Why are Liberals negotiating extradition treaty with China?

[Smallc]

I think it was/is more complicated than that. The original CanAm extradition treaty was ratified in 1976, when Canada still technically had capital punishment. Subsequent changes and protocol have allowed extraditions for capital offenses/punishment if "assurances" of no death penalty or delayed executions are brokered on a case-by-case basis. Governments have usually emphasized extradition "cooperation", leaving human rights provisions and barriers to extradition to be adjudicated by the courts.

Canada can't send someone to their death in another country. The charter doesn't allow it.

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada can't send someone to their death in another country. The charter doesn't allow it.

Many extradition treaties were negotiated and ratified before the charter ever existed.

[Smallc]

Many extradition treaties were negotiated and ratified before the charter ever existed.

Any part that violates the Constituion is invalid.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Smallc

[bush_cheney2004]

Any part that violates the Constituion is invalid.

Ignoring treaties with First Nations may work in Canada, but not internationally. Canada has/will negotiate for "assurances" in order to comply with an existing extradition treaty. China can get the same deal as any other nation.

Edited September 23, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

[Big Guy]

China has a population of about 1.3 billion people. That is about 40 times the population of Canada. Canada does have a few theives and murderers who flee the country for a safe haven elsewhere.

I would assume that with that population, there are a few murderers, thieves and thugs that have fled China to get into Canada and are now living here. I would think it is a good idea of having a process to send these folks back home and out of our society.

[Smallc]

International treaties cannot contravene the Constituion.

[DogOnPorch]

China has a population of about 1.3 billion people. That is about 40 times the population of Canada. Canada does have a few theives and murderers who flee the country for a safe haven elsewhere.

I would assume that with that population, there are a few murderers, thieves and thugs that have fled China to get into Canada and are now living here. I would think it is a good idea of having a process to send these folks back home and out of our society.

We've come for your liver.

[Argus]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com//report-on-business/industry-news/energy-and-resources/snc-lavalin-strikes-deal-to-build-nuclear-reactors-in-china/article32000350/?cmpid=rss1&click=sf_globe

Good for them. They know how to play the game, which in China includes bribery of government officials.

But how many Canadian jobs will this mean? And once China steals every bit of technology and start selling CANDU reactors themselves for half price, what then?

Edited September 23, 2016 by Argus

[eyeball]

WTF is wrong with this country lately?

What do you mean lately?

Economics has trumped virtue in Canada for decades now.

[?Impact]

And once China steals every bit of technology and start selling CANDU reactors themselves for half price, what then?

To India?

[Bob Macadoo]

To India?

India already stole our CANDU design in the 70's.

Better China do something with our designs.....Lavalin / AECL certainly couldn't do anything with them for the last 20 years.

[herples]

Good for them. They know how to play the game, which in China includes bribery of government officials.

But how many Canadian jobs will this mean? And once China steals every bit of technology and start selling CANDU reactors themselves for half price, what then?

China already has CANDU reactors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qinshan_Nuclear_Power_Plant

[poochy]

Prove that those aren't all hypotheticals.

Wait, when we are discussing what might happen in future as a result of a liberal treaty we can't speak in hypotheticals? How else should we talk about it?

Of course the reality is that we do know that China doesn't have anywhere near the standards we do, and we also know that there is really no way for us to insure people aren't tortured once they are extradited, or that the evidence against them wasn't fabricated to begin with. Even the talking heads on the National this week were united in their belief that it's not possible to trust China, nor do we have any really good reason to even try when it comes to this.

On top of the obvious, http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/dion-denies-extradition-treaty-negotiations-with-china/article32042048/ It seems that between Trudeau and Dion someone doesn't have the facts straight or is now embarrassed to admit to them. But here you are, and as usual, desperate to defend people who don't seem to know what they are doing on a subject that most don't seem to think is a good idea.

You're in too deep now, that one thing is clear, you're doubling down on the embarrassment, it's time to fold.

Edited September 24, 2016 by poochy

[Argus]

On top of the obvious, http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/dion-denies-extradition-treaty-negotiations-with-china/article32042048/ It seems that between Trudeau and Dion someone doesn't have the facts straight or is now embarrassed to admit to them.

How the heck can Dion deny his government is negotiating an extradition treaty with China a day after Trudeau defended doing so? This is a pretty astonishing gap in knowledge. Someone is either being lied to or ignored, and I suspect it's Dion.

[poochy]

How the heck can Dion deny his government is negotiating an extradition treaty with China a day after Trudeau defended doing so? This is a pretty astonishing gap in knowledge. Someone is either being lied to or ignored, and I suspect it's Dion.

And how can you take seriously any government that can't do better than this on such a serious subject.

[TimG]

How the heck can Dion deny his government is negotiating an extradition treaty with China a day after Trudeau defended doing so? This is a pretty astonishing gap in knowledge. Someone is either being lied to or ignored, and I suspect it's Dion.

The words Dion actually used:

Mr. Dion insisted there are no negotiations in the works that could see Canada return Chinese fugitives accused of economic crimes.

If you read between the lines you can infer that extradition of criminals guilty of *violent* crimes is still on the table.

[Argus]

The words Dion actually used:

If you read between the lines you can infer that extradition of criminals guilty of *violent* crimes is still on the table.

It hardly makes any difference given the Chinese government can simply falsify evidence, much as the governments of Turkey, Russia and Venezuela have taken to calling their internal opponents 'terrorists'.

[TimG]

It hardly makes any difference given the Chinese government can simply falsify evidence, much as the governments of Turkey, Russia and Venezuela have taken to calling their internal opponents 'terrorists'.

I agree but that subtle distinction changes Dion's words from simply uninformed to a cynical kind of doublespeak. Edited September 24, 2016 by TimG

[SpankyMcFarland]

It's disturbing. I don't see the need for it.

We have a fair few dodgy types from China here spending their money but I'd like to see serious legal reform over there (which may never happen) before we consider signing anything. With luck, the proposal will run into so many problems it will just be dropped.

Edited September 25, 2016 by SpankyMcFarland

[?Impact]

It's disturbing. I don't see the need for it.

So someone commits murder or rape in China, and then runs to Canada before being caught, what do you suggest? Do you want to harbour a murderer, rapist, etc? Do you want them roaming our streets freely?

[TimG]

So someone commits murder or rape in China, and then runs to Canada before being caught, what do you suggest? Do you want to harbour a murderer, rapist, etc? Do you want them roaming our streets freely?

In the past China has insisted that murder suspects fleeing to China from Canada be tried in China.

We can do the same. No need for a treaty.

Edited September 25, 2016 by TimG

[poochy]

So someone commits murder or rape in China, and then runs to Canada before being caught, what do you suggest? Do you want to harbour a murderer, rapist, etc? Do you want them roaming our streets freely?

Post #13 from the, should we screen people thread,

"Exactly what are Canadian values, and who gets to decide on them. Can we deport the home grown right wing nutcases that flunk the test?"

Those are your words, so according to you we can't, based upon our seemingly non existent values, decide for ourselves who is allowed in our country, but we should take the word of a country with one of the worst records for human rights on the planet when they tell us, 'send us that person'. Maybe Chinese values are already our values, or perhaps considering their record, we shouldn't trust them, who knows what makes sense to people like you. We can't trust ourselves to decide who we want here, but we can trust the Chinese to tell us who we should send to them for who knows what kind of punishment, surely.

[overthere]

So someone commits murder or rape in China, and then runs to Canada before being caught, what do you suggest? Do you want to harbour a murderer, rapist, etc? Do you want them roaming our streets freely?

Would you prefer that we just execute them here, or send them home for a 20 minute trial, followed by a shot in the back of the head?

[Smallc]

Canada does not extradite in death penalty cases. Claiming that it does won't change that.

[msj]

Canada does not extradite in death penalty cases. Claiming that it does won't change that.

But but but we live in a post factual world!