America under President Trump

[Infidel Dog]

Yes. I've heard the prevaricating "fact-checkers" of progdom retell the story of the seal team six helicopter crash. I've even listened to the guy who claims he was the seal team six member who killed Bin Laden.

Still don't buy it. And I still think the families of the seal team six members that died in the helicopter crash need better answers. Or are they just conspiracy theorists? Where's your empathy man?

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Infidel Dog

[WestCanMan]

23 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Look at the kinda middling to lower post on the next page.  You're not responding to me at all. 

Don't get me wrong, I don't blame you.  Since the upgrade I have had trouble negotiating the quotes and edits links on here.  It's an age thing, I guess. 

How old are you?

The genesis of our discussion is exactly where I said it was. 

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

But yes, if you were a seventy something year old who had just recovered from Covid like President Trump you most likely would have empathy for the elderly in the age Covid. That's what I'd be inclined to believe, unless you have some sort of evidence of psychopathy in Trump. Medical evidence, I mean. Not just because it's something you'd like to believe to justify your hate.

 

I think this is just wishful thinking.  I'd be inclined to believe Trump is an utterly self absorbed narcissist who would have to Google empathy for any idea as to what it meant.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

The genesis of our discussion is exactly where I said it was. 

Yeah, I know.  You still responded to the wrong person, regardless of genesis.   Or the wrong point.

You thought I was telling you your president was playing too much golf when I was actually telling you he was a thick lying cheat.

Edited October 18, 2020 by bcsapper

[Cannucklehead]

11 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Yes. I've heard the prevaricating "fact-checkers" of progdom retell the story of the seal team six helicopter crash. I've even listened to the guy who claims he was the seal team six member who killed Bin Laden.

Still don't buy it. And I still think the families of the seal team six members that died in the helicopter crash need better answers. Or are they just conspiracy theorists? Where's your empathy man?

 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.dallasnews.com/news/2017/10/25/seal-team-6-and-what-really-happened-on-america-s-deadliest-day-in-afghanistan/%3foutputType=amp

 

Nearby, there were two enemy fighters with rocket-propelled grenade launchers.  “The insurgents had no way of knowing the helicopter would be coming in, at the speed it was coming and at the altitude,” Darack said.

“They heard a helicopter coming, they grabbed their RPGs, and they fired in quick succession,” Darack said.

They got lucky.

 

 

[WestCanMan]

21 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Hi all!  Long-time lurker, First-time poster.  At least one fiddle-playing canine here will recognize me and my handle from another forum.  Not really sure about dividing my time between two sites but finally lost the urge to bite my tongue. 
 

With all due respect to the quoted poster above, I’ve never heard anything more ridiculous than the above quoted comments.  I have to echo to the question by another forum member of how old are you.  
 

Obama did not “inherit a relatively normal Middle East”. That’s like saying Churchill inherited a ‘relatively normal Europe.’ Or that Nixon inherited a “relatively normal Vietnam”.   Obama took office in 2009 and inherited a war in Iraq started by Bush that was in its sixth (6th) year.  A war that Bush and the Republicans started in 2003 and sold to the American people with a promise that US troops would be greeted as liberators, home in a matter of months if not weeks, and would involve minimal casualties.  A war where Republicans fabricated evidence of Iraq possessing WMDs and cooperating with AlQaeda. A war where Republicans screamed that Democrats and anyone else who dared to question their lies and challenge their invasion were traitors. 
 

That Republican war in Iraq was started by Bush/Cheney under false pretences and justified with intentionally fabricated/manipulated evidence. And it lead to the death and disability of thousands of US troops and over a million Iraqi citizens. It also lead to the creation of Al Qaeda in Iraq, the precursor to ISIS, whose founder and spiritual leader was released from custody under Bush/Cheney  

Plus Obama inherited another war in Afghanistan (justified IMO) which Bush started in 2001 but failed to conclude decisively   

It is also absolutely ridiculous to claim that US was peaceful or not racially divided prior to Obama. Anyone old enough to remember the years before Obama would instinctively understand everything I just described.  These days, the portion of society  most actively “devoted to genocide and the enslavement of religious minorities”

seem to be the right wing extremists and white supremacists locking up kids in cages, shooting up mosques, mailing bombs, plotting to kidnap governors and the like. And when Trump loses I’m fairly certain there will be more  

So the question to the quoted poster of ‘How old are you” seems especially relevant  

 

The ME that Obama inherited wasn’t cozy but it had a trajectory, which wasn’t “straight to hell”. 
 

The fact that it went that way is all on him.
 

The ME of 2015 2016 was a shit-show of biblical proportions. There was literally a massive country dedicated to religious bigotry, slavery and genocide. 
 

Thats what Trump inherited. Obama said that turning it around was a 5-yr process. He was dead wrong. After only 3 years there were suddenly diplomatic relations between Israel and two arab countries. 
 

The US was not a racially divided shithole in 2008. It was a racially divided shitshow in 2016. Period. 

[Infidel Dog]

9 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I think this is just wishful thinking.  I'd be inclined to believe Trump is an utterly self absorbed narcissist who would have to Google empathy for any idea as to what it meant.

So let me translate that. I'm saying presenting Trump as a Psychopath incapable of human empathy is merely what you'd like to believe.

And your argument to that is "No. You are." Thanks then maturity level is indicated there. 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Infidel Dog

[Guest]

Just now, Infidel Dog said:

So let me translate that. I'm saying presenting Trump as a Psychopath incapable of human empathy is merely what you'd like to believe.

And you're argument to that is "No. You are." Thanks then maturity level is indicated there. 

No, that's not it at all.  You said you thought Trump might have empathy for elderly COVID victims.  I laughed my ass off, and then replied as respectfully as I could.

[BeaverFever]

38 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

 

It's always fun to hear somebody from the far left explain to conservatives what they believe

It’s always fun to hear somebody from the far right claim what conservatives have said in the past.

But then we listen to what conservatives actually said:

Here is an article from 2000 in the conservative NY Daily News

https://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/bush-set-fight-electoral-college-loss-article-1.881690

And here you s a 2013 Fox News article on the Republican opposition to the electoral college 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/politics/republicans-want-to-change-laws-on-electoral-college-votes-after-presidential-losses.amp

 

[BeaverFever]

39 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Yes. I've heard the prevaricating "fact-checkers" of progdom retell the story of the seal team six helicopter crash. I've even listened to the guy who claims he was the seal team six member who killed Bin Laden.

Still don't buy it. And I still think the families of the seal team six members that died in the helicopter crash need better answers. Or are they just conspiracy theorists? Where's your empathy man?

 

Another crackpot right wing conspiracy theory that doesn’t even make sene. 

But don’t take our word for it. Here is the official DOD report on the deaths of the SEALS, which found that the deadly helicopter attack was not a pre-planned revenge attack targeting those servicemembers. 

https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB370/docs/Document 12.pdf

[WestCanMan]

34 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I was actually telling you he was a thick lying cheat.

He's not what you'd call a paragon of virtue, but he's the only candidate who doesn't commit crimes under the VP/Presidential Seal. 

The Dems should have let Biden face the music for his obvious vice-presidential indiscretions 3 years ago when this first came out. Now they have the biggest lame-duck candidate in the history of democracy.

[BeaverFever]

27 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

The ME that Obama inherited wasn’t cozy but it had a trajectory, which wasn’t “straight to hell”. 
 

The fact that it went that way is all on him.
 

The ME of 2015 2016 was a shit-show of biblical proportions. There was literally a massive country dedicated to religious bigotry, slavery and genocide. 
 

Thats what Trump inherited. Obama said that turning it around was a 5-yr process. He was dead wrong. After only 3 years there were suddenly diplomatic relations between Israel and two arab countries. 
 

The US was not a racially divided shithole in 2008. It was a racially divided shitshow in 2016. Period. 

What a joke. So much Opposite-of-reality going on in the above quote, I don’t know where to begin or what more I could add to my previous post. 
 

To repeat-  Obama inherited TWO ongoing wars in the ME that had been going on for years, both started by the previous Bush administration, and dead US troops coming home in body bags daily. 
 

The trajectory of Iraq was definitely straight to hell. Remember in 2003 the republicans told us there would be minimal casualties and the troops would be home in a few months.  But here is Obama inheriting the war with no end in sight and thousands of casualties SIX YEARS LATER 

Like the economy, Obama inherited a disaster that started under the previous administration and Trump inherited years of progress made under Obama’s. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

He's not what you'd call a paragon of virtue, but he's the only candidate who doesn't commit crimes under the VP/Presidential Seal. 

The Dems should have let Biden face the music for his obvious vice-presidential indiscretions 3 years ago when this first came out. Now they have the biggest lame-duck candidate in the history of democracy.

I don't know that that's necessarily true.  It's going to be interesting to see all the different law enforcement personnel fighting each other to see who can get him into custody first come January.

[BeaverFever]

8 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

He's not what you'd call a paragon of virtue, but he's the only candidate who doesn't commit crimes under the VP/Presidential Seal. 

Obstruction of justice is a crime. And I’m pretty sure all that self-dealing directing taxpayer money to his businesses is criminal 

[bush_cheney2004]

The emoluments clause lawsuits against President Trump and his businesses failed:

 

Quote

The Supreme Court on Tuesday declined to take up a case by 29 Senate Democrats who alleged that President Trump violated the Constitution’s Emoluments Clause, which prohibits self-dealing by federal officeholders.

The lawmakers had asked the court to review a February ruling by a three-judge panel of the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals that the senators lacked the legal right to sue the president.

In their brief, the lawmakers had argued that Trump’s continued ownership of companies engaged in business with foreign governments amounted to accepting “unauthorized financial benefits from foreign states” in violation of the constitutional restriction.

The court’s denial means that Democrats’ petition failed to garner support from at least four justices. It also leaves in place the lower court ruling.

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/520745-supreme-court-declines-to-hear-democrats-emoluments-case-against

 

[BeaverFever]

21 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

The emoluments clause lawsuits against President Trump and his businesses failed:

Trump wasn’t exonerated. The courts simply ruled that the members of Congress who brought the suit didn't have the legal right to bring the case because they do not constitute a majority in the House or Senate. 

[Infidel Dog]

53 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

It’s always fun to hear somebody from the far right claim what conservatives have said in the past.

But then we listen to what conservatives actually said:

Here is an article from 2000 in the conservative NY Daily News

https://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/bush-set-fight-electoral-college-loss-article-1.881690

And here you s a 2013 Fox News article on the Republican opposition to the electoral college 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/politics/republicans-want-to-change-laws-on-electoral-college-votes-after-presidential-losses.amp

 

The problem there is - as is often the case - those two articles you link to don't show what you'd like them to. 

Neither shows a Conservative preference to historically prefer the popular vote over the electoral college.

The first from the leftist rag Daily News is more a imagination piece to scare progressives about how Bush might react if Gore won the electoral college but lost the popular vote. He offers up an anonymous source to fuel the fire that Bush supporters would cause trouble. We'll never know, because as you'll recall, Bush won. 

In the second article Reince Preibus and some Republican state senators were suggesting the possibility of not disbanding electoral college but reorganizing how electoral votes could be could be counted. Never went past that.

In general though the conservative way is if it ain't broke don't fix it and American conservatives believe the electoral college picking the winner system works for the reasons Bill Whittle and crew expound on in the video above..

 

[bush_cheney2004]

6 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Trump wasn’t exonerated. The courts simply ruled that the members of Congress who brought the suit didn't have the legal right to bring the case because they do not constitute a majority in the House or Senate. 

 

Charges have not been levied, and no wrong-doing has been proven in a court of law.   Politics is different from criminal liability.

The Democrats failed yet again.   

If Trump was in Canada, he could funnel money to his family members with impunity, just as Trudeau has done with the We scandal.

Edited October 18, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

[WestCanMan]

Just now, BeaverFever said:

What a joke. So much Opposite-of-reality going on in the above quote, I don’t know where to begin or what more I could add to my previous post. 

Great comment. We were all wondering what your emotional reaction was going to be.

Just kidding. I don't give a rip how butthurt you are.

Quote

To repeat-  Obama inherited TWO ongoing wars in the ME that had been going on for years, both started by the previous Bush administration, and dead US troops coming home in body bags daily. 

Wars that were both entirely 'civilized' compared to the barbaric slaughter that occurred in Syria and Iraq, and one is still going on.

There's literally no comparison whatsoever between '08 and '16. Islamic state was the ugliest blight on humanity since the 40's/50's.

Quote

The trajectory of Iraq was definitely straight to hell. Remember in 2003 the republicans told us there would be minimal casualties and the troops would be home in a few months.  But here is Obama inheriting the war with no end in sight and thousands of casualties SIX YEARS LATER 

The situation in Iraq wasn't deteriorating when Obama took over. It was just the same old crap. There was definitely a need for improvement, but it did the exact opposite. The situation that Obama left behind in Iraq & Syria in 2016 was apocalyptic. The situation was a 3.5/10 when he came in and a 0.0000/10 when he left.  

Are you honestly trying to say that the 2008 ME was as bad as the 2016 ME? You need a history book pal.

 

Just look at all the terrorist attacks that happened in America when Obama was POTUS. It's almost eerily quiet now by comparison. The only terrorists that are active in the US now are the ones that are endorsed by the Democrat party - Antifa and BLM. 

Quote

Like the economy, Obama inherited a disaster that started under the previous administration and Trump inherited years of progress made under Obama’s. 

Obama and Trump both improved the economy. Neither one gets a failing grade. I'm not complaining about Obama's economy at all. This is just OT as far as our discussion is concerned.

 

Obama gets an enormous F on the domestic relations front. He inherited an America that was focused on sports and entertainment in it's spare time. 2015 America was watching the news and everyone was bitching at anyone and everyone else. The country was completely divided among racial and political lines to an extent that I have never experienced in my lifetime, and I'm over 50.

I don't remember Ford's presidency, but Jimmy Carter's America wasn't characterized by racial disharmony and hatred of police. Ditto for Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush. Between 2008 and 2016 America dialled back race relations to 1870. 

In 2017 things were getting back to normal and by 2019 racial disharmony was becoming a distant memory. Even the Dems had stopped calling for incivility against the Republican government. Then in 2020 the carefully edited G Floyd incident helped the Obamas to divide the country again.

Obama is literally the biggest piece of crap to ever serve in the government of Canada or the US. There's not even a second place. He's more of a traitor than Trudeau, and that's no small feat.

[WestCanMan]

36 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Obstruction of justice is a crime.

LMAO. You're still at the very steep end of the learning curve re: the Russian collusion investigation. I can't even be bothered getting you to square 1.

Quote

And I’m pretty sure all that self-dealing directing taxpayer money to his businesses is criminal 

Lol. Not even CNN is spewing your drivel, and up 'til now I thought that they were the worst. You're next-level crazy.

[Infidel Dog]

54 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

But don’t take our word for it. Here is the official DOD report on the deaths of the SEALS, which found that the deadly helicopter attack was not a pre-planned revenge attack targeting those servicemembers. 

https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB370/docs/Document 12.pdf

Obama's DoD guy has an opinion "The shoot down was not the result of a baited ambush."

I've heard other opinions. But I'm not sure that matters because as far as the credibility of Biden as leader goes this remains a fact:

Quote

The Obama administration spiked the football in the assassination of Osama bin Laden for political expediency.

On May 3 2011, at an event in Washington, Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. did the unthinkable. He publicly revealed the identity of the special-operations unit responsible for bin Laden’s killing.

His reckless action put at risk the lives of every member of SEAL Team 6. The Taliban and other jihadists eager to avenge bin Laden now knew which unit to target. Stunned and shocked, SEAL members immediately realized they were going to be hunted by al Qaeda sympathizers.

The parents of Aaron Vaughn, a member of SEAL Team Six who was killed in Afghanistan in 2011, three months after Osama was killed, said that the entire team was put in danger because the Obama administration leaked the name of the unit that killed Osama bin Laden.

https://www.independentsentinel.com/flashback-joe-biden-revealed-navy-seal-team-six-killed-osama-bin-laden/

[DogOnPorch]

3 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

As I said Interesting take for a populist party, especially one that’s built on upholding the supremacy of the European/Christian majority and outrage over minority groups’ demands for equal recognition (see: “war on Christmas”, “Ten Commandments” and other similar controversies). 
 

Supremacy of the majority is a ling-established pillar of conservatism and this is the only case I can find where the right is clinging to the principle of “equality of minorities”  

oh and by the way New York and California combined still don’t account for more than half the country  

A non-answer.  It’s your photo and if it’s not a Biden organized rally it’s irrelevant to the discussion.  Full stop  

 

Much as I've said to others, you've nothing to worry about. Biden is sure to win since the American people do not want the America Trump presents. At least that's what one must believe. I accept that in you.

Arguing with any ideologue...myself included...is a zero-sum game. You're not going to change me nor am I going to change you.

What I will say is that Hunter Biden with a crack pipe hanging out of his mouth can't be very good optics. But what do I know? Maybe Democrat voters like crackheads that funnel mafioso money to their VP fathers.

[BeaverFever]

24 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Charges have not been levied, and no wrong-doing has been proven in a court of law.   Politics is different from criminal liability.

The Democrats failed yet again.   

If Trump was in Canada, he could funnel money to his family members with impunity, just as Trudeau has done with the We scandal.

Don’t move the goalposts. The original claim by WestCan was that Trump is the only one of the 2 candidates to have not committed a crime. No charges have been levied against Biden and no wrongdoing by Biden has been proven in a court of law, have they?

 

Trudeau didn’t “funnel money to his family members” you don’t even have the details of the alleged wrongdoing  straight. 

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, BeaverFever said:

Don’t move the goalposts. The original claim by WestCan was that Trump is the only one of the 2 candidates to have not committed a crime. No charges have been levied against Biden and no wrongdoing by Biden has been proven in a court of law, have they?

 

Making allegations is easy, whether it be Biden or Trump.   If Biden wants to play this game, then he has to take the heat as well, and that includes Hunter Biden.

It is October, and that means October surprises.

 

Quote

Trudeau didn’t “funnel money to his family members” you don’t even have the details of the alleged wrongdoing  straight. 

 

Anybody else reading my post knows exactly what I am referring to.   You can ignore the obvious if you wish.

 

 

[WestCanMan]

24 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

1)Don’t move the goalposts. The original claim by WestCan was that Trump is the only one of the 2 candidates to have not committed a crime......
 

2)Trudeau didn’t “funnel money to his family members” you don’t even have the details of the alleged wrongdoing  straight. 

1) ...... “under the VP/POTUS Seal”.

IE, Trump didn’t use the WH as a tool to line his own pockets.

2) There was at least one occasion where Trudeau asked We to hold a ‘charitable event’, gave them over $1M taxpayer dollars, and his mom ended up speaking.

That’s $CDN—>We—>Margaret Trudeau.