How Christians reconcile supporting the devil

[Guest]

Well, it's those bloody Archangels, innit?  Can't take 'em anywhere.

[Rue]

On 10/16/2016 at 10:31 AM, cybercoma said:

The rabid support of Trump from a great many from the Christian Right is the death knell of that voting block. They've lost all credibility as the voice of moral reason in America. 

Cyber where do you get the idea the Christian  Right is supporting Trump? Just curious. I am under the impression they have turned their back on him just as they did Romney and distrust him as much as they do Hilary.

I am under the impression they have distanced themselves from him just as they had with Romney only of course in Romney's case, his being a Mormon just was not accepted and was more of a problem than voting for Obama at the time. Romney even with his Mormonism must look a hell of a lot better than Trump today to that Christian Right. 

In the case of Trump I can't imagine the Christian Right overjoyed at him or Hilary Clinton. I think rabid support for  Trump is ja tad excessive on your part. I wouldn't assume they will vote for him.

Many Christian Right Senators and Congressman and Governors have openly denounced him. Start with Mr. Ryan the technical voice of the Christian Right on Capital Hill. He loudly denounced Trump. They are going to hold their nose and vote Clinton. Romney, Bush, Ryan, Powell all asked them to.

Look if I was a religious person not just the Christian Right, how the hell would I support either candidate? Morally they are both as questionable in lifestyle and values and I don't just mean the right to life-abortion issue but the whole lifestyle, adultery, etc.

Both of them are infidel.

I agree if someone is Christian Right and votes for Trump it's two faced just as you say but it would be just as two faced to vote for Hilary so can they not be said to be voting not because they agree with either's moraliy but because its the best of the worst?

I don't stereotype the Christian Right as you do. I know many think they are people who support the NRA, are anti abortion, fundamentalist conservative, hate Muslims, latinos, blacks. Sorry I disagree. That Christian Right has many latino and black voters. It has a wide spectrum of evangelicals, Christians of all sects and Catholics and they don;t necessarily think the same but they do share specific values such as belief in strong family structure

Trump is a political deviant. He's the result of a sick and dysfunctional Republican party. For someone like him to have gotten in as their leader he had to and he did exploit the dysfunction and get in DESPITE the Christian Right Wing who did not support him.

Trump is hoping the dysfunction and malaise  not just in the Republican party but across the US as a whole rides him like a wave into the White (Caucasian) House. I think its inaccurate to think that wave is powered by the Christian Right-although if they vote for him, we'll know Wed. and you can say you told me so.

Me I think many Christian rights are NOT going to vote like a lot of blacks and latinos who are  in fact Republican but voted for Bill Clinton or Obama.  Likewise Clinton is depending on a lot of McCain-Romney-Bush moderate Republicans to vote for her to make up for blacks or Latinos who won't...but will they? You think after this week its not going to cause a lot of Americans to just pack it up and stay at home? Ryan, Bush, McCain, Powell, they'e all asked Republicans to vote for Clinton-they have their Christian Right supporters.

Its a wild card man. I thought Clinton had it all wrapped and done after the sex dirt came out and Trump imploded on t.v. Then all the crap comes out about her and now they say she's 5% ahead now? 

Really? Is that 5% people who said how they would vote, but did not say IF they would vote? Are the polls assuming all the people they asked will vote?

I just don't know. There's been high early turn out-and  as a general rule that shows people want a change. Usually incumbents don't attract early votes. Is this one different because Trump is so crazy?

Its too wierd to predict.. I think blacks and Latinos are gonna stay at home and so will moderate Republicans and Saunders democrats as well as Christian Right wingers. Let's see what the turn out rate is. 

If its high in favour of Clinton I will be surprised. I just can't see her getting a high turn out like Obama. As for Trump I have written that urine hair stained fish face off many times and he keeps coming back like a cockroach you can't squish.

Regards,

the Ghost of Richard Nixon

 

 

Edited November 5, 2016 by Rue

[betsy]

A funny thing happened to a CTV newscaster yesterday.  I don't know the name of the anchor around mid-morning, but he was had by a teen (a Republican Catholic who'll vote for Trump).  The young man has made an apps to help Republicans with their tech campaigns.  So, the anchor pretty much asked the young man the same question Argus asks all Christians.

 

How can you - a Catholic - support Trump?

 

And his reply was pretty much the same as mine.  Starting with abortion!    It's about the policy, the young man explained.  And he pointed out all the policies of Hillary that are contrary to Christian teachings!

 

The news anchor got flustered.   "What about his foeign policies?"   The boy had a quick come-back to that, too.  Then, the feed went blank.                Uhhh....We "lost" him.

 

Yeah, right!  He got shut down, more like it.  The boy made him looked stupid!

Edited November 7, 2016 by betsy

[kimmy]

1 hour ago, betsy said:

Starting with abortion!   

And pretty much ending there as well. Trump hates abortions, Pence hate gays, and that's all the Evangelical Christian voting block cares about.

-k

[betsy]

Experts in politics had all stated that Trump had an impossible path to victory.  Why?   Let's spell them out here:

 

*Trump was practically alone!  Trump did not only not have the support of the Republican Party - some of them have been campaigning against him all the way to the end! Some Republicans have even publicly endorsed Hillary Clinton. In comparison to Hillary, she's got the whole Democrats - even Bernie Sanders, solidly behind her.
*Trump did not have a sitting black President openly campaigning and smearing him to African-Americans, whining - "he's going to take away my legacy!"


*To say Trump did not have the support of main stream media, is a gross understatement!
The media were smearing him, and all but drowned out the scandals related to Hillary, including the Wikileaks. They were digging for dirt - any dirt - even decade-old dirt, to use against him! Trump was battling the smears of the media, too.


*Trump did not have a lot of celebrities coming out in droves to support him. They came out for Hillary. He didn't have the likes of George Clooney fundraising for Hillary! Comedians on the other hand, lampooned and ridiculed Trump, nightly.


*Trump did not have as much funds raised compared to Hillary. His ads were not as many as Hillary's.

*How many gaffes did this rookie non-career politician Trump made throughout his campaign, compared to polished, well-seasoned career politician Clinton?
So many! All the way from the start, he made so many gaffes.....that he won the primary at all, was really astounding!


*The mainstream polls all showed he was losing! Even if he squeaked in winning the popular votes, he definitely has no chance with the electoral votes!
Hillary was going to be the President, they said......and the Republicans were likely to lose the Houses, too!

 

Just think back, and look at those odds against Trump.  And look how many electoral votes he's got!  Popular votes was basically a tie!

 

Now, let's see how the Evangelicals helped Trump win. This is an interesting long article, a must-read.  Here is an excerpt:

 

Quote

How Evangelicals Helped Donald Trump Win

In the dark hours of early Wednesday morning, moments after Donald Trump gave his victory speech to a cheering ballroom in New York, the president-elect paused backstage with Pentecostal pastor Paula White.

With vice-president-elect Mike Pence and their families nearby, White prayed over them, asking God to guide them in wisdom and to protect them in the days ahead. Just days earlier, White was traveling with Trump on his plane when he brought up how Harry Truman surprised everyone by winning against Thomas Dewey in 1948.

Now, Trump prepares to enter the White House after an upset of his own. For White, “God’s hand and purpose in this” is hard to miss—thousands of Christians, she says, joined her in three days of prayer and fasting in anticipation of the outcome. “I haven’t personally seen it since 9/11 when the body has really come together,” she says.

---------

These advisors say that Trump’s commitment to evangelicals—and divine providence—put Trump across the finish line Tuesday night. It was a strategy Trump chose early. When he considered a presidential run in 2011, he met with White, Scott and other pastors, and after prayer with them decided the time was not right.
This cycle, Trump met early on with Pentecostal and evangelical pastors, many of whom were traditional political outsiders, and soon after evangelical figures like Falwell endorsed him, signaling to the evangelical base that a political outsider could have their trust. Trump created an evangelical advisory board, which held calls with Trump’s campaign or RNC strategists every Monday morning since the summer.



more.....

http://time.com/4565010/donald-trump-evangelicals-win/

 

 

Take note that in 2011, after praying - they'd decided that it was not the right time for him to run.

 

They prayed for him!

 

No wonder Trump kept saying, "WHEN I win....."   To him, it was a done deal.   It was more of an utterance of faith and trust in God.

 

Well.....you know the result of the election.  Not only did he win as President, but he also got the two houses winning.  In other words, the road has been paved for him.

 

Considering all odds against Trump, one thing seems to be very clear here:

Prayers were answered!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2016 by betsy

[The_Squid]

He won because God wanted him to?  Wow.... that's some serious pressure!

How do the prayers work in a case like this?  Sheer numbers?  Whoever gets more prayers?   

Or does God put more importance on different prayers?  Baptists > Catholics > Mormons > JWs

 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, The_Squid said:

He won because God wanted him to?  Wow.... that's some serious pressure!

How do the prayers work in a case like this?  Sheer numbers?  Whoever gets more prayers?   

Or does God put more importance on different prayers?  Baptists > Catholics > Mormons > JWs

 

The only thing God really cares about is that you wave and look up whenever you score a try in football.  That's obvious. 

God doesn't worry about abortion because he told Abraham to kill him a son.  (According to Bob Dylan, anyway)  He'd have to be a hypocrite to worry about other people doing it.

So Trump better watch his step with those nominees, or he's going to hell.

[betsy]

On 11/12/2016 at 9:28 PM, bcsapper said:

The only thing God really cares about is that you wave and look up whenever you score a try in football.  That's obvious. 

God doesn't worry about abortion because he told Abraham to kill him a son.  (According to Bob Dylan, anyway)  He'd have to be a hypocrite to worry about other people doing it.

So Trump better watch his step with those nominees, or he's going to hell.

Bob Dylan must be senile.  Or ignorant.  Must be high.  Lol.

Abraham didn't kill his son, because God stopped him from doing so.

Edited November 15, 2016 by betsy

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, betsy said:

Abraham didn't kill his son, because God stopped him from doing so.

Phew...

[drummindiver]

Principled Christians is oxymoronic. They devalue logic and reason on the off chance they'll avoid punishment in afterlife.

[drummindiver]

If any of those dudes existed, which they didn't, it was an angel, not God who told him not to kill his son.A submission analogy for the believers.
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/guzik/commentaries/0122.htm

[drummindiver]

Argus accuses Trump of being hedonistic. Every one owes it too themselves to not only believe but  practice.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/hedonism

Edited November 16, 2016 by drummindiver

[betsy]

One thing obvious:  Trump exposed a lot of  tremendous ignorance!  He also exposed the.....judgementals!

 

 

Quote

 

Bill Maher Thanks Donald Trump For Exposing ‘Hypocritical’ Evangelicals

Maher then amusingly detailed just some of the times that Trump has broken the commandments — from stealing, adultery, cursing, bearing false witness and worshipping false idols.

“He is the world’s least Godly man,” quipped Maher. “Jesus saw the good in whores and lepers, but if he met Donald Trump he’d say ‘sorry man, but that’s a pre-existing condition.’”

I don’t know if you noticed but Republicans didn’t get to play the ‘Jesus card’ this time around,” said Maher. “It’s hard to bring up the Ten Commandments when your candidate has spent most his life breaking all of them.”

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bill-maher-donald-trump-evangelicals_us_581d7c7be4b0aac62484ad99

 

 

FYI, Christ came for sinners, Mr Maher.   Maher reminds me of the Pharisees who rebuked Christ for eating with sinners.

 

Luke 5

³¹ Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. ³² I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

 

Yoo-hoo,  Mr Maher, have you even heard of this?

 

 

Luke 19

Zacchaeus the Tax Collector

19 Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through. ² A man was there by the name of Zacchaeus; he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy. ³ He wanted to see who Jesus was, but because he was short he could not see over the crowd. ⁴ So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see him, since Jesus was coming that way.

⁵ When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, “Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today.” ⁶ So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly.

⁷ All the people saw this and began to mutter, “He has gone to be the guest of a sinner.”

⁸ But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”

⁹ Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. ¹⁰ For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

 

1 Timothy 1:12-16

Christ Jesus Came to Save Sinners

¹² I thank him who has given me strength, Christ Jesus our Lord, because he judged me faithful, appointing me to his service, ¹³ though formerly I was a blasphemer, persecutor, and insolent opponent. But I received mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief, ¹⁴ and the grace of our Lord overflowed for me with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. ¹⁵ The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost. ¹⁶ But I received mercy for this reason, that in me, as the foremost, Jesus Christ might display his perfect patience as an example to those who were to believe in him for eternal life.

 

Have you even heard of Saul of Tarsus, Mr Maher?  You ought to check up his history before he became Paul. 

 

With that in mind, yes Mr Maher, Trump's got his own history of sins (the same like you and I). 

Sins can, and are forgiven.  It's not for you to judge about sins....so stop being  judgemental.   

There is also such a thing called, repentance.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2016 by betsy

[cybercoma]

On 11/5/2016 at 6:14 PM, Rue said:

Cyber where do you get the idea the Christian  Right is supporting Trump? Just curious. 

From the exit polls.

 

Edited December 1, 2016 by cybercoma
link

[cybercoma]

On 11/12/2016 at 1:35 PM, betsy said:

Experts in politics had all stated that Trump had an impossible path to victory. 

This is completely incorrect. Nate Silver said repeatedly that Trump had a path to victory (particularly with Clinton winning the popular vote and Trump getting the electoral college anyway) and that his chances of winning were greater than Romney's in 2012. I don't understand your fascination with making up nonsense.

[cybercoma]

On 11/12/2016 at 4:09 PM, The_Squid said:

How do the prayers work in a case like this?  Sheer numbers?  Whoever gets more prayers?

Well, that can't be it because Clinton got 2 million more votes, but then I guess you have to discount the atheists from that tally.

[DogOnPorch]

19 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

Well, that can't be it because Clinton got 2 million more votes, but then I guess you have to discount the atheists from that tally.

Some of those votes were even from living Americans...

[cybercoma]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

Some of those votes were even from living Americans...

All of those dead people voting....surely you support the efforts for recounts then, right?

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, cybercoma said:

All of those dead people voting....surely you support the efforts for recounts then, right?

 

Certainly...but why only in Blue Red states? If the Greenies are really serious about this running for office stuff, why not recount New Hampshire?

Hmmmmm?

Don't bother answering...it's rhetorical.

Edited December 1, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[?Impact]

21 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

why not recount New Hampshire?

Certainly, go ahead and raise the funds to do so if you wish.

[DogOnPorch]

43 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

Certainly, go ahead and raise the funds to do so if you wish.

 

She didn't raise enough? The poor dear...

[Omni]

On 12/1/2016 at 9:22 AM, cybercoma said:

This is completely incorrect. Nate Silver said repeatedly that Trump had a path to victory (particularly with Clinton winning the popular vote and Trump getting the electoral college anyway) and that his chances of winning were greater than Romney's in 2012. I don't understand your fascination with making up nonsense.

Even Michael Moore tried to warn Americans.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Omni said:

Even Michael Moore tried to warn Americans.

 

...that's another reason Trump won.   Thank's Mike !

[Omni]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

...that's another reason Trump won.   Thank's Mike !

Just wait 4 years. You'll likely be wishing more had heeded his warning.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Omni said:

Just wait 4 years. You'll likely be wishing more had heeded his warning.

 

Already told you...just another U.S. election...they happen like clockwork.    Big deal in Canada, I guess.