America under President Trump

blackbird · May 20, 2017

2 hours ago, Argus said:

And you know this because you've done your own in depth investigation?

Innocent until proven guilty!

Omni · May 21, 2017

17 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Innocent until proven guilty!

And as the evidence continues to mount, the WH lawyers are gearing up.

Bob Macadoo · May 21, 2017

Suspicious and investigating until proven innocent......rock meet hard place.

22 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Innocent until proven guilty!

OftenWrong · May 21, 2017

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

Innocent until proven guilty!

Yup exactly. Still waiting to see that evidence... any evidence about anything at all.

Omni · May 21, 2017

37 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Yup exactly. Still waiting to see that evidence... any evidence about anything at all.

It all begins with Trump's little meet with the Ruskies.

OftenWrong · May 21, 2017

On 2017-05-19 at 5:07 PM, Omni said:

And of course by the time AF1 touches down in the ME, the news will be out there and the Saudis will be able to have a little fun with him, especially after all his anti Muslim rhetoric.

How's that workin out?

Omni · May 21, 2017

2 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

How's that workin out?

They wanted to get the arms deal signed, after that they don't care. We'll see how his speech goes. I imagine his handlers have admonished to just read only what they have written and say nothing else.

OftenWrong · May 21, 2017

5 minutes ago, Omni said:

They wanted to get the arms deal signed, after that they don't care. We'll see how his speech goes. I imagine his handlers have admonished to just read only what they have written and say nothing else.

I see. Oh well, maybe next time.

Omni · May 21, 2017

2 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I see. Oh well, maybe next time.

He may well not have a next time.

dialamah · May 21, 2017

Watching Trump's speech in SA. He looks like he's falling asleep during the Saudi King's speech; he sounds like he's drugged during his speech. Congratulates everybody on the warm and long partnership between SA and the US. Talks about how wonderful America is, and about all the great things that have resulted since he took office. "We are not here to lecture. We are not here to tell people how to live, how to worship". "This summit is the beginning of the end for [terrorists] ... the beginning of peace for the middle east and all over the world". Admits that Muslims have suffered the most from terrorism. A tragedy of epic proportions. Suggests people should flock to the Middle East and mentions briefly how great Islam is. Talks about how the potential of the Middle East is held back by violence and terror, which cannot be accepted or ignored. "Every time a terrorist kills an innocent person, it's an insult to their faith. Those people do not worship god, but death." Says that the Middle East cannot wait for America to crush their problems; they have to do it themselves. Their nations have to drive out extremists and terrorists; drive them out of nation, communities, holy places, their holy land. America will give up doing what doesn't work and will change their approach. Claims US is here for peace, but announces a billion-dollar deal for arms and promises to help SA get 'the best deal' for US arms, which are the best in the world.

Faces in the audience look unconvinced, comments on the side are not supportive.

Trump is proud to announce a new committee created to stop terrorists from using oil to fund themselves and announces Hezbollah a terrorist organization, and SA and US have sanctioned Hezbollah leadership. Claims profound effect on terrorists. Has trouble pronouncing ethnicity. Sounds like he's short of breath, and almost slurring words. Points to Iran as major/only supporter of terrorism. Asks the world to sanction Iran. Thanks the Saudi King for this great moment in history and for the investment in US industry.

Saudi King looks as if he'd like to behead someone, haha.

Donald wraps it up, finally. Have to give him credit, it was a long speech and he didn't seem to be reading it.

DogOnPorch · May 21, 2017

Basically putting these Saudi MF-ers on notice.

Omni · May 21, 2017

10 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Basically putting these Saudi MF-ers on notice.

The only "notice" he gave the MF-ers was when they could start rec'ing their billions worth of weaponry. At least his handlers seemed to have accomplished their task of keeping him to the script with his speech so as not to try thinking for himself and blowing the whole thing.

OftenWrong · May 21, 2017

20 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Watching Trump's speech in SA. He looks like he's falling asleep during the Saudi King's speech; he sounds like he's drugged during his speech. Congratulates everybody on the warm and long partnership between SA and the US. Talks about how wonderful America is, and about all the great things that have resulted since he took office. "We are not here to lecture. We are not here to tell people how to live, how to worship". "This summit is the beginning of the end for [terrorists] ... the beginning of peace for the middle east and all over the world". Admits that Muslims have suffered the most from terrorism. A tragedy of epic proportions.   Suggests people should flock to the Middle East and mentions briefly how great Islam is. Talks about how the potential of the Middle East is held back by violence and terror, which cannot be accepted or ignored. "Every time a terrorist kills an innocent person, it's an insult to their faith. Those people do not worship god, but death." Says that the Middle East cannot wait for America to crush their problems; they have to do it themselves. Their nations have to drive out extremists and terrorists; drive them out of nation, communities, holy places, their holy land. America will give up doing what doesn't work and will change their approach. Claims US is here for peace, but announces a billion-dollar deal for arms and promises to help SA get 'the best deal' for US arms, which are the best in the world.

Faces in the audience look unconvinced, comments on the side are not supportive.

Trump is proud to announce a new committee created to stop terrorists from using oil to fund themselves and announces Hezbollah a terrorist organization, and SA and US have sanctioned Hezbollah leadership. Claims profound effect on terrorists. Has trouble pronouncing ethnicity. Sounds like he's short of breath, and almost slurring words. Points to Iran as major/only supporter of terrorism. Asks the world to sanction Iran. Thanks the Saudi King for this great moment in history and for the investment in US industry.

Saudi King looks as if he'd like to behead someone, haha.

Donald wraps it up, finally. Have to give him credit, it was a long speech and he didn't seem to be reading it.

I saw it very differently. He was not falling asleep but quietly listening to the King. He sounded like he was drugged?? There's a reason for talking like that in a foreign country. He paused every 2-3 words to allow the translators to do their job for the audience.

Extremism is on the rise in the ME, and there are several reasons why that is. Since these groups are militarized, and have sworn to be our enemies to the end, there is no reaching out to them to cooperate in the name of peace. The problem cannot be ignored (reference to Obama/ Clinton). The organized militant radicals need to be driven out. He said what he had to say, in line with expected US foreign policy.

My view is that while this is entirely necessary, a military response is only addressing one dimension of the problem. The other is to deal with the Islamacist propaganda campaign that appeals to Muslim youth. Understand the basis for this appeal, and deal with it at that level. Likely that Isamacists take advantage of ignorance and poverty to promote their violent solution. I like that Trump pointed out that the majority of people being killed by Islamic terrorists were themselves Muslims.

Could Trump have said anything at all to make you approve of it?

Edited May 21, 2017 by OftenWrong
sticky keys...

DogOnPorch · May 21, 2017

1 minute ago, Omni said:

The only "notice" he gave the MF-ers was when they could start rec'ing their billions worth of weaponry. At least his handlers seemed to have accomplished their task of keeping him to the script with his speech so as not to try thinking for himself and blowing the whole thing.

You're free to support Saudi Arabia over the West. Me no care.

Omni · May 21, 2017

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

You're free to support Saudi Arabia over the West. Me no care.

Good to see you're on your same old script as well.

DogOnPorch · May 21, 2017

Just now, Omni said:

Good to see you're on your same old script as well.

Your Hillary was all about Saudi Arabia.

Omni · May 21, 2017

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

Your Hillary was all about Saudi Arabia.

If you say so.

DogOnPorch · May 21, 2017

Just now, Omni said:

If you say so.

Denying Hillary takes money from the Saudis. eh? Good for you.

Omni · May 21, 2017

6 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

You're free to support Saudi Arabia over the West. Me no care.

And apparently it's your Mr. Trump who is supporting Saudi. Or did you not pay attention to what actually went on during this visit? I didn't realize you were so taken with the birthplace of Islam

DogOnPorch · May 21, 2017

2 minutes ago, Omni said:

And apparently it's your Mr. Trump who is supporting Saudi. Or did you not pay attention to what actually went on during this visit? I didn't realize you were so taken with the birthplace of Islam

Saudi Arabia is the sh!t on Trump's shoe.

dialamah · May 21, 2017

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

I saw it very differently. He was not falling asleep but quietly listening to the King. He sounded like he as drugged?? There's a reason for talking like that in a foreign country. He paused every 2-3 words to allow the translators to do their job for the audience.

I won't say your interpretation is wrong, although it wasn't the slowness of the speech that made me think of someone drugged, but the lack of crispness. On the other hand, perhaps he always talks that way and I never noticed before. Fair?

Quote

Extremism is on the rise in the ME, and there are several reasons why that is. Since these groups are militarized, and have sworn to be our enemies to the end, there is no reaching out to them to cooperate in the name of peace. The problem cannot be ignored (reference to Obama/ Clinton). The organized militant radicals need to be driven out. He said what he had to say, in line with expected US foreign policy.

I agree that the only option for fighting terrorists in the region is military and that it is primarily up to the affected nations themselves to do so. Unfortunately, I also don't think it's going to work until, as Trump suggested, the people and nations themselves change some things about their own culture.

The other is to deal with the Islamacist propaganda campaign that appeals to Muslim youth. Understand the basis for this appeal, and deal with it at that level. Likely that Isamacists take advantage of ignorance and poverty to promote their violent solution.

I agree here also, although the lack of education and poverty doesn't apply to those who come from Western countries to fight on behalf of ISIS. How do we address that? At the moment, I don't think the response to this is quite firm enough.

Could Trump have said anything at all to make you approve of it?

It wasn't that I disagreed with everything the speech said, but that the hypocrisy just turns my stomach. Sanctioning Iran, while pretending that SA has had nothing to do with terrorism? Congratulating SA on the way in which they seek the best for their citizens while ignoring their blatant and horrific human rights abuses?

I kind of get why this happens, and no doubt JT would do something similar were he speaking in SA, but I certainly don't have to like it.

OftenWrong · May 21, 2017

The first important step towards shedding that youthful, idealistic view that good and evil are clearly demarcated in this world, is to understand that the world is full of evil people and places. History plays a big role. Taking a categorical stand against this can only lead to isolation and more extremism. One cannot choose pure goodness, only varying degrees and finally must settle on the lessor evil to succeed, both in the short and long term. It's unfortunate, but it's just the way it is.

Edited May 21, 2017 by OftenWrong
sticky fingers

dialamah · May 21, 2017

8 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

The first important step towards shedding that youthful, idealistic view that good and evil are clearly demarcated in this world, is to understand that the world is full of evil people and places. History plays a big role. Taking a categorical stand against this can only lead to isolation and more extremism. One cannot choose pure goodness, only varying degrees and finally must settle on the lessor evil to succeed, both in the short and long term. It's unfortunate, but it's just the way it is.

Which is probably why I don't automatically assume that all Muslims hate all Westerners, or Jews or Christians or that they're just waiting to turn into blood-thirsty killers of non-Muslims, gays, and immoral women.

Still, if one can't expect the best from the leaders of the world, what hope is there for any of us? How is Saudi the "lesser evil"? Why should Saudi get a pass on the evil they do, whilst Iran does not? I understand it's the Biblical truth found in 1 Timothy 6:10 "The love of money is the root of all evil", SA has more money to give the West than Iran does, so it's safe to disapprove of Iran. Evil continues to flourish in both countries, but only one is held to account. by those who profess a moral high ground Sad, isn't it?

Omni · May 21, 2017

17 minutes ago, dialamah said:

It wasn't that I disagreed with everything the speech said, but that the hypocrisy just turns my stomach. Sanctioning Iran, while pretending that SA has had nothing to do with terrorism?

That part especially had me shaking my head, rolling eyes. The stomach turning was especially enhanced by the fact that, even though I understand one must be diplomatic in such events. you knew that the speech that he blathered was absolutely miles above his punching weight. That's probably what was slowing him down so much. The Saudis are getting the hardware they need to keep their iron fist functioning, after that they probably couldn't give a damn about the speech.