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Israeli War Crimes - Part 2


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More that they didn't want a Jewish home land carved out of their own and the British interfering. Arab Nationalism is before 1900's. The grand Mufti did not start the nationalism movement as I have shown time and time again.

Out of their own? They had no homeland as you refer to it. What are you talking about. Palestine was never a homeland. Yah I know in your world you reinvent history.

You think if you ignore Jewish history it doesn't exist?

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The Zionists who bought the land, even if "official" (which is troublesome considering what or who 'owns' is questionable), they did so IN ANOTHER LAND,Either way, that land is more home to the Palestinians. [i se

This land you refer to has always been home for Jews, Christians and Muslims. It was never part of any nation. More to the point where the phack do you get off saying the land is more home to "Palestinians" suggesting Jews were not as much Palestinians as any Muslim or Arab hmmm? Where do yoyu get off making subjective, bias. discriminatory judgements that an Arab who moved to Palestine had more ties to it then a Jew who moved there...where do you get off suggesting only Arabs and Muslims are Palestinians not Jews.

Your very response reveals your agenda-to discriminate against Jews. You try reinvent Jews as having no ties to the Middle East.

That makes you just another bigot against Jews who deliberately reinvents history to deny Jewish history.

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Immaterial. The 1858 Land Code allowed anybody to buy land in the Empire. Not just Jews.

The Mufti did....

what the 1858 land code said is immaterial.

Not wanting another land carved out of your own is not immaterial. I would say that puts things in perspective.

Out of their own? They had no homeland? What are you talking about. Palestine was never a homeland. Yah I know in your world you invent history,

The Palestinian people would disagree.

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Israelis claim that the famous lands belongs to them because of it was given by God to them (loool) and their grandfather was living there first. Then according to your claims, you have to give the half of the lands to Arabs because of you both came from the same father but different mothers. So you have to divide the heritage (so lands) into two.

Now deal with it : ))) I am going to sleep.

Again what world do you live in. 90% of Palestine was illegally taken by Arab Muslims and Britain to create Jordan. Of the remaining 10% of land Israel offered to take half of the remaining 6% and the Arab League said no, you don't get any and started a war to kill all the Jews in Palestine in 1949. You want to ignore history? You want to pretend pre 1967 Israel is half of Palestine. Bull sheeyit, its 6%.

As for offering to live next to a second Palestinian state on the West Bank, Israel offered not once but over 5 times. Each time the Palestinians ripped up the agreements. What world do you live in? What world do you live in where Arafat stated he would never under any circumstance live side by side a Jewish state and never give up war against Israel until it was no longer Jewish.? What world do you live in where Hamas, Hezbollah, the Palestinian Authority, Iran, over 400 Palestinian terror cells, Isil-Daesh, Al Quaeda all have charters stating they will never under any circumstance recognize a Jewish state of any size? What world do you live in where Israel is surrounded by an Arab League of Nations that says under no circumstance will it ever recognize Israel as a Jewish state?

Tell me what world do you live in? Yah I know-one where you have been brought up to believe a script that ignores both sides of the conflict and you just swallow it hook line and sinker. It absolves Muslims of any crimes, any injustices to Jews, Christians or fellow Muslims in the Middle East.

It ignores that the Muslim religion has been used to justify the definition of a Jew as a khafir-dhimmi, an inferior infidel destined to hell and never in a Muslim world entitled to own land let alone have a nation.

Tell me Altai do you want to pretend the conflict is only a result of Israel? Really? You really want to pretend Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Al Quaeda, ISIL, PA recognize a Jewish state in Israel and its only the West Bank they want as a nation? Is that it? Is that the script you want to follow?

Well go for it and yes you will be joined by a motly assortment of anti semites. Who the hell else do you think follows that script? What next you want to pretend Erdogan never said anything anti semitic and that your homeland has always been at war with Israel?

Get real.

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what the 1858 land code said is immaterial.

Not wanting another land carved out of your own is not immaterial. I would say that puts things in perspective.

The Palestinian people would disagree.

Now you speak for Palestinians do you. Right. You even know who a Palestinian is before you claim to speak for them?

Just so you know, unlike you I did live in Israel. I did work with Israelis, Jordanians and West Bank residents. All of them are Palestinians.

The ones I know want peace. The ones I know detest terrorism and have no problems with each other having 3 nations.

You don't speak for those Palestinians. You speak for a make believe stereotype of a Palestinian that supports your fictitious, fabricated,

script a script that does not come from Palestinians but Josef Goebbels and then later the KGB.

Go find out where your script comes from Palestinian expert.

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This land you refer to has always been home for Jews, Christians and Muslims. It was never part of any nation. More to the point where the phack do you get off saying the land is more home to "Palestinians" suggesting Jews were not as much Palestinians as any Muslim or Arab hmmm? Where do yoyu get off making subjective, bias. discriminatory judgements that an Arab who moved to Palestine had more ties to it then a Jew who moved there...where do you get off suggesting only Arabs and Muslims are Palestinians not Jews.

Your very response reveals your agenda-to discriminate against Jews. You try reinvent Jews as having no ties to the Middle East.

That makes you just another bigot against Jews who deliberately reinvents history to deny Jewish history.

If the land belongs to no nation, where does "Israel" come in? I've already noticed you accuse anyone of their own view that differs from absolute favor of yours as a demon Jew-hater. But your presumptions are only sounding as projecting your own hate by reflection. Stop calling people haters and just deal with the substance of the argument. Otherwise you appear to be trying to amplify something worse than you claim you don't want....the hate.

What do you think of the link to Egypt? Should the Egyptians be the 'true' people there before? How about the African decedents before them where we all come from? OR, are you arguing some religious right to that land?

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Now you speak for Palestinians do you. Right. You even know who a Palestinian is before you claim to speak for them?

Just so you know, unlike you I did live in Israel. I did work with Israelis, Jordanians and West Bank residents. All of them are Palestinians.

The ones I know want peace. The ones I know detest terrorism and have no problems with each other having 3 nations.

You don't speak for those Palestinians. You speak for a make believe stereotype of a Palestinian that supports your fictitious, fabricated,

script a script that does not come from Palestinians but Josef Goebbels and then later the KGB.

Go find out where your script comes from Palestinian expert.

I do not speak for them but you know do keep trying to make nonsense claims about my posts to detract from the fact that Palestinians do believe that the region they live in is their homeland or else they wouldn't had this issue with Israel for decades.

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I do not speak for them but you know do keep trying to make nonsense claims about my posts to detract from the fact that Palestinians do believe that the region they live in is their homeland or else they wouldn't had this issue with Israel for decades.

You keep skirting the issue and that is Palestinians are not just the ones on the West Bank but include Jordanians and Israelis. All three peoples, the two countries and the territory of the West Bank come from people who are descended from Palestinian Jews, Muslims and Christians and from people who are descended from Christians, Muslims and Jews who moved to Palestine.

This myth that the people on the West Bank today are the only Palestinians is horse crap. They are not. They are not the only people with a claim to Palestine but most importantly and I do not disagree with you on the point, they are the only ones who find themselves without a nation. Stop blaming that solely on Israel is my point.

Look at the role of the Ottoman Empire, Britain, France, The Soviet Union, Iran, the Arab League and certain Palestinians who have hijacked their people and rather then engage in peaceful co-existence with Israel and Jordan now insist they will not stop with terrorism and violence until not just Israel but

Jordan as well are brought back into a Muslim Palestinian state.

That's a script you can't follow. Your script pretends Jordan and Israel are not as legitimately Palestinian.

Your script pretends the people of the West Bank are the only Palestinians. Their lot, their fate has come about because of an uncompromising position where they will not put down their terrorism and embrace Jordan and Israel as neighbours and form a common market of nations free of terrorists so their people can travel without being stopped as suspected terrorists.

You think because I say what I say I am anti Palestinian. I am not. I just don't engage in the myth that Jordan is not a Palestinian nation carved out of 90% of Palestine as a Palestinian, Muslim nation that to this day does not allow Jewish citizens.

Jordan had automatic law of return and automatic citizenship granted to any Arab other than a Jew claiming to be Palestinian. It was Yasir Arafat who said no, we want all of Jordan and all of Israel and waged an unsuccessful war to King Hussein in 1967.

From 1949 to 1967 the West Bank was annexed by Jordan. Believe me people like you back in the 60's never talked about Jordan illegally occupying Palestine. You still don't. Your selective script ignores it.

Palestinians have their own failures to look at . They have failed to embrace peace over and over again when its been offered. Go read Arafat's openm declaration where he had always bargained in bad faith and lied to Israel and the US and never had any true intention of living in peace side by side Israel and Jordan.

Go find out how Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, even at one point Egypt and today the Muslim Brotherhood in Jordan, threaten the monarchy of Jordan.

This was never just about Israel and what you call a homeland, its as much a homeland to Jews as it is Muslims and always has been as Jews pre-existed Muslims as did Christians.

That is my point and yes it is nonsense if you rewrite history and pretend the only issue as Israel won't allow a second Palestinian state on the West Bank. They tried not once but 5 damn times. Each time the attempts were pissed on by the Palestinian Liberation Organization and then Palestinian Authority.

Who do you think represents the people of the West Bank today? You think Abbas is a moderate who supports peaceful co-existence with Israel?

Come on, get real. You have no argument with me that the people of the West Bank have the right to call themselves Palestinians and create a nation.

Where we disagree is you blaming Israel for their choice to pursue terrorism and violence and refuse to recognize the right of Jews to a state of Israel.

If Palestinians disarmed their terrorists like the Irish did the IRA, Israel would and could retreat to save borders and yes they would pull settlers out of the

West Bank if it meant a legitimate peace. Of course they would. They already offered to. When they did, the PA told them, no, that's not good enough,

we want Israel de-Jewed. We want it to become a Muslim state before we recognize it. Go read what they demanded and still demand that is all I ask before you blame it all on Israel.

No I do not want the IDF to constantly remain on the West Bank and continuously be seen by West Bank settlers as an occupying force. Of course not.

No I do not want people on the West Bank trapped in a no man's land but just for once be fair and stop ignoring the counter productive pro terrorist role of not just terrorists but their financiers, Saudi Arabia and Iran.

As for the US I criticize Obama for siding with and presenting Hamas and Hezbollah as legitimate peace partners and removing them from the terrorist list. That was a travesty and a disgrace and an abandonment not just of Israel but Palestinian peoples of Gaza and the West Bank. Hamas and Hezbollah are neo Nazi terror cells. They kill more Muslims than they do Israeli Jews. They spit on their own people and do all the things Israel is singled out doing.

Not a peep on this board about Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah, PFLIP, Islamic Jihad, Intifada, why? Why no discussion of how they control and terrorize their people?

How do you even remotely claim to speak for Palestinians when you won't discuss these terrorists who hold them captive?

I was there. I saw them come in the night and take children from screaming mothers and impotent fathers unable to fight back.

You really think Hamas and Fatah recruit voluntarily? You even know what their agenda is and what they teach children?

You think I am a criminal because I am a Zionist and volunteered and dug ditches and peeled potatoes and painted grape fruit trees

and brought medicine to West Bank charities and cleaned Palestinian children's toes? You think it makes me a monster to

try stop a kid from throwing rocks or carrying nail bombs?

You really think I hate Palestinians and want them dead? You think Zionists sit around planning to kill innocent children? We are no more

criminals then the Palestinian parents who could not stop their children from being recruited by Hamas, Fatah etc.

None of us are criminals but the terrorists are.

You don't speak for Jordanians, West Bankers or Israelis, who you speak for are terrorists claiming to represent Palestinians. They do not.

They came to power based on hatred and an anti Semitism fueled by the French British, Nazis and then the KGB and before all that an ancient belief in Islam that Jews are a cursed people not entitled to own land or have a state.

No I do not think Palestinians are any more criminals or demons then I do Israelis and its precisely why I spit on this thread. Demonizing all Israelis will not liberate the people of the West Bank-it simply empowers the terrorists who manipulate insipid, leftists and anti semitic neo Nazis. That does not

liberate Palestinians. Embracing a Nazi salute and violence as Hamas, Fatah and Hezbollah do does not liberate Palestinians, it keeps them trapped in a pathetic cycle of hatred.

Unlike you I know Palestinians. I lived with them. I saw them blow up just as I did Israelis. Its why I say they blow up the same way. Their mush when it spills has the same gook and steam and smell. That is the only reality terrorists bring and it is the most absurd of ways to prove we are the same.

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Again what world do you live in. 90% of Palestine was illegally taken by Arab Muslims and Britain to create Jordan. Of the remaining 10% of land Israel offered to take half of the remaining 6% and the Arab League said no, you don't get any and started a war to kill all the Jews in Palestine in 1949. You want to ignore history? You want to pretend pre 1967 Israel is half of Palestine. Bull sheeyit, its 6%.

As for offering to live next to a second Palestinian state on the West Bank, Israel offered not once but over 5 times. Each time the Palestinians ripped up the agreements. What world do you live in? What world do you live in where Arafat stated he would never under any circumstance live side by side a Jewish state and never give up war against Israel until it was no longer Jewish.? What world do you live in where Hamas, Hezbollah, the Palestinian Authority, Iran, over 400 Palestinian terror cells, Isil-Daesh, Al Quaeda all have charters stating they will never under any circumstance recognize a Jewish state of any size? What world do you live in where Israel is surrounded by an Arab League of Nations that says under no circumstance will it ever recognize Israel as a Jewish state?

Tell me what world do you live in? Yah I know-one where you have been brought up to believe a script that ignores both sides of the conflict and you just swallow it hook line and sinker. It absolves Muslims of any crimes, any injustices to Jews, Christians or fellow Muslims in the Middle East.

It ignores that the Muslim religion has been used to justify the definition of a Jew as a khafir-dhimmi, an inferior infidel destined to hell and never in a Muslim world entitled to own land let alone have a nation.

Tell me Altai do you want to pretend the conflict is only a result of Israel? Really? You really want to pretend Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Al Quaeda, ISIL, PA recognize a Jewish state in Israel and its only the West Bank they want as a nation? Is that it? Is that the script you want to follow?

Well go for it and yes you will be joined by a motly assortment of anti semites. Who the hell else do you think follows that script? What next you want to pretend Erdogan never said anything anti semitic and that your homeland has always been at war with Israel?

Get real.

You are distorting it with many other irrelevant issues. I said something quite clear. You claim that the famous lands belongs to Jews because of its the lands of your ancestors and you have same ancestor with Arabs from the root. So you have to divide the lands into two and you should take the half and Arabs should take the other half. Problem solved.

Edited by Altai
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Religion (as in any ethnic or cultural consideration) should simply be removed as a component of any state or constitution. For the whole of the Middle East, I think the 'solution' would be to treat the whole as non-'owned' by any named 'people' or religion. For 'local' ownership, to prevent more collective discrimination, allow individuals to own a LIMITED parcel that is only 'owned' as a temporal factor that requires certain responsibilities.

The whole Middle East could be a haven for tourism if it wasn't for the religiously zealous of any group and to the unlimited restrictions of 'ownership' power to which those groups most interested in segregation are bound to be of the extremes. As it is now, all I can see is that the whole region is doomed for any good potential as they continue destroying the historical monuments and archaeology that the rest of the world would have had value for it if everyone was in peace there.

We need a comet....a really big one!

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You keep skirting the issue and that is Palestinians are not just the ones on the West Bank but include Jordanians and Israelis. All three peoples, the two countries and the territory of the West Bank come from people who are descended from Palestinian Jews, Muslims and Christians and from people who are descended from Christians, Muslims and Jews who moved to Palestine.

This myth that the people on the West Bank today are the only Palestinians is horse crap. They are not. They are not the only people with a claim to Palestine but most importantly and I do not disagree with you on the point, they are the only ones who find themselves without a nation. Stop blaming that solely on Israel is my point.

Look at the role of the Ottoman Empire, Britain, France, The Soviet Union, Iran, the Arab League and certain Palestinians who have hijacked their people and rather then engage in peaceful co-existence with Israel and Jordan now insist they will not stop with terrorism and violence until not just Israel but

Jordan as well are brought back into a Muslim Palestinian state.

That's a script you can't follow. Your script pretends Jordan and Israel are not as legitimately Palestinian.

Your script pretends the people of the West Bank are the only Palestinians. Their lot, their fate has come about because of an uncompromising position where they will not put down their terrorism and embrace Jordan and Israel as neighbours and form a common market of nations free of terrorists so their people can travel without being stopped as suspected terrorists.

You think because I say what I say I am anti Palestinian. I am not. I just don't engage in the myth that Jordan is not a Palestinian nation carved out of 90% of Palestine as a Palestinian, Muslim nation that to this day does not allow Jewish citizens.

Jordan had automatic law of return and automatic citizenship granted to any Arab other than a Jew claiming to be Palestinian. It was Yasir Arafat who said no, we want all of Jordan and all of Israel and waged an unsuccessful war to King Hussein in 1967.

From 1949 to 1967 the West Bank was annexed by Jordan. Believe me people like you back in the 60's never talked about Jordan illegally occupying Palestine. You still don't. Your selective script ignores it.

Palestinians have their own failures to look at . They have failed to embrace peace over and over again when its been offered. Go read Arafat's openm declaration where he had always bargained in bad faith and lied to Israel and the US and never had any true intention of living in peace side by side Israel and Jordan.

Go find out how Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, even at one point Egypt and today the Muslim Brotherhood in Jordan, threaten the monarchy of Jordan.

This was never just about Israel and what you call a homeland, its as much a homeland to Jews as it is Muslims and always has been as Jews pre-existed Muslims as did Christians.

That is my point and yes it is nonsense if you rewrite history and pretend the only issue as Israel won't allow a second Palestinian state on the West Bank. They tried not once but 5 damn times. Each time the attempts were pissed on by the Palestinian Liberation Organization and then Palestinian Authority.

Who do you think represents the people of the West Bank today? You think Abbas is a moderate who supports peaceful co-existence with Israel?

Come on, get real. You have no argument with me that the people of the West Bank have the right to call themselves Palestinians and create a nation.

Where we disagree is you blaming Israel for their choice to pursue terrorism and violence and refuse to recognize the right of Jews to a state of Israel.

If Palestinians disarmed their terrorists like the Irish did the IRA, Israel would and could retreat to save borders and yes they would pull settlers out of the

West Bank if it meant a legitimate peace. Of course they would. They already offered to. When they did, the PA told them, no, that's not good enough,

we want Israel de-Jewed. We want it to become a Muslim state before we recognize it. Go read what they demanded and still demand that is all I ask before you blame it all on Israel.

No I do not want the IDF to constantly remain on the West Bank and continuously be seen by West Bank settlers as an occupying force. Of course not.

No I do not want people on the West Bank trapped in a no man's land but just for once be fair and stop ignoring the counter productive pro terrorist role of not just terrorists but their financiers, Saudi Arabia and Iran.

As for the US I criticize Obama for siding with and presenting Hamas and Hezbollah as legitimate peace partners and removing them from the terrorist list. That was a travesty and a disgrace and an abandonment not just of Israel but Palestinian peoples of Gaza and the West Bank. Hamas and Hezbollah are neo Nazi terror cells. They kill more Muslims than they do Israeli Jews. They spit on their own people and do all the things Israel is singled out doing.

Not a peep on this board about Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah, PFLIP, Islamic Jihad, Intifada, why? Why no discussion of how they control and terrorize their people?

How do you even remotely claim to speak for Palestinians when you won't discuss these terrorists who hold them captive?

I was there. I saw them come in the night and take children from screaming mothers and impotent fathers unable to fight back.

You really think Hamas and Fatah recruit voluntarily? You even know what their agenda is and what they teach children?

You think I am a criminal because I am a Zionist and volunteered and dug ditches and peeled potatoes and painted grape fruit trees

and brought medicine to West Bank charities and cleaned Palestinian children's toes? You think it makes me a monster to

try stop a kid from throwing rocks or carrying nail bombs?

You really think I hate Palestinians and want them dead? You think Zionists sit around planning to kill innocent children? We are no more

criminals then the Palestinian parents who could not stop their children from being recruited by Hamas, Fatah etc.

None of us are criminals but the terrorists are.

You don't speak for Jordanians, West Bankers or Israelis, who you speak for are terrorists claiming to represent Palestinians. They do not.

They came to power based on hatred and an anti Semitism fueled by the French British, Nazis and then the KGB and before all that an ancient belief in Islam that Jews are a cursed people not entitled to own land or have a state.

No I do not think Palestinians are any more criminals or demons then I do Israelis and its precisely why I spit on this thread. Demonizing all Israelis will not liberate the people of the West Bank-it simply empowers the terrorists who manipulate insipid, leftists and anti semitic neo Nazis. That does not

liberate Palestinians. Embracing a Nazi salute and violence as Hamas, Fatah and Hezbollah do does not liberate Palestinians, it keeps them trapped in a pathetic cycle of hatred.

Unlike you I know Palestinians. I lived with them. I saw them blow up just as I did Israelis. Its why I say they blow up the same way. Their mush when it spills has the same gook and steam and smell. That is the only reality terrorists bring and it is the most absurd of ways to prove we are the same.

Your putting words in my mouth and you seem pretty determined to misconstrue my posts.

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what the 1858 land code said is immaterial.

Not wanting another land carved out of your own is not immaterial. I would say that puts things in perspective.

The Palestinian people would disagree.

As much as you'd like to rewrite history, the Ottoman Empire complete with its laws was a fact. For centuries a fact.

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Your putting words in my mouth and you seem pretty determined to misconstrue my posts.

No I only challenge the ones that came out. Thanks but I have no intention of putting anything in your mouth. I am

not that kind of guy.

Edited by Rue
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You are right it is all a legal game. Nothing to do with rights.

Law as to sovereignty and law as to possession of property consists of rules. Those rules can be followed or ignored and replaced with war or terrorism.

The choice of the Arab League was war. The choice Hams, Hezbollah the PA speaks for itself.

The prerogative of Israel's moral responsibility to defend its people from terror and war continues until Palestinians find leaders that choose alternatives to stabbing civilians ramdomly or doing what Hamas is doing now, building new tunnels to try get into Israel to kill civilians.

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The Ottoman Empire controlled everything up until 1918.

Arab Nationalism was born in 1917 with the sudden realization the Jews wanted their own state: Enter the Grand Mufti.

Remember, self-determination of indigenous people is permitted to all people of all lands--except for the Joooos.

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Remember, self-determination of indigenous people is permitted to all people of all lands--except for the Joooos.

Way to completely ignore the history of the situation.

No I only challenge the ones that came out. Thanks but I have no intention of putting anything in your mouth. I am

not that kind of guy.

You have already done that so what you intend is irrelevant now.

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Way to completely ignore the history of the situation.

What about this bit of history found in Huffington Post, in The Expulsion Of The Germans: The Largest Forced Migration In History, hardly a hotbed or right-wing Republicanism?

What neither he nor anybody else knew was that in addition to the displacement of the 7-8 million Germans of the East, Churchill, U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt and Soviet leader Joseph Stalin had already agreed to a similar “orderly and humane” deportation of the more than 3 million German-speakers — the “Sudeten Germans” — from their homelands in Czechoslovakia. They would soon add the half-million ethnic Germans of Hungary to the list.

Although the governments of Yugoslavia and Romania were never given permission by the Big Three to deport their German minorities, both would take advantage of the situation to drive them out also.

****

By mid-1945, not merely the largest forced migration but probably the largest single movement of population in human history was under way, an operation that continued for the next five years. Between 12 and 14 million civilians, the overwhelming majority of them women, children and the elderly, were driven out of their homes or, if they had already fled the advancing Red Army in the last days of the war, forcibly prevented from returning to them.

Where are the BDS movements? The outrage? The multiple threads?

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What about this bit of history found in Huffington Post, in The Expulsion Of The Germans: The Largest Forced Migration In History, hardly a hotbed or right-wing Republicanism?

Where are the BDS movements? The outrage? The multiple threads?

I don't see what the relevance of this is other than an attempt to draw discussion away from the issue.

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