Ontario announces plan to destroy its economy

[Argus]

It's an ambitious plan, but the Liberals have been working steadily at making Ontario into a vast welfare state on the edge of bankruptcy for twelve years now, and they're running out of time before the mouth breathers in Toronto finally decide enough is enough. Now they're going to spend billions of dollars over the next four years to wean Ontario off cheap natural gas and onto expensive electricity.

While natural gas prices have been plunging the cost of electricity in Ontario has been skyrocketing, and will soon be the most expensive in this hemisphere. Now Ontario will require all new homes be built be heated without using carbon fuels, ie, gas or oil. Given what they've done to electricity prices that will pretty much end the purchase of new homes, which means end the construction of new homes. They will expand this requirement to all new buildings as soon as they see how well the first stage is working at destroying the construction industry.

They will also scatter billions of tax dollars, which actually means borrowed dollars to the four winds, literally in some cases, to encourage a wide variety of programs which will, given our familiarity with the Liberal government, be inefficient, ineffective, and serve mainly to enrich companies which donate money to the Liberal party.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario-to-spend-7-billion-in-sweeping-climate-change-plan/article30029081/

Edited May 16, 2016 by Argus

[waldo]

I do believe the title should read, "MLW member Argus announces the Ontario Government announced plan will destroy Ontario's economy"... carry on!

[PIK]

Same thing. This province is screwed and will be for along time. Energy poverty, industries leaving, small business shutting down. When will it end.

[scribblet]

I just about threw up when I read that one. She's just screwing the province over and as the article said, it will cause massive disruption. If this is put through by the election it could be enough to force a change of gov't, one which we hope will cancel it. If other provinces do not follow suite I can see a lot of people leaving Ontario. This will cause undue hardship for many people no matter how much they give for a retrofit, electric heat is too expensive for everyone, and it's not getting any cheaper. Massive disruption is putting it mildly.

I don't have a problem with requiring new homes to be more energy efficient, they should all be at least R2000. They should also give grants for people to upgrade insulation and put in better windows etc.

Time to protest...

[Smoke]

Can't wait til "Orville" is gone.

[scribblet]

Home heating costs will become more than the mortgage payments, how smart is that.
How often does hydro go out, particularly in the winter… Don’t geothermal systems and heat pumps need electric power to operate. You think people can’t afford to buy homes now, wait until this happens. Wait until you are stuck in an electric car in snow, see how long that will keep you warm.

[andromeda]

I like the idea of building new homes designed for the purpose of cutting GHG emissions. I also like the idea of going to electric or hybrid automobiles. but changing from gas to electricity to heat our homes and using electricity to charge our cars is going to demand a lot more base load power generation.

wind and solar isn't going to do it. if we really want to cut the burning of fossil fuels and not turn to gas fired power generation then we're going to have to build more nuclear plants. either that or prepare for severe power rationing or black outs. after screwing up so badly with the green energy act does anyone really trust the liberals with a way more ambitious undertaking? just remember... 2006 -2014 consumers paid $37 billion more than they should have on their hydro bills because of sweetheart deals the liberals gave to their friends. add to that an additional $133 billion over the next 17 years. the idea is good except for the liberals having a legacy of corruption and incompetence.

[cybercoma]

Same thing. This province is screwed and will be for along time. Energy poverty, industries leaving, small business shutting down. When will it end.

Stop me if you've heard the one about Chicken Little....

[cybercoma]

Wynne is destroying the province! Know who else was going to destroy the province?
McGuinty! Oh god....he's destroying Ontario. Another couples years and it will be all over for everyone. But wait...know who else was going to destroy Ontario?
Ernie Eves! How could Ontario have an unelected premier! He'll just do whatever the hell he wants. The province will be destroyed.

Oh but wait...know who else was going to destroy Ontario? Mike Harris! His strict fiscal conservatism was going to eliminate everything! But wait, before him it was....

Bob Rae! Remember Rae days!? He was destroying Ontario!

blah blah blah David Peterson, blah blah blah Frank Miller, blah blah blah Bill Davis......

[Guest]

I wonder what effect it will have on climate change...?

[Smoke]

Wynne is destroying the province! Know who else was going to destroy the province?

McGuinty! Oh god....he's destroying Ontario. Another couples years and it will be all over for everyone. But wait...know who else was going to destroy Ontario?

Ernie Eves! How could Ontario have an unelected premier! He'll just do whatever the hell he wants. The province will be destroyed.

Oh but wait...know who else was going to destroy Ontario? Mike Harris! His strict fiscal conservatism was going to eliminate everything! But wait, before him it was....

Bob Rae! Remember Rae days!? He was destroying Ontario!

blah blah blah David Peterson, blah blah blah Frank Miller, blah blah blah Bill Davis......

Have you checked how much we owe lately?

[Moonlight Graham]

I like the idea of building new homes designed for the purpose of cutting GHG emissions. I also like the idea of going to electric or hybrid automobiles. but changing from gas to electricity to heat our homes and using electricity to charge our cars is going to demand a lot more base load power generation.

wind and solar isn't going to do it. if we really want to cut the burning of fossil fuels and not turn to gas fired power generation then we're going to have to build more nuclear plants. either that or prepare for severe power rationing or black outs. after screwing up so badly with the green energy act does anyone really trust the liberals with a way more ambitious undertaking? just remember... 2006 -2014 consumers paid $37 billion more than they should have on their hydro bills because of sweetheart deals the liberals gave to their friends. add to that an additional $133 billion over the next 17 years. the idea is good except for the liberals having a legacy of corruption and incompetence.

I agree with you. Even if I wanted to support this plan, I don't trust the ON Liberals to implement it with any kind of efficiency, integrity, or effectiveness. But I guess you get a crap government when voters will vote your party in even when it governs like joke.

[taxme]

Same thing. This province is screwed and will be for along time. Energy poverty, industries leaving, small business shutting down. When will it end.

It will end when Ontario is declared a third world province.

[taxme]

It's an ambitious plan, but the Liberals have been working steadily at making Ontario into a vast welfare state on the edge of bankruptcy for twelve years now, and they're running out of time before the mouth breathers in Toronto finally decide enough is enough. Now they're going to spend billions of dollars over the next four years to wean Ontario off cheap natural gas and onto expensive electricity.

While natural gas prices have been plunging the cost of electricity in Ontario has been skyrocketing, and will soon be the most expensive in this hemisphere. Now Ontario will require all new homes be built be heated without using carbon fuels, ie, gas or oil. Given what they've done to electricity prices that will pretty much end the purchase of new homes, which means end the construction of new homes. They will expand this requirement to all new buildings as soon as they see how well the first stage is working at destroying the construction industry.

They will also scatter billions of tax dollars, which actually means borrowed dollars to the four winds, literally in some cases, to encourage a wide variety of programs which will, given our familiarity with the Liberal government, be inefficient, ineffective, and serve mainly to enrich companies which donate money to the Liberal party.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario-to-spend-7-billion-in-sweeping-climate-change-plan/article30029081/

The people of Ontario are reaping what they have sown, and deserve it. They keep voting in political party's that keep on trying to turn Ontario into a third world province. Ontario needs a Trump kind of person who will put an end to these politically correct politicians who haven't got an ounce of common sense and logic. Emotionalism and foolish programs and agendas runs their lives, and the taxpayer's keep voting them in power.

Everyone has a right to be stupid. Politicians just abuse it.

[waldo]

Ontario needs a Trump kind of person who will put an end to these politically correct politicians who haven't got an ounce of common sense and logic.

Everyone has a right to be stupid.

insightful

.

[Topaz]

I was peeved off too when I heard about this but then, I thought, their Toronto supporters will be too and the Liberals will be gone in the next elections and the next government, hopefully, thinks this is going too far. The CEO of the OBE is the CEO of Union Gas and I think HE won't like this either!

[Boges]

I guess the theory is that this plan is so crazy that people in the government leaked it as a trial balloon to see how much outrage it would create. Doesn't seem like everyone in the party are on the same page.

Edited May 17, 2016 by Boges

[Big Guy]

I guess the theory is that this plan is so crazy that people in the government leaked it as a trial balloon to see how much outrage it was create. Doesn't seem like everyone in the party are on the same page.

I agree. In the "old days", governments would float "white papers" in an attempt to gauge public opinion. It appears that polling has replaced that process as communications becomes more and more instant and digitized.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_paper

With the latest proven inaccuracies of polls, some governments are going back to white papers.

[overthere]

I like the idea of building new homes designed for the purpose of cutting GHG emissions. I also like the idea of going to electric or hybrid automobiles. but changing from gas to electricity to heat our homes and using electricity to charge our cars is going to demand a lot more base load power generation.

wind and solar isn't going to do it. if we really want to cut the burning of fossil fuels and not turn to gas fired power generation then we're going to have to build more nuclear plants. either that or prepare for severe power rationing or black outs. after screwing up so badly with the green energy act does anyone really trust the liberals with a way more ambitious undertaking? just remember... 2006 -2014 consumers paid $37 billion more than they should have on their hydro bills because of sweetheart deals the liberals gave to their friends. add to that an additional $133 billion over the next 17 years. the idea is good except for the liberals having a legacy of corruption and incompetence.

They are built with that in mind. Even base building code changes in the last generation have many changes in that regard. Windows, doors and building envelopes are much tighter- so much so that whole house ventilators and/or air-to-air heat exchangers are required to allow for some fresh air. Insulation in above grade walls and ceilings is higher, and foundation walls have more too.

A big change was the disappearance of mid efficiency furnaces, regulated out of existence by the Great Satan Harper in 2010.

[overthere]

I agree. In the "old days", governments would float "white papers" in an attempt to gauge public opinion. It appears that polling has replaced that process as communications becomes more and more instant and digitized.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_paper

With the latest proven inaccuracies of polls, some governments are going back to white papers.

There are many communications strategies, and few of them are intended to gauge the feelings or opinions of the flock of sheep. Poll outcomes are often predetermined, the questions influence the answers and are intended to reinforce a conclusion already reached- not to reach a decision.

A case in point is the addition by Trudeau of yet another level or review to the exhaustive process of the NEB. When you cannot control the answer desired because you get to the party too late, then change the question until you get the answer your desire.

[andromeda]

They are built with that in mind. Even base building code changes in the last generation have many changes in that regard. Windows, doors and building envelopes are much tighter- so much so that whole house ventilators and/or air-to-air heat exchangers are required to allow for some fresh air. Insulation in above grade walls and ceilings is higher, and foundation walls have more too.

A big change was the disappearance of mid efficiency furnaces, regulated out of existence by the Great Satan Harper in 2010.

i understand all this. but if you're fully going to take advantage of solar power when building new housing projects attention has to be made towards roof angles and structure not to mention walls bearing solar panels will have to be built facing south. housing projects will have to be designed to optimize the path of the sun. solar energy makes a lot more sense than wind turbines. it's certainly doable but has to be planned from the start.

[Argus]

I wonder what effect it will have on climate change...?

Approximately zero.

[Argus]

I was peeved off too when I heard about this but then, I thought, their Toronto supporters will be too and the Liberals will be gone in the next elections and the next government, hopefully, thinks this is going too far. The CEO of the OBE is the CEO of Union Gas and I think HE won't like this either!

Union Gas s quoted as saying this would result in a 600% increase in the cost of heating for consumers.

[Guest]

Approximately zero.

But surely the U.S., the Chinese and the Indians will follow such a lead?

[andromeda]

if Patrick brown and the conservatives handle this the right way they can end up with a big majority come election time. the liberal party has become old and has morally and intellectually exhausted itself. it can no longer count on the big public service unions for support. this business about climate change and that only they can save the world from self destruction is all they've got. all the conservatives have to do is come up with a better plan. a more sensible and fiscally responsible plan. as for you far right leaning conservatives ..... you have to come on side with this. that is if you really really want to win a majority government in the province of Ontario. come up with a sensible plan for dealing with climate change and dealing with environmental issues and keep on hammering about the liberal scandals and fiscal mismanagement. some might feel that brown is a little too far left for their liking, but if you really want to win and bring back some sense to this province then he's the guy we need.