination to see how it might work.

[Smallc]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Americans will decide U.S. foreign policy with Russia, not Canadians who fear Putin.

Trump found a winning issue by questioning the very failed Obama administration's policies for Putin/Russia.  

Ironic considering the views of Romney and most Republicans.  Canada has, under Trudeau, warmer relations with Russia that Obama's America. I'm sure Trump will soon be competing with Trudeau for Putin's attention. 

Canadians will, of course, continue to chart their own foreign policy, while the American president learns about his big job.