When Should Government Mandate Culture

[Michael Hardner]

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/26107-trudeau-government-at-pains-to-explain-pacific-northwest-lng/?do=findComment&comment=1193751

Quote

This idea that we must stay true to our ancestors way of life is a crock. 

New thread based on an MLW's statement that government should change/shouldn't preserve culture.

The Context I'm exploring is purely Canadian: First Nations traditions, Quebec Cultural History, Canadian "values" whatever they are.

 

 There is a thin line between action and inaction - where does it lie ?  You tell me.

[bush_cheney2004]

Inaction clearly lies with the false premise of "purely Canadian"...no such thing.  

[Argus]

27 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/26107-trudeau-government-at-pains-to-explain-pacific-northwest-lng/?do=findComment&comment=1193751

New thread based on an MLW's statement that government should change/shouldn't preserve culture.

The Context I'm exploring is purely Canadian: First Nations traditions, Quebec Cultural History, Canadian "values" whatever they are.

 

 There is a thin line between action and inaction - where does it lie ?  You tell me.

Well, Quebec clearly feels that encouraging the preservation of their culture and heritage is an important part of encouraging unity as a people. And that has clearly worked fairly well for them. I think Harper tried to, in a small way, emulate that by reminding Canadians about their heritage where he could, as in military heritage, for example. A people needs a shared sense of self in order to think of themselves AS a people. It doesn't matter if your particular family was here back then. You can still be proud of what Canada accomplished and how it developed. And that is particular so when so many Canadians originated elsewhere and have no shared bonding from having grown up together with those born here.

As with people, who we are is who we were, to a large extent. If you don't know who you were how do you know who you are?

[eyeball]

I figure that no matter where I was it'll never be as important as where I'm heading - which I'll pass by on my way in time too.

I'm pretty sure most of the pressure and encouragement to linger and remain in the past as long and as much as possible is mostly generated by our institutions which are after all programmed to transcend our merely human lifespans if not our lives and convey our values over time into the future.  Some people like to push them others like to be towed and others just try to keep from being run over.  

[cybercoma]

A bit of a backgrounder on the subject.

[bush_cheney2004]

OP apparently wants only Canadian context, not the reality of United States' influence.

[cybercoma]

For someone who repeatedly reminds us how little Americans care about Canada, it's government, and it's culture, you sure have an awful lot to say.

[bush_cheney2004]

Alas, one huge aspect of Canadian culture is the national sport of anti-Americanism...to the point of defining the Canadian identity.

I just play the game in reverse and some people don't like that. 

[Smallc]

The fact that you think it's a game is the problem.

[August1991]

I have no 

9 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/26107-trudeau-government-at-pains-to-explain-pacific-northwest-lng/?do=findComment&comment=1193751

New thread based on an MLW's statement that government should change/shouldn't preserve culture.

The Context I'm exploring is purely Canadian: First Nations traditions, Quebec Cultural History, Canadian "values" whatever they are.

 

 There is a thin line between action and inaction - where does it lie ?  You tell me.

There is no thin line between action and inaction; the thin line concerns corruption.

In the past, we received news (gossip) because the gossiper felt important.

Then, we received news because it was bundled with advertisements.

Nowadays, we receive news (gossip) as part of other gossip. Michael, here's the question: should the State be involved in spreading gossip?

===

To make my point more clear, should the State tax all people so that stock market prices are available for all?

Edited October 22, 2016 by August1991

[Michael Hardner]

 

Auguste if you want to get that philosophical we have a lot of places we can go.  Gossip could also be described as mythology and... everybody needs mythology to live.  If you didn't have a story made up in your head that gave meaning to your day then you wouldn't get out of bed in the morning.  So the State would, at least, need to spread the mythology/gossip that the state itself is an important thing.  Otherwise, nobody would care about it and it would lose power.

So, the State needs to spread gossip - yes definitely.

But maybe we ARE entering an era where controlled messages from the central government are losing power, as media lose power and the multiplicity of information sources continue to rise.  Maybe we are entering an era where national myths in particular are losing power too, as we learn that other countries have their own myths and none of them are a single source of truth about the state of the world.  Maybe culture, as a tool of state control of behavior, is giving way to a kind of blended mythology that facilitates co-existence.

[eyeball]

What's more likely is that the state is a tool of culture and whose behaviour is getting out of control. 

[overthere]

We tend to have a need and love  for what never happened.

We remember only the good things.

 

Why would we want to return to 'traditional Canadian values' of even a generation ago?

 

Sexism, racism, mysoginy, and hatred of foreigners were standard fare not long ago.  I don't yearn for any of that crap.

Edited October 22, 2016 by overthere

[cybercoma]

11 minutes ago, overthere said:

Sexism, racism, mysoginy, and hatred of foreigners were standard fare not long ago.  I don't yearn for any of that crap.

That's because you want to destroy the country. /s

[overthere]

1 hour ago, cybercoma said:

That's because you want to destroy the country. /s

That is me: I hate freedom and cannot spell misogyny either.

 

I should be deported, really.  To Costa Rica.  On a pension.

[Argus]

19 hours ago, overthere said:

Why would we want to return to 'traditional Canadian values' of even a generation ago? Sexism, racism, mysoginy, and hatred of foreigners were standard fare not long ago.  I don't yearn for any of that crap.

Sexism, racism, misogyny and hatred of foreigners were universal throughout the world a generation ago. Attitudes have changed. Bedrock values of respect for the rule of law and other people generally don't change very much though.

[Machjo]

The government should impose only one culture, and that's official culture.

 

Examples:

1. I might address a government employee in an official language, but speak whatever language I want in all unofficial contexts.

2. I might pay staff holiday pay on Christmas ir Easter day, but still have no obligation to celebrate it.

3. I won't burn down a separate Catholic school, but might still write to my politician asking him to abrogate the separate school system.

4. I won't assassinate an abortionist, but still reserve the right to believe that life begins at conception.

5. I will respect homosexuals but still disagree with homosexual acts.

6. I'll respect immigration laws even though I'm a world federalist.

7. I won't evade taxes to fund the CBC but will still watch films in an unofficial language online if I want to and no one will force me to watch Canadian content.

I'm sure there are plenty more examples. In short, if I obey the law, then I'm conforming to the official culture even though I have my own culture too.

[Machjo]

On 22/10/2016 at 4:40 PM, overthere said:

We tend to have a need and love  for what never happened.

We remember only the good things.

 

Why would we want to return to 'traditional Canadian values' of even a generation ago?

 

Sexism, racism, mysoginy, and hatred of foreigners were standard fare not long ago.  I don't yearn for any of that crap.

What was wrong with the attempted cultural genocide of the indigenous peoples?

[PIK]

Quebec is the only one allowed to have a culture in Canada.

[The_Squid]

On 10/24/2016 at 10:31 AM, PIK said:

Quebec is the only one allowed to have a culture in Canada.

How is the rest of Canada being disallowed to have a culture?

[Argus]

4 hours ago, The_Squid said:

How is the rest of Canada being disallowed to have a culture?

Certainly there is a 'tude among the progressive set that Canada has no culture. If they admitted we had a culture then they'd have to accept some sort of definition which would exclude certain foreign ... I mean, ethnic groups currently living in Canada. Even worse, some might suggest our culture and values were in some way better than that of, say, Muslim countries, and we can't have THAT.

[Rue]

On ‎2016‎-‎10‎-‎21 at 6:55 PM, bush_cheney2004 said:

Inaction clearly lies with the false premise of "purely Canadian"...no such thing.  

Clearly you never met John Candy.

[Rue]

On ‎2016‎-‎10‎-‎23 at 6:01 PM, Machjo said:

The government should impose only one culture, and that's official culture.

 

Examples:

1. I might address a government employee in an official language, but speak whatever language I want in all unofficial contexts.

2. I might pay staff holiday pay on Christmas ir Easter day, but still have no obligation to celebrate it.

3. I won't burn down a separate Catholic school, but might still write to my politician asking him to abrogate the separate school system.

4. I won't assassinate an abortionist, but still reserve the right to believe that life begins at conception.

5. I will respect homosexuals but still disagree with homosexual acts.

6. I'll respect immigration laws even though I'm a world federalist.

7. I won't evade taxes to fund the CBC but will still watch films in an unofficial language online if I want to and no one will force me to watch Canadian content.

I'm sure there are plenty more examples. In short, if I obey the law, then I'm conforming to the official culture even though I have my own culture too.

I get your point that if a government is to get involved it can't be sending mixed signals. I agree. But for the sake of discussion I am going to change your word from "imposition" to "promote" and I will explain why and its just for the sake of carrying this discussion further because I agree with you.. Before I do that if cultural police come to my door and make me hang a picture of Anne Murray or Celine Dion up there will be serious problems. Levesque tried that once with Robert Charelebois and we mots dsis Anglais et les autres took care of him and that fat boy Parizeau. You don't want to start with moi. 

With due respect, I am not sure a democratic government  has limits if it is  to "impose" a culture. Certainly In Canada the Charter in essence prevents the imposition by government now of any one culture I f it discriminates against another.. 

Its interesting we have always had a federal secretary of state for culture called different things over the years but how effective have they been?

If you ask me Canada has  native people with their cultural values. The rest of us came and bought into a culture of materialism.

I argue  what most people are discussing on this board is not really  culturalism tokenism, having people feel good about themselves by displaying token gestures of feigned tolerance. It's aptly summarized as the Prime Minister smiling at brown babies in photo ops while  once the cameras are off  rushing to the nearest cleansing station to be fumigated. What you don't think Justin uses hand cleanser after his sessions?

If you ask me, cutlure, real culture, comes from suffering, from experiencing failures, blood shed, torture, war, famine, and overcoming it. If those lessons learned by turning negative to positive that then  create  lasting values  can get passed on through stories, those values can  then morph into  cultural values and the kind that build and unite people. The blood, sweat and tears of certain people are the conditions which grow culture.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2016 by Rue