Leader Heights & So On

[August1991]

I'm abroad now and I had a discussion with several foreigners about how North Americans pick their leaders.

I met Pierre Trudeau several times and I remember in particular meeting Jacques Hebert. I saw Rene Levesque in the National Assembly and at a rassemblement. In various settings, I met Jean Chretien. Chretien was tall; the others short, and some very short. Quebecers are generally short people. Trudeau senior was, according to my eye, 5' 8" (1m72).

I have never met Justin Trudeau in person but I just discovered that he is 6' 2". Wow! His father clearly married up. (For foreigners, that's 1m88 - Is it any wonder that he leans down for the selfies.)

Here's the 2016 G8/G7/GeeWhatever photo:

Heck, despite the photo's perspective, Justin Trudeau is taller than Obama who is 6' 1' (1m85).

Edited July 13, 2016 by August1991

[August1991]

For our American readers, I knew that Jimmy Carter was exceptionally short by modern US president standards (5' 9) but Carter was taller than Pierre Trudeau (father of Justin Trudeau).

Moreover, I was surprised to learn that Bush Snr was taller than Bush Jnr. (I met Bush Snr on one occasion. He was clearly over 6'.) I never met Bush Jnr, but according to Wikipedia/WikiWhatever, Bush Jnr is only 5'11 or shorter than his dad.

Go figure.

Edited July 13, 2016 by August1991

[The_Squid]

Fascinating.....

[bush_cheney2004]

For our American readers,

For our "North American" readers, Mexico's President Vicente Fox was taller than all of them.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2832487/They-political-giants-tall-world-leaders-Putin-s-shorter-looks-Obama-towers-Tony-Abbott-Canada-s-PM-stands-rest-G20.html

[?Impact]

Stephen Harper was also tall - 6' 2"

Abraham Lincoln at 6'4" was the same as Vicente Fox of Mexico

The known record goes to Sancho VII Sánchez who stood at 7' 3". He was King of Navarre in the early 1200's, a kingdom in the Basque region crossing the border between the modern day France and Spain.

Talking about Vicente Fox, his predecessor from 150 years ago was only 4' 6"

[August1991]

Stephen Harper was also tall - 6' 2"

Abraham Lincoln at 6'4" was the same as Vicente Fox of Mexico

The known record goes to Sancho VII Sánchez who stood at 7' 3". He was King of Navarre in the early 1200's, a kingdom in the Basque region crossing the border between the modern day France and Spain.

Talking about Vicente Fox, his predecessor from 150 years ago was only 4' 6"

Harper 6'2, Lincoln 6'4. Factually true, according to WikiWhatever. (I met Stephen Harper. He's tall, well over 6'. I obviously never met Lincoln.)

But impact, you entirely miss several points. (First point: How/why does a short guy have a child who is a tall guy?)

Edited July 13, 2016 by August1991

[-1=e^ipi]

Short people are less likely to be elected.

[Moonlight Graham]

I met Trudeau. Much taller than I expected. Also, had a large head.

[waldo]

what about hands - can someone with man-baby hands win/be a leader... of the "free world"?

[BubberMiley]

Manitoba's premier is 6'8". And you should see his hands. We win.

[August1991]

Short people are less likely to be elected.

Bizarre as it may be, I suspect that this explains why women don't get elected.

[August1991]

I met Trudeau. Much taller than I expected. Also, had a large head.

The large head relative to body size is typical of TV news guys.

I'm curious about something else: Pierre Trudeau was 5'8 - my memory. Justin Trudeau is 6'2. That's 6 inches (15 cm) more in one generation.

[-1=e^ipi]

I'm curious about something else: Pierre Trudeau was 5'8 - my memory. Justin Trudeau is 6'2. That's 6 inches (15 cm) more in one generation.

There is the wealth effect. Justin Trudeau grew up in a far more luxurious lifestyle than Pierre Trudeau.

[August1991]

There is the wealth effect. Justin Trudeau grew up in a far more luxurious lifestyle than Pierre Trudeau.

Wealth effect? Pierre Trudeau, born in 1919, had a luxurious lifestyle.

Pierre arguably lived a more luxurious life than his son Justin.

Edited July 14, 2016 by August1991

[-1=e^ipi]

Pierre arguably lived a more luxurious life than his son Justin.

I doubt it. Pierre wasn't the son of a Prime Minister.

Also, there are gradual improvements to technology, abundance of food, etc.

[August1991]

I doubt it. Pierre wasn't the son of a Prime Minister.

Also, there are gradual improvements to technology, abundance of food, etc.

To borrow a bad comparison, "And JFK wasn't the son of a President."

Whatever.

====

BTW, Kennedy was over 6 foot.

Edited July 14, 2016 by August1991

[WestCoastRunner]

Bizarre as it may be, I suspect that this explains why women don't get elected.

There aren't enough females running in elections.

[Vega]

Justin Trudeau is probably the shortest tallest person I've ever seen. He definitely doesn't seem 6'2.

Also, for what it's worth, current American Secretary of State and former '04 Presidential nominee John Kerry is 6' 4", and I remember reading that it didn't help him when he ran against Bush back then.

[WestCoastRunner]

Voting based on height is ridiculous. Even more ridiculous to state it's why women don't get elected.

[-1=e^ipi]

Voting based on height is ridiculous. Even more ridiculous to state it's why women don't get elected.

People have an implicit bias.

There are also reason why short men (and tall women) have more difficulty dating, for example.

From an evolutionary perspective, an individual in a tribe being taller was a symbol of an individual having gained more nutrition, thus being more fit to lead the tribe.

Edited July 15, 2016 by -1=e^ipi

[WestCoastRunner]

People have an implicit bias.

There are also reason why short men (and tall women) have more difficulty dating, for example.

From an evolutionary perspective, an individual in a tribe being taller was a symbol of an individual having gained more nutrition, thus being more fit to lead the tribe.

I didn't realize we were tribes.

[-1=e^ipi]

Humans lived in tribes for most of human history.

That history has influenced the way we evolved and our psychology.

There is a subconscious psychological bias in most humans to favour tall men over short men as leaders.

Edited July 15, 2016 by -1=e^ipi

[waldo]

Humans lived in tribes for most of human history.

That history has influenced the way we evolved and our psychology.

There is a subconscious psychological bias in most humans to favour tall men over short men as leaders.

- Francois Hollande (France) - 5' 7"

- Nicolas Sarkozy (France) - 5' 5"

- Silvio Berlusconi (Italy) - 5' 5"

- Dmitry Medvedev (Russia) - 5' 4"

- Vladimir Putin (Russia) - 5' 7"

- Tony Abbott (Australia) - 5' 9"

- Shinzo Abe (Japan) - 5' 10"

- Yasuo Fukuda (Japan) - 5' 6"

- Xi Liping (China) - 5' 9"

- Jacob Zuma (South Africa) - 5' 6"

- King Abdullah (Saudi Arabia) - 5' 10"

- Kim Yong-il (North Korea) - 5' 3"

- Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (Iran) - 5' 2"

in keeping with the seriousness of this thread, the man-bun for the man-baby... doing whatever it takes to get elected!

.

[-1=e^ipi]

Shinzo Abe is 5' 10''. That is tall for japan. 5' 10'' isn't exactly short for most countries.

5' 3'' isn't short for North Korea.

5' 9'' isn't short for China.

If this is the best you could do, it's littered with bad examples.

A better way to test the hypothesis of if short men are discriminated against is to look at the entire distribution of leaders relative to the population distribution, or to compare heights with results of elections and perform an econometric analysis while controlling for other explanatory variables.

[BC_chick]

Also, for what it's worth, current American Secretary of State and former '04 Presidential nominee John Kerry is 6' 4", and I remember reading that it didn't help him when he ran against Bush back then.

6'2" is probably a good point for diminishing returns when it comes to this eye-opening Augustesque thread.

There is such a thing as too much of a good thing. Goes for hand size too.

Edited July 15, 2016 by BC_chick