Immigration of religious fanatics

[WestCoastRunner]

11 hours ago, laura22 said:

Im so tired of everybody just sitting around doing nothing as their country gets taken over. obviously our government is not going to do anything about it. so.... I think its about that time we all start grouping together and start fixing the problem ourselves  before were are completely f*****!!!

How is our country being taken over?  How should this group you speak of fix the problem and how should one be allowed into this group?  

How are you going to measure that we are completely f****d?  

Sorry, but I have an analytical mind. 

Edited December 21, 2016 by WestCoastRunner

[Argus]

1 hour ago, marcus said:

We keep going in circles.

Why is it difficult for some people to comprehend that the adjectives, Muslim, Christian, Jew, Buddhist, Atheist do not automatically make the people with the same adjective have the same exact beliefs in everything?

When statistical evidence and real life experience shows that most of them actually do?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, marcus said:

We keep going in circles.

Why is it difficult for some people to comprehend that the adjectives, Muslim, Christian, Jew, Buddhist, Atheist do not automatically make the people with the same adjective have the same exact beliefs in everything?

 

Not to butt in, but it seems to be difficult for some people to comprehend that the discussion only concerns those who have the beliefs that are being discussed.  For instance, why would a Muslim who thinks there should be no punishment for drawing Muhammad be of concern to me?

[drummindiver]

5 hours ago, kactus said:

Ehemmm no! If you mean they turn backwards so that you can screw them won't happen. Don't get the knickers in the twist...

In English?

[drummindiver]

4 hours ago, kactus said:

Fair enough!

But there are people here even on this forum that vent their anger on all moslems like blame it on immigration and syrian refugees...

 

 

You are conflating two separate issues,  immigration and Muslim extremism.  Trouble starts because the immigrants may be extremists. ( no, not all , bUT you have to be an obstinate ostrich to say none)

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, marcus said:

We keep going in circles.

Why is it difficult for some people to comprehend that the adjectives, Muslim, Christian, Jew, Buddhist, Atheist do not automatically make the people with the same adjective have the same exact beliefs in everything?

 

It's not difficult at all and IMO most of it is quite deliberate. Having mealy ears has always been worse than having a mealy mouth in my opinion. Nothing makes communication more fruitless.

[marcus]

6 hours ago, Argus said:

When statistical evidence and real life experience shows that most of them actually do?

We have over 1 million Muslims in Canada who have not blown anyone up. The statistics don't support your bigotry. 

[kactus]

6 hours ago, drummindiver said:

In English?

Irrelevant...Don't understand it? Tough!

[kactus]

6 hours ago, drummindiver said:

You are conflating two separate issues,  immigration and Muslim extremism.  Trouble starts because the immigrants may be extremists. ( no, not all , bUT you have to be an obstinate ostrich to say none)

One has to be very naive not to understand that certain extremists donot distinguish between moslem extremism and immigrants... 'They' see a direct correlation between the two and blame it squarely on moslems....

[cybercoma]

14 hours ago, Canadianjim said:

we learned

Unlikely.

[cybercoma]

7 hours ago, marcus said:

We have over 1 million Muslims in Canada who have not blown anyone up. The statistics don't support your bigotry. 

No matter how many times you tell Argus that almost every Muslim in Canada is a peaceful and productive member of society he just doesn't get it. Countless times it has been said to him that there are Muslims active in our military fighting ISIS, there are Muslims on Canadian police forces protecting the public, there are Muslim doctors in Canadian hospitals saving people's lives. He just doesn't get it. In his bizarre dystopia, we're importing Islamofascists bent on destroying Canada. It's complete nonsense and an unhealthy paranoia. Muslims are nothing more than Argus's folk devil. They're a scapegoat for his inability to cope with a changing multicultural society.

[Michael Hardner]

You seem to have missed Argus' assertion that "in absence of any other explanation" religion must be blamed for bad behavior.  That gives you an opening to discuss other causes.  Sounds like that would produce some positive and civil repartee.  

[dialamah]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You seem to have missed Argus' assertion that "in absence of any other explanation" religion must be blamed for bad behavior.  That gives you an opening to discuss other causes.  Sounds like that would produce some positive and civil repartee.  

Yes, cultural influences prevalent in the region regardless of religious affiliation, as well as the impact of Western activity in the region have both been discussed.   Argus disregards anything else in favor of "No, because Islam".   Poverty and ignorance as a factor in extremism has been discussed, and dismissed by Argus.    When it's pointed out that even with the 'backward culture' he believes exists throughout Muslim-majority countries, that virtually every Muslim who comes to Canada is peaceful and law-abiding, he doesn't care.  There is no room for any other cause in Argus' mind; it's Islam, period.   So, sorry, Argus is not after discussion or civil discourse, he's all about demonizing Muslims. 

[cybercoma]

There's nothing else to discuss. The moderators are just here to coddle racists and Nazi sympathizers, in the name of "discussion." It's perverse. This forum is a dumpster fire now.

Edited December 22, 2016 by cybercoma

[Michael Hardner]

By way of explanation, we just had a US election on immigration whereby those who tried to moralize on the topic lost, so if you're more interested in achieving a result than of identifying yourself as moral you will forgo your ego and try talking to people one-on-one.

 

If I can do it, then so can you.

[cybercoma]

The US election was won because people like you gave credibility to abhorrent ideals, as though they should be treated as serious platforms and not smashed for the vile and disgusting garbage that they are.

[cybercoma]

I mean, how much clearer does Canadianjim have to be about the process of propaganda and the evolution of Nazi Germany for it to sink in that you don't wake up one morning gassing Jews. It's a process. And the fascists are winning right now because we want to pretend to have "objectivity" by giving equal air time to ideas that should be dismissed as complete idiocy. All in the name of being "fair and balanced." You don't need to be fair to racists. They don't deserve a platform and  you're giving them one by coddling them and giving credibility to their positions.

Edited December 22, 2016 by cybercoma

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

I mean, how much clearer does Canadianjim have to be about the process of propaganda and the evolution of Nazi Germany for it to sink in that you don't wake up one morning gassing Jews. It's a process. And the fascists are winning right now because we want to pretend to have "objectivity" by giving equal air time to ideas that should be dismissed as complete idiocy. All in the name of being "fair and balanced." You don't need to be fair to racists. They don't deserve a platform and  you're giving them one by coddling them and giving credibility to their positions.

Wow, Nazi Germany!  It's a good job Canadianjim mentioned it, or I would have never heard of it.

[Michael Hardner]

35 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

The US election was won because people like you gave credibility to abhorrent ideals, as though they should be treated as serious platforms and not smashed for the vile and disgusting garbage that they are.

I disagree wholeheartedly.  The point is that binary moralization did not work and gave exactly the opposite result you wanted, so why resume a failed strategy ?

[drummindiver]

36 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

There's nothing else to discuss. The moderators are just here to coddle racists and Nazi sympathizers, in the name of "discussion." It's perverse. This forum is a dumpster fire now.

I've seen no racist comments or Nazi sympathizers on here. Can you elaborate?

31 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

I mean, how much clearer does Canadianjim have to be about the process of propaganda and the evolution of Nazi Germany for it to sink in that you don't wake up one morning gassing Jews. It's a process. And the fascists are winning right now because we want to pretend to have "objectivity" by giving equal air time to ideas that should be dismissed as complete idiocy. All in the name of being "fair and balanced." You don't need to be fair to racists. They don't deserve a platform and  you're giving them one by coddling them and giving credibility to their positions.

So Canada Jim is expert on all things? Where and with whom did xenophobia start with that they ended up in the gas chambers? You seem to be espousing censorship for anyone who doesn't agree with you. Isn't that fascism?

16 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Wow, Nazi Germany!  It's a good job Canadianjim mentioned it, or I would have never heard of it.

Eyeball says history is open to interpretation. Maybe it didn't happen. 

[drummindiver]

8 hours ago, kactus said:

One has to be very naive not to understand that certain extremists donot distinguish between moslem extremism and immigrants... 'They' see a direct correlation between the two and blame it squarely on moslems....

If you are talking muslim immigration and Muslim extremism good chance they're talking muslims. 

[dialamah]

6 minutes ago, drummindiver said:

So Canada Jim is expert on all things? Where and with whom did xenophobia start with that they ended up in the gas chambers? You seem to be espousing censorship for anyone who doesn't agree with you. Isn't that fascism?

The propaganda against Jews began years before they ended up in the gas chambers.   They started with little things, created fear and mistrust of Jews over time, through rhetoric, through news stories that mentioned only the 'bad' things Jews did, ignored the 'good' things, and also ignored similar bad behavior by Germans.   Step by step by step - until Germans were used to thinking of Jews as untrustworthy and people to be avoided and feared, rounded up and taken to camps.   I'm certain that most Germans, if they'd known what was happening in those camps, would not have approved, but because they'd been conditioned to think of Jews in a certain way, they weren't too concerned when the Jews' rights were gradually removed.

Same thing is happening with Muslims today.   Yes, terrorism is a problem - but the out-of-proportion fear of Muslims is a result of anti-Islamic propaganda and not the reality of the vast majority of Muslims.   Still, even in Canada, we have support for removing certain  personal rights of Muslims, and there's even more support for that in the States.   You can comfort yourself with "That's not what I'm doing and it could never happen here", but I'm sure that as the newspaper articles discussed the Jewish problem and kitchen-table talk in Germany progressed, nobody thought they were supporting whole-sale slaughter.

That's why people draw parallels between what happened in Germany way back then, and Muslims today.

 

 

[DogOnPorch]

Jews were not conducting Jihad attacks inside Germany.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, dialamah said:

The propaganda against Jews began years before they ended up in the gas chambers.   They started with little things, created fear and mistrust of Jews over time, through rhetoric, through news stories that mentioned only the 'bad' things Jews did, ignored the 'good' things, and also ignored similar bad behavior by Germans.   Step by step by step - until Germans were used to thinking of Jews as untrustworthy and people to be avoided and feared, rounded up and taken to camps.   I'm certain that most Germans, if they'd known what was happening in those camps, would not have approved, but because they'd been conditioned to think of Jews in a certain way, they weren't too concerned when the Jews' rights were gradually removed.

Same thing is happening with Muslims today.   Yes, terrorism is a problem - but the out-of-proportion fear of Muslims is a result of anti-Islamic propaganda and not the reality of the vast majority of Muslims.   Still, even in Canada, we have support for removing certain  personal rights of Muslims, and there's even more support for that in the States.   You can comfort yourself with "That's not what I'm doing and it could never happen here", but I'm sure that as the newspaper articles discussed the Jewish problem and kitchen-table talk in Germany progressed, nobody thought they were supporting whole-sale slaughter.

That's why people draw parallels between what happened in Germany way back then, and Muslims today.

 

 

Actually it goes back long before that.  The killing of Jews is centuries old.  From my home county, for instance:

On March 16th 1190 a wave of anti-Semitic riots culminated in the massacre of an estimated 150 Jews – the entire Jewish community of York – who had taken refuge in the royal castle where Clifford’s Tower now stands. The chronicler William of Newburgh described the rioters as York acting “without any scruple of Christian conscientiousness” in wiping out the Jewish community. And William was not the only chronicler to record these lamentable acts, as the Chronicles of the Abbey of Meaux in East Yorkshire, and Roger of Howden include accounts.

Nazi Germany didn't just pick the Jews out of a hat for persecution. 

 

Edited December 22, 2016 by bcsapper
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction - Blaise Pascal

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

Actually it goes back long before that.  The killing of Jews is centuries old.  From my home county, for instance:

On March 16th 1190 a wave of anti-Semitic riots culminated in the massacre of an estimated 150 Jews – the entire Jewish community of York – who had taken refuge in the royal castle where Clifford’s Tower now stands. The chronicler William of Newburgh described the rioters as York acting “without any scruple of Christian conscientiousness” in wiping out the Jewish community. And William was not the only chronicler to record these lamentable acts, as the Chronicles of the Abbey of Meaux in East Yorkshire, and Roger of Howden include accounts.

Nazi Germany didn't just pick the Jews out of a hat for persecution. 

 

Jews were used in Medieval Europe to skirt around Usury Laws.