WestCanMan Posted July 21, 2020 Report Posted July 21, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Boges said: Like Chris Wallace on Fox News? I'm talking about half a dozen national/international broadcasters and a handful of America's largest newspapers who have been repeatedly caught with their pants down (including a successful lawsuit against 3 of them from a high school kid) and you're coming back with the mention of 1single reporter on Fox as some kind of a.....WTF exactly? Get a grip Boges. Why don't you, boldly and for the record, state your unequivocal confidence in the integrity and the overall high journalistic standards of WashPo, CNN, the NYT, and/or NBC News? Or even just hint at some support for MSNBC? Worm away or speak up Boges, the choice is yours. Either way you're admitting that I'm correct here. I know you won't speak up, because you're scared of my harsh (truthful) words, and because you know those corporations are flat-out garbage, 24/7, on almost every topic imaginable. Edited July 21, 2020 by WestCanMan Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. "If it didn't come from CNN, it's heresy!" - leftist "intellectuals"
Boges Posted July 21, 2020 Report Posted July 21, 2020 56 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: I'm talking about half a dozen national/international broadcasters and a handful of America's largest newspapers who have been repeatedly caught with their pants down (including a successful lawsuit against 3 of them from a high school kid) and you're coming back with the mention of 1single reporter on Fox as some kind of a.....WTF exactly? He said a lot of the same things the Lib MSM has. I suppose you're talking about the Covington kid. And to I assume you will concede that settlements are immediately an admission of guilt that every time 45 settled out of court with an NDA, that meant he was guilty. https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/07/politics/trump-settlement-trump-foundation-new-york/index.html https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/04/10/trump-university-settlement-judge-finalized/502387002/ https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/04/trump-campaign-lawsuits-settlements Quote A USA Today report published in 2016 found that there had been 3,500 legal actions filed by and against Trump and his hundreds of businesses in federal and state courts, ranging from sexual harassment to contract violations to class-actions for misleading advertising, and settled at least 100 of them. It surprised many in the pundit class that this staggering history of legal activity was not enough to dissuade American voters from electing Trump. Quote
Boges Posted July 21, 2020 Report Posted July 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said: And if you test more you have more infections. That was Trump's point in the claim cases of infections are an untrustworthy stat when they are making hyperbolic statements about the high number of cases. The stat contains mitigating factors. In fact, that might have been a better Gotcha for Wallace to use if he'd been aware of it. Trump is using infection rate built into the stat when it serves him. So a better state would be positivity rate. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/individual-states It's very high in the US at 8.5% Nationally and in the states experiencing a surge it's upwards of 15-20%. More people are getting tested because they have reason to believe they're sick. Hospitalization also reflects that. FTR New York state is currently testing at about 1%. The Province of Ontario frequently test under 0.5%. Quote It's interesting though that both stats show the same thing the pandemic has lessened judged by both metrics. The fall is more explicit with death rates against infections is all. But both deaths per 100k population and death per infection show a precipitous drop from pandemic highs. In fact even per 100k America is below some of the more developed countries in Europe. I'm not quibbling that the death rate has dropped. In the early days of the virus it was very deadly, there were no good treatments. New York pretty much had the highest fatality in the world. But a contributing factor to that death rate was overwhelming of the hospitals. Which is why most places shut their economy down and told people to stay home. They wanted to reduce hospitalization. If the infection rate continues to climb the hospitalization will as well. And so will deaths. And collateral deaths because people with other issues can't be seen in a timely fashion. It's a vicious cycle which most other developed nations have escaped from. Not the US though. Quote
WestCanMan Posted July 21, 2020 Report Posted July 21, 2020 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Boges said: I suppose you're talking about the Covington kid. And to I assume you will concede that settlements are immediately an admission of guilt that every time 45 settled out of court with an NDA, that meant he was guilty. I will totally concede that settling out of court with an NDA is an admission of guilt. I don't doubt that Trump is guilty of a lot of things, for some of which there is no excuse. Trump is the devil you know. He did a lot of shady things when he was a businessman and as a husband. Unfortunately he's the best option right ow for POTUS. Trump has an exemplary record as POTUS and he's not afraid to do the right thing for Americans when it's necessary. It's literally indisputable that almost everything that Trump did as POTUS benefitted Americans to a greater extent than any other people. Nothing was to their detriment to any extent. By comparison, Biden has achieved almost nothing as a 5-decade politician and he used the US government as a tool to line his own family's pockets. Common sense tells us that when a foreign government gives one of your politicians a massive payday it isn't for doing something that was to the benefit of your own country. In case you've forgotten, what you and I are talking about right here is the MSM's drastic decline into lies and bullshit to the point where their credibility is absolutely shot and no decent person can vouch for anything they say anymore. Edited July 21, 2020 by WestCanMan Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. "If it didn't come from CNN, it's heresy!" - leftist "intellectuals"
Infidel Dog Posted July 21, 2020 Report Posted July 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, Boges said: So a better state would be positivity rate. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/individual-states It's very high in the US at 8.5% Nationally and in the states experiencing a surge it's upwards of 15-20%. More people are getting tested because they have reason to believe they're sick. Well, that's some Prog logic there. We both agree that infection rate judged against tested cases is an untrustworthy stat because of mitigations built into the stat. And you conclude from that, that we should put more value on it. Faulty testing as pressure is put on for more tests and incorrect positives as some states pressure for more infections (you tell me why, but it is done) are not a factor if such things might contradict you confirmation bias, I suppose. There's this thing I notice you doing in general. You'll lasoo some small detail out of a large pack of information and pull your hair out over it as if it's the only thing that ever mattered anywhere to anybody. What I see when I look at the graph on your link is a precipitous drop in cases even though they rise a bit again lately as much more testing is done. I look at that graph and I say "Decent job, there President Trump. You inherited a system where bureaucracies would not offer up enough reliable tests so you made deals with companies to increase the manufacture of such tests. Now there's more testing in America than anywhere." There are also more positive cases and we're what? Supposed to congratulate you that your confirmation bias is confirmed? Quote
taxme Posted July 21, 2020 Report Posted July 21, 2020 On 7/19/2020 at 11:24 PM, Infidel Dog said: I was watching Trump get interviewed on Fox's Sunday show. Trump talks about America's low "fatality rate," which is percentage of deaths per infections. The interviewer looking for a 'gotcha' today was using deaths per 100,000 of population and pretending that was the same thing Trump was talking about. America winds up being about 7th of whatever countries they're choosing even with what's his name the interviewer's favored stat. With actual fatality rate America is usually around 17 of 20 countries. It's below all the major ones with the possible exception of Germany. That leftist liberal Wallace was trying is hardest to nail Trump on something. But Trump was to smart for that commie. Why this guy is seen on FOX NEWS is beyond me. I thought that FOX NEWS was a conservative/Republican news outlet, not a CNN or MSNBC leftist liberal news outfit. Sometimes I have to wonder about FOX NEWS at times. They interview way too many leftist liberal/democrats on that news outlet for my liking. Aw well. Quote
taxme Posted July 21, 2020 Report Posted July 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: I will totally concede that settling out of court with an NDA is an admission of guilt. I don't doubt that Trump is guilty of a lot of things, for some of which there is no excuse. Trump is the devil you know. He did a lot of shady things when he was a businessman and as a husband. Unfortunately he's the best option right ow for POTUS. Trump has an exemplary record as POTUS and he's not afraid to do the right thing for Americans when it's necessary. It's literally indisputable that almost everything that Trump did as POTUS benefitted Americans to a greater extent than any other people. Nothing was to their detriment to any extent. By comparison, Biden has achieved almost nothing as a 5-decade politician and he used the US government as a tool to line his own family's pockets. Common sense tells us that when a foreign government gives one of your politicians a massive payday it isn't for doing something that was to the benefit of your own country. In case you've forgotten, what you and I are talking about right here is the MSM's drastic decline into lies and bullshit to the point where their credibility is absolutely shot and no decent person can vouch for anything they say anymore. Well, we all should know by now as to how corrupt the democratic party is when they have a guy like old stumbling and bumbling, I don't know where I am today, Biden running for President. Maybe Trump has been involved in some not so great things but they have never been really revealed to the public as to just how bad they were. Even the democratic party could never nail Trump's ass on anything. At least we have all seen that Trump has done more for America than old corrupt Biden ever did for America in all the years that he has been in politics. The guy is an complete lying and corrupt ahole. Most of the MSM media in America and Canada can never be trusted to tell the truth anymore. They pretty much enjoy lying, and do like to spread the bull chit around every day. Between our politicians and the media, It's hard for me to try and figure out which one is the worse. For now, I will go with a dead heat as they say in horse racing. If we could ever get just one politician to say the words yes or no it would be a bloody miracle. It's always words like perhaps, maybe, could be, I will look into it as examples of the kinds of answers that we the taxpaying fools only seem to get from just about all of these thieves, cheats and liars. Canada sort of appears to be a socialist/communist country where lies are the order of the day. Sadly, most of the Joe and Mary six packs in Canada eat their lies and bull chit up like it were candy. As far as I have observed now Trump appears to tell it like it is something that we the sheeple are not use to seeing from our politicians or the media here in Canada. We all better hope that Trump wins the next election or we are all screwed. Trump means freedom and liberty. Biden means more Covids and more communism. It's as simple as that. Quote
Boges Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 17 hours ago, WestCanMan said: In case you've forgotten, what you and I are talking about right here is the MSM's drastic decline into lies and bullshit to the point where their credibility is absolutely shot and no decent person can vouch for anything they say anymore. Yet this is a thread about Trump. I won't deny that the MSM have it out for Trump. Lots of people do. But a lot of the narrative around Trump comes unfiltered through his Twitter Account, Campaign Rallies and public appearances like yesterday's COVID-19 briefing. Quote
Boges Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 Quote What I see when I look at the graph on your link is a precipitous drop in cases even though they rise a bit again lately as much more testing is done. I look at that graph and I say "Decent job, there President Trump. You inherited a system where bureaucracies would not offer up enough reliable tests so you made deals with companies to increase the manufacture of such tests. Now there's more testing in America than anywhere." There are also more positive cases and we're what? Supposed to congratulate you that your confirmation bias is confirmed? The Graph indicates a very high positivity rate in March/April that dropped and has ticked back up. But consider that in March, April and May you were only testing people who were had symptoms, as the testing infrastructure wasn't well established. So the positivity rate was much higher. In New York and California, you saw a positivity rate around 50% in April. Now that people can get testing for screening purposes and there are places like New York where positivity rate is now around 1%. Those are things that would naturally drop the National positivity rate. But in states that are struggling, the positivity rate is still quite high considering how many people they're testing. Florida: 19% Texas: 15% Arizona: 24% Georgia: 15% This indicates that they're testing a lot of sick people. And we've all seen lineups at testing facilities.https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/07/11/covid-19-test-results-delayed-labs-struggle-cases-surge/5406936002/ I doubt people would endure that unless they really thought they had the disease. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Boges said: But in states that are struggling, the positivity rate is still quite high considering how many people they're testing. The actual infection rate is much higher than any confirmed testing data. CDC estimates as much as 10x higher. This is a pandemic that does not care who the president is or election year politics. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Boges Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 17 hours ago, Infidel Dog said: There's this thing I notice you doing in general. You'll lasoo some small detail out of a large pack of information and pull your hair out over it as if it's the only thing that ever mattered anywhere to anybody. If this didn't matter to anyone then Trump wouldn't have done a 180 on masks (at least in public) and conceded things "will get worse before getting better". The rush to re-open has been stopped in several states. If the positivity rate wasn't a concern because the death rate is lower, there would be no consideration of that. Edited July 22, 2020 by Boges Quote
Boges Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: The actual infection rate is much higher than any confirmed testing data. CDC estimates as much as 10x higher. This is a pandemic that does not care who the president is or election year politics. But the narrative is in opposition to the claim that the increase caseload is solely due to increased testing. Positivity rate would dispute that. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, Boges said: But the narrative is in opposition to the claim that the increase caseload is solely due to increased testing. Positivity rate would dispute that. Only for "confirmed" cases...there is a much larger domain of infected persons that have never been tested and will not be tested. Hence Trump's correct assertion that the COVID fatality rate is much lower. States are adjusting to the new normal of sustained reopening requiring masks in designated areas....so is Trump. We have gone from masks not being recommended to millions being sold each day...from China, ironically. Few governors want to go back to destroying their economies again. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Boges Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Only for "confirmed" cases...there is a much larger domain of infected persons that have never been tested and will not be tested. Hence Trump's correct assertion that the COVID fatality rate is much lower. It's got to be somewhat damning though that one of the worst infection rates per capita is likely worse. Especially when you have one of the most comprehensive testing per capita numbers. There are so many sick people that 50 million tests isn't even close to meet the demand. Edited July 22, 2020 by Boges Quote
OftenWrong Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, Boges said: It's got to be somewhat damning though that one of the worst infection rates per capita is likely worst. Especially when you have one of the most comprehensive testing per capita numbers. There are so many sick people that 50 million tests isn't even close to meet the demand. It would seem they go together, as the most comprehensive testing will do that. The definition of "sick" is up for debate. Since, as we hear in the news there are a minimum of ten x more people who have/had the virus. Of those who were tested and identified, many never knew they had it. The majority have little or no symptoms. What are sick people? Quote
Boges Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 14 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: What are sick people? People who may think they have COVID. If you think you have COVID, you should be staying home for 2 weeks. BC2004's contention is that the actual infection rate is up to 10 times higher. And I agree. In the US, people have to wait hours to get a test and up to two weeks to get results. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 19 minutes ago, Boges said: It's got to be somewhat damning though that one of the worst infection rates per capita is likely worse. Especially when you have one of the most comprehensive testing per capita numbers. Not at all....the goal was never to stop all infections...just to spread them out over a longer period of time. President Trump and many others knew that a lockdown could not go on for many more months or years. Several other "developed" nations also have high infection rates....some won't even admit it. Quote There are so many sick people that 50 million tests isn't even close to meet the demand. Infected and sick are too very different things. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Boges Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: Several other "developed" nations also have high infection rates....some won't even admit it. Which are these nations? Quote Infected and sick are too very different things. Why else would you wait hours in line for a test if you weren't "sick". Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Boges said: BC2004's contention is that the actual infection rate is up to 10 times higher. And I agree. In the US, people have to wait hours to get a test and up to two weeks to get results. It is not my contention...but the contention of "experts" (epidemiologists). I can get a test right now and the wait is not hours and the results are not two weeks away. But keep spreading the misinformation about an entire country just because you hate Trump. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Boges Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: It is not my contention...but the contention of "experts" (epidemiologists). I can get a test right now and the wait is not hours and the results are not two weeks away. But keep spreading the misinformation about an entire country just because you hate Trump. Well you're not in a hot zone. That's the reporting from the places that are struggling with the virus. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 Just now, Boges said: Well you're not in a hot zone. That's the reporting from the places that are struggling with the virus. Cite your claim for the entire United States. Just more COVID hyperbole. ...and people get tested for many reasons, not just because they are sick. The U.S. is testing more than many other nations, including Canada. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Boges Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: Cite your claim for the entire United States. Just more COVID hyperbole. ...and people get tested for many reasons, not just because they are sick. I said "In the US". Not all the US. Are you denying that Florida, Texas and Arizona are having these issues? Quote The U.S. is testing more than many other nations, including Canada. The US is testing more than Canada because there are many more people needing to be tested. Ontario still seems to test 20,000+ a day with an under 1% positivity rate. Quote
OftenWrong Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Boges said: People who may think they have COVID. If you think you have COVID, you should be staying home for 2 weeks. BC2004's contention is that the actual infection rate is up to 10 times higher. And I agree. In the US, people have to wait hours to get a test and up to two weeks to get results. Ten times the number of people who think they have covid, have covid.It's no contention, it's the conclusion of multiple studies. I mentioned this little factoid over a month ago right here. But, Zing... So wait now who is sick... the virus is like fractal math. The closer you look, the more it's there. ETA: Sick is an illness. Having, carrying a virus is completely normal. We all have and carry, and transmit, viruses that cause little to no harm. Sick is being ill. Edited July 22, 2020 by OftenWrong Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, Boges said: I said "In the US". Not all the US. Are you denying that Florida, Texas and Arizona are having these issues? Of course not...but you are attempting to project those states' outbreaks to the entire country, along with their actions, when each state/governor determines that. Quote The US is testing more than Canada because there are many more people needing to be tested. Ontario still seems to test 20,000+ a day with an under 1% positivity rate. If testing is so wonderful, then why is Canada lagging other nations ? Since you hold Trump to be responsible, do you admit he has been better at ramping up testing resources ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Boges Posted July 22, 2020 Report Posted July 22, 2020 1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Of course not...but you are attempting to project those states' outbreaks to the entire country, along with their actions, when each state/governor determines that. I am not. You took it that way because you're being defensive. Quote If testing is so wonderful, then why is Canada lagging other nations ? Since you hold Trump to be responsible, do you admit he has been better at ramping up testing resources ? It's not. Should Canada be testing people at random? Canada's testing is certainly comparable. AND people don't have to pay for tests. But the demand isn't overwhelming. Doug Ford actually asked people to get testing recently. Quote
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