America under President Trump

Boges · June 26, 2020

8 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

My view is that anyone who lets their hatred of Trump to fog the reality of U.S. politics is just too biased to be objective. They are running on emotions.

Would you say the same of people who actively hated Obama?

Like, say Tea Partiers?

The reality of US politics is that Biden only needs to win back 3 states Obama won and the White House is his.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Boges

bush_cheney2004 · June 26, 2020

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

Would you say the same of people who actively hated Obama?

Like, say Tea Partiers?

The reality of US politics is that Biden only needs to win back 3 states Obama won and the White House is his.

Sure, but the hatred for Obama did not run so deep.

The Tea Party movement was started long before Obama became president, for completely different objectives.

U.S. politics is not static....Obama was a different point in U.S. history. Just ask Hillary Clinton.

Michael Hardner · June 26, 2020

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

So...like Abe Lincoln or JFK ? They both met untimely deaths and the overall direction of the country did not change.

Well, I would say you are absolutely incorrect on both of those.

Of course the war had just ended in the former case, and in the latter case LBJ was more of an FDR type than JFK ...

But how much change is 'change' is a question too, I guess.

bush_cheney2004 · June 26, 2020

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

Of course the war had just ended in the former case,

Ergo, Lincoln's death did not change the outcome. Reconstruction proceeded just as planned.

Quote

and in the latter case LBJ was more of an FDR type than JFK ...

But how much change is 'change' is a question too, I guess.

Not so different in practice.....http://www.socialstudieshelp.com/USRA_JFK_vs_LBJ.htm

Kennedy - The New Freedom

Johnson - The Great Society

1. Peace Corps

2. Space Program

3. Housing Act of 1961

4. Passage of the 24^th amendment

5. Stewardship through the cold war (Berlion Aqirlift, Cuban Missle Crisis)

6. Great public persona and charisma, great control of the media - first lady, Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy and he were "American royalty."

7. Bay of Pigs

8. No real Civil Rights laws passed.

1. Civil Rights Act of 1964

2. The War on Poverty

Economic Opportunity Act created the Office of Economic Opportunity (OEO)
Job Corps
VISTA - Volunteers in Service to America
90 out of 115 recommendations approved in 1965 (arm twister) Appalachian Redevelopment Act
Project Head Start

3. 1965 Voting Rights Act

4. Vietnam

Michael Hardner · June 26, 2020

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

1. Lincoln's death did not change the outcome. Reconstruction proceeded just as planned.

2. Not so different in practice.....http://www.socialstudieshelp.com/USRA_JFK_vs_LBJ.htm

1. True but the country DID change... which is what you said. But ok...

2. Those look like two different columns to me. Same theme, different programs.

bush_cheney2004 · June 26, 2020

11 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. True but the country DID change... which is what you said. But ok...

2. Those look like two different columns to me. Same theme, different programs.

The country has been changing since 1776. Correlating such changes specifically to who is president is very problematic, because many other factors are in play. Presidents can influence domestic and foreign policy, but the story arc is more consistent with social, economic, and political change regardless of who is president. LBJ actually continued many JFK initiatives (e.g. space program).

As an example, Barack Obama was against same-sex marriage for personal (religious) and political reasons, but "evolved" to attack DOMA by the 2008 campaign. Social development overshadowed whatever the president believed or mandated through policy.

Hoping that Trump dies in office ignores many other nuts and bolts that would remain from the same machine.

Edited June 26, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

eyeball · June 26, 2020

7 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

By now it should be clear, there is a media agenda to disrupt civil society in the United States. What's happening in Canada is merely spillover effect as Canadians typically and react to all things cultural coming from the USA. The Democrats are using this to their advantage... it is good that the country is falling into chaos under Donald Trump. They seek to paint this as the kind of America he has created.

What's interesting is that media outlets in countries all around the world float the same articles, use the same biased tones that Trump is the reason the US is in "utter chaos" today. That statement is not even true, of course. Political manipulation becomes a coup, or revolution when it gets to the point of causing real-world damage, and using that damage as a political lever. That the effort seems to be coordinated, orchestrated events released one-by-one, makes me think there is a purpose behind this. There is an intelligence that seeks to make these events happen, and to make them appear much worse than they are through ready access to huge media outlets. It can only be a cabal of millionaires or billionaires. Trump has many enemies at this level and there is no reason for them not to use their power, in consolidated fashion, to create the news you see before you now.

OftenWrong · June 27, 2020

12 hours ago, Boges said:

To say it's all manipulation for leftist propaganda is itself propaganda.

Leftism is only the vehicle for their revolution.

Don't forget this one:

Bloomberg: "See you soon, Donald."

Link

It's not crazy to think there are some powerful financial forces who hate Trump, for whatever reasons they have, probably financial because that's all that matters, and they want to ruin anything he does. The rest of us are just along for the ride.

Michael Hardner · June 27, 2020

15 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Hoping that Trump dies in office ignores many other nuts and bolts that would remain from the same machine.

Yes, I'm a Christian atheist so I especially don't do that in earnest.

Like the ethical 'trolley question' it's sometimes bare math that tells us someone should die to save the herd, and the math can be very easy sometimes.

Michael Hardner · June 27, 2020

I don't quite understand this, but maybe @Shady can confirm this is just trolling and not an earnest admission of the president's self-regard as a perfect person:

bush_cheney2004 · June 27, 2020

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Like the ethical 'trolley question' it's sometimes bare math that tells us someone should die to save the herd, and the math can be very easy sometimes.

But the math still wouldn't add up. Expressing such a view about Trump is one of frustration and desperation, having not only no power over the political process that put him there in the first place and keeps him very much alive, but extends to utter disdain for the people who do. That Trump should die for the good of the "herd" grants him even more power and influence than he actually has, so much so it can only be trumped by "death". It turns the protest and dissidence of a large gas balloon effigy into defeat, because the large orange balloon has won and didn't go away by any other means (election, investigation(s), impeachment, lawsuits, etc.).

I can't recall such an opinion being posted about any other national political figure, unless one includes and equates Canadian MP Carolyn Parrish stomping on a George W. Bush voodoo doll to wishing for his untimely demise. I guess she was very frustrated too.

Michael Hardner · June 27, 2020

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

1. ... is one of frustration and desperation, having not only no power over the political process that put him there in the first place and keeps him very much alive, but extends to utter disdain for the people who do.

2. ..grants him even more power and influence than he actually has, so much so it can only be trumped by "death".

3. I can't recall such an opinion being posted about any other national political figure, unless one includes and equates Canadian MP Carolyn Parrish stomping on a George W. Bush voodoo doll to wishing for his untimely demise. I guess she was very frustrated too.

1. You can't ascertain my motivations better than I can.

2. We can debate exactly how much influence he has, but his influence over US health policy and it's attendant impacts isn't a question, in that it's huge.

3. You can't say for sure. It could all be a calculated act, just as Trudeau's tears are purported to be.

bush_cheney2004 · June 27, 2020

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. You can't ascertain my motivations better than I can.

2. We can debate exactly how much influence he has, but his influence over US health policy and it's attendant impacts isn't a question, in that it's huge.

3. You can't say for sure. It could all be a calculated act, just as Trudeau's tears are purported to be.

1. OK...that's fair...what are your motivations ? Are you really invested so much into the life (and death) of this or any U.S. president ?

2. Huge compared to what ? Congress and the courts have stymied Trump on several health care fronts. If you mean COVID-19 specifically, state governors and local governments have far more impact than Trump's grandstanding. Individuals are also making different choices regardless of Trump, same as previous presidents and pandemics.

3. Either way, I can say with certainty that Trump is just another U.S. president, without magical powers or divine providence. His antics should have less and less impact as time goes on, except for those who continue to give him oxygen, which is exactly what he wants.

It is said by Christians that Jesus died for humanity's sins...Donald Trump is clearly not Jesus.

Edited June 27, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

Michael Hardner · June 27, 2020

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

1.   OK...that's fair...what are your motivations ?     Are you really invested so much into the life (and death) of this or any U.S. president ?

2. Huge compared to what ?    Congress and the courts have stymied Trump on several health care fronts.   If you mean COVID-19 specifically, state governors and local governments have far more impact than Trump's grandstanding.   Individuals are also making different choices regardless of Trump, same as previous presidents and pandemics.

3. Either way, I can say with certainty that Trump is just another U.S. president, without magical powers or divine providence.   His antics should have less and less impact as time goes on, except for those who continue to give him oxygen, which is exactly what he wants.

1. I'm invested enough to comment, yes.

2. Yes, he still has an objectively large impact.

3. Agreed

bush_cheney2004 · June 27, 2020

8 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I'm invested enough to comment, yes.

2. Yes, he still has an objectively large impact.

3. Agreed

1. OK...I will chalk the death wish up to editorial creativity.

2. The material impact on the ground would largely be the same for any U.S. president and existing federal agencies. Trump's indifference and political motivations in an election year are paralleled by wanton disregard by other groups seeking social and political change, sometimes violently. Other nations with worse mortality outcomes than the U.S. (like UK, Sweden, Spain, Italy, France) are not subjected to the feckless leader label.

3. Trump will win or lose doing things his way. A politically neutered Trump wouldn't be any fun at all.

Boges · June 29, 2020

So either Trump is in the pocket of Putin and actively racist. . . or he's incompetent.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/28/trump-denies-knowledge-of-russian-bounties-us-troops

He wasn't told? Or maybe he just doesn't read his briefs. Regardless, now that he knows he should come down hard on Russia right? No of course not, just deny the story.

And then this. . .

https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/06/28/884392576/trump-retweets-video-of-apparent-supporter-saying-white-power

It's clear as day that dude said White Power. I actually don't think Trump knowingly posted the video seeing it. Which is almost worse. He doesn't actually view the stuff he posts. Which is pure incompetence. At the same time he's trying to call Biden a "Low IQ" candidate. Talk about pot calling the kettle black.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Boges

bush_cheney2004 · June 29, 2020

10 minutes ago, Boges said:

It's clear as day that dude said White Power. I actually don't think Trump knowingly posted the video seeing it. Which is almost worse. He doesn't actually view the stuff he posts. Which is pure incompetence. At the same time he's trying to call Biden a "Low IQ" candidate. Talk about pot calling the kettle black.

Yawn.....President Barack Obama and Rev. Jeremiah Wright....in person...no retweets.

Boges · June 29, 2020

7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Yawn.....President Barack Obama and Rev. Jeremiah Wright....in person...no retweets.

Oh so you concede he knowingly advocated for a dude saying "White Power".

Good to know.

bush_cheney2004 · June 29, 2020

6 minutes ago, Boges said:

Oh so you concede he knowingly advocated for a dude saying "White Power".

Good to know.

Of course I do...."dude" can say whatever he wants in the USA. It is not Canada.

See "First Amendment".

You may find this hard to believe, but some Americans have also been known to say...."BLACK POWER".

Edited June 29, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

Boges · June 29, 2020

9 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

You may find this hard to believe, but some Americans have also been known to say...."BLACK POWER".

And I'm sure you'd call them racist organizations.

If it was cool then why was Trump such a pussy and took the post down. Stand by your free speech!

bush_cheney2004 · June 29, 2020

Just now, Boges said:

And I'm sure you'd call them racist organizations.

If it was cool then why was Trump such a pussy and took the post down. Stand by your free speech!

So what if they are "racist organizations". Hell, Canada's government is a racist organization too (e.g. Indian Act).

Why did Obama leave Rev. Jeremiah Wright ?

Boges · June 29, 2020

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

So what if they are "racist organizations". Hell, Canada's government is a racist organization too (e.g. Indian Act).

Why did Obama leave Rev. Jeremiah Wright ?

It must be exhausting to feel you have to defend this clown just because Canadians are laughing at him.

How can you make the Russian Bounty story about Canada or Obama?

bush_cheney2004 · June 29, 2020

1 minute ago, Boges said:

It must be exhausting to feel you have to defend this clown just because Canadians are laughing at him.

How can you make the Russian Bounty story about Canada or Obama?

Obviously it is not exhausting for me...try to keep up if you can.

I thoroughly enjoy destroying your fits of cross border rage with history, logic, and the law.

Boges · June 29, 2020

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Obviously it is not exhausting for me...try to keep up if you can.

I thoroughly enjoy destroying your fits of cross border rage with history, logic, and the law.

It's people in your own country that highlights this stuff. Even GOP Senators are turned off by support a guy yelling "White Power".

We're just gawking. It's actually sad that he can't take any authority and talk about the Corona Virus because he's washed his hands of the consequences.

bush_cheney2004 · June 29, 2020

24 minutes ago, Boges said:

It's people in your own country that highlights this stuff. Even GOP Senators are turned off by support a guy yelling "White Power".

Again...so what ? I am not a GOP member and many Americans do not drink the political party Kool-Aid® as in Canada.

GOP Senators hated Trump back in 2016 too....then they loved him.

So much for that argument...see how easy that was ?

Quote

We're just gawking. It's actually sad that he can't take any authority and talk about the Corona Virus because he's washed his hands of the consequences.

I know...."sad" is a Canadian virtue signal. We just laugh at that sort of thing and continue watching WWF.