Fort McMurray wildfire

[Smallc]

No, but adequate preparations should be made to prevent as much loss of life as possible and minimize the property damage when the earthquake does occur. This includes better tsunami warning systems and evacuation routes, better seismic codes, mandatory retrofitting of older buildings to meet modern seismic codes with very few if any exceptions, and region-wide earthquake preparedness drills. A magnitude 9 earthquake is not unsurvivable. There has been a lot of writing on this topic about reasonable preparations that could be made, but that are unfortunately not being made. There are other choices between evacuation and simply letting tens of thousands of people die and incurring a trillion dollars in economic damage.

"We're doing pretty well,'' said Sherstobitoff, who works for global engineering firm Ausenco. "We're doing reasonably well for a province that hasn't had a major, damaging earthquake in this generation.''

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/02/02/bc-earthquake-preparedness_n_9143570.html

[Big Guy]

Fort McMurray evolved from a population of 38,000 in 2001 to 62,000 in 2011 to about 80,000 to-day. I submit that because of the pressing need for additional housing, the conditions of building and locating developments compromised safety over accommodation. To allow the building of suburb developments that close to forest is a municipal decision especially in an area as remote as this one.

You reap what you sow.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Big Guy

[Derek 2.0]

For example, there are systems that can reliably give up to a 30-90 second warning of an impending earthquake, which are in use in Japan but not in the Cascadia fault zone. A 30-90 second warning would not give enough warning to reduce property damage but would certainly save thousands of lives as many people would have time to take cover, exit a building, or step away from objects that could be dangerous in an earthquake.

Funny you mention that, just the other day, the local news here (Vancouver Island) had a piece on a research group doing exactly that offshore .......They made the point, as did you, it might save many by giving forewarning, opening fire station doors, lowering elevators etc

One thing is for certain, the Pacific Northwest is screwed when the big one hits and will make Fort Mac look like peanuts.

[Smallc]

Fort McMurray evolved from a population of 38,000 in 2001 to 62,000 in 2011 to about 80,000 to-day. I submit that because of the pressing need for additional housing, the conditions of building and locating developments compromised safety over accommodation. To allow the building of suburb developments that close to forest is a municipal decision especially in an area as remote as this one.

Ummm, the entire area is near a forrest.

[Big Guy]

Ummm, the entire area is near a forrest.

I am not going to try to continue to argue and disagree with you. You may very well be better informed than I about the situation. I opine from my knowledge. We live in Norfolk County in Southern Ontario with 25% coverage of forest.

http://www.norfolkcounty.ca/living/parks-and-recreation/forestry/

When any developer applies for the right to re-zone for residential and begin to submit a major subdivision plan it is scrutinized by all staff from fire department to environmental as to the safety of the future occupants.

It is virtually impossible for any fair sized habitat in Norfolk to be consumed by a forest fire.

Cottages are a different story and the owners understand the conditions. Insurance policies reflect to safety of the environment.

I wonder how many homes in the Fort Mcmurray were not insured because they were un insurable against forest fire or the premiums were so high that they were un affordable.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Big Guy

[Smallc]

It is virtually impossible for any fair sized habitat in Norfolk to be consumed by a forest fire.

That's not at all a comparable situation, unless you're advocating for clear cutting for miles around.

[Big Guy]

You may be right. Thanks for the conversation.

[cybercoma]

I doubt you'd suggest that the Bush administration handled Katrina well...........do some critical thinking on why Bush screwed up then, and Trudeau is screwing the pooch now......

This is a stupid comparison, even for you.

[cybercoma]

Ummm, the entire area is near a forrest.

In fact the worst damaged neighbourhood, get this, bordered the woods.

[Derek 2.0]

This is a stupid comparison, even for you.

Why? The response to Katrina was found after to be bungled at numerous levels of Government.......This response to the Fort Mac fires, if it results in being the worse economic natural disaster in Canadian history especially, should be investigated and examined after the fact to address response methods that need improvement.....and if such investigation finds bungling at various levels of Canadian government, that too should be made public.....like was done with the Bush administration's (and State, county, city levels of Government) response to Katrina.

If this is how the Government responds to a massive forest fire, there are grounds for concern in how levels of government in Canada would respond to a large earthquake in the lower mainland of BC, or a nuclear reactor disaster or major terror attack etc.

[waldo]

The fire fighters didn't cut their own budget.

still waiting for you to state what impact the $10 million portion of that overall $15 million Alberta NDP cut had on the Ft. Mac wildfire. After I dispensed with your nonsense over that $5 million cut, you chose to deflect to the other $10 million cut. Yet somehow, you can't step-up to support your fake outrage, yes?

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[Bonam]

"We're doing pretty well,'' said Sherstobitoff, who works for global engineering firm Ausenco. "We're doing reasonably well for a province that hasn't had a major, damaging earthquake in this generation.''

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/02/02/bc-earthquake-preparedness_n_9143570.html

Hah! Doing pretty well? You have millions of people obliviously going about their lives while sitting on top of a ticking time bomb. The next Cascadia megaquake is probably gonna be the biggest natural disaster in the history of North America both in terms of lives lost and economic damage. And we haven't even bothered to install the cheap sensors and warning systems so that people can have the precious seconds they need to get out of danger.

[waldo]

And you would be wrong (and I actually checked several hotels that I've stayed at before well in transit), there are thousands of free beds in greater Edmonton, especially near the airport, where there are literally miles of no frills mega hotels, that catered to O&G workers in transit North.....now near empty with the downturn in oil.

a complete non-starter! I'm catching up on this thread by quickly scanning over the many pages since I left it... you're consistent in your blathering nonsense over hotel/motel accommodation and wholly disingenuous attempt to draw comparison to refugee settlements. Somehow in your uber-partisan logistics, 30-50 thousand evacuees would somehow have magic coordination that over the span of literally days, would find hotels, right-sized rooms, deal with contracts, payments, insurance, etc. ... and then have what... a room? A room with no support attached to it? I read that Edmonton complex has had chefs/cooks create almost 40,000 meals thus far... that evacuees can find clothing there, meet their insurance company reps there, get medical attention, receive counseling, etc.. Meanwhile, you sit at your keyboard, whining and complaining about things you can't even substantiate. About the only thing you've been able to do is point fingers at the Alberta NDP and Trudeau Liberal governments; yet somehow you can't quite itemize just where you believe those 2 levels of government have failed at, have mismanaged - of course you can't.

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[-1=e^ipi]

As for the people proclaiming that experts are telling us not to accept foreign help (which they aren't), even if they were, experts also thought Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. Experts said we should fund islamists in Syria. Experts are often wrong.

[cybercoma]

Why? The response to Katrina was found after to be bungled at numerous levels of Government.......This response to the Fort Mac fires, if it results in being the worse economic natural disaster in Canadian history especially, should be investigated and examined after the fact to address response methods that need improvement.....and if such investigation finds bungling at various levels of Canadian government, that too should be made public.....like was done with the Bush administration's (and State, county, city levels of Government) response to Katrina.

If this is how the Government responds to a massive forest fire, there are grounds for concern in how levels of government in Canada would respond to a large earthquake in the lower mainland of BC, or a nuclear reactor disaster or major terror attack etc.

You are absolutely suffering from Trudeau Derangement Syndrome if you think there's a problem with the response. How insulting to the crews that have been fighting this blaze that you would compare their response to Katrina.

[cybercoma]

As for the people proclaiming that experts are telling us not to accept foreign help (which they aren't), even if they were, experts also thought Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. Experts said we should fund islamists in Syria. Experts are often wrong.

So your suggestion is for Trudeau to ignore the people coordinating the efforts to fight entire and just send more help anyway, despite e fact that it would be dangerous to have more air traffic and the fire is moving so quickly that you can't put people in front of it? Screw what the response team says, it's more important to look good politically?

[Boges]

So last week the theory was that the town was lost and now we hear that 90% of the buildings are fine?

Sensational media much?

[BubberMiley]

Uh...losing the city was a very real risk last week. That's the problem with making a super-human effort to fix something. When you're successful, the people behind their screens complain that there was no risk all along.

[Accountability Now]

Rona Ambrose doesn't cause near the disturbance that Justin Trudeau does. Besides, he has a job in Ottawa. He's visiting at about the perfect time in terms of logistics and safety.

Does she not have a job in Ottawa?

You keep spinning your wheels trying to back out of your bogus claim but no matter how you spin it, there is NO issue with logistics or safety if he were to only visit the evacuee centres. None. But keep trying.....

[Spiderfish]

I consider people not dying in burning cars and trucks on the highway to be luck......

They didn't - because the evacuation happened in an orderly and organized fashion...and with just enough warning.

Really?? Have you seen any of the video footage of the "evacuation"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLBUK2NDmSs

I suggest jumping from a burning bus and running for one's life may be the result of insufficient warning and is certainly far from orderly and organized. Luck played a major role in everyone escaping with their lives.

Edited May 11, 2016 by Spiderfish

[jacee]

Really?? Have you seen any of the video footage of the "evacuation"?

I suggest jumping from a burning bus and running for one's life may be the result of insufficient warning and is certainly far from orderly and organized. Luck played a major role in everyone escaping with their lives.

I'm not sure there could have been warning - nobody expected the fire to jump the river. Unexpected tragedies happen all the time.

I agree a lot of luck was involved ... and a LOT of spunk!

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Edited May 11, 2016 by jacee

[Smallc]

Really?? Have you seen any of the video footage of the "evacuation"?

I suggest jumping from a burning bus and running for one's life may be the result of insufficient warning and is certainly far from orderly and organized. Luck played a major role in everyone escaping with their lives.

The situation was very desperate and dangerous. That everyone lived in the face of that is far more than luck.

[Smallc]

Does she not have a job in Ottawa?

You keep spinning your wheels trying to back out of your bogus claim but no matter how you spin it, there is NO issue with logistics or safety if he were to only visit the evacuee centres. None. But keep trying.....

There is a huge difference between the two. Ambrose, btw, probably was in the way.

[Accountability Now]

There is a huge difference between the two. Ambrose, btw, probably was in the way.

If helping people is 'in the way' then yes you are right. In that same tense, Trudeau was NOT in the way.

[waldo]

There is a huge difference between the two. Ambrose, btw, probably was in the way.

and the same anti-Trudeau bunch here complaining about... an absent Trudeau (in spite of his personal statements of support, in spite of his repeated references to not wanting to go there now... and be a distraction), somehow all these anti-Trudeau types really, really wanted him there! Of course, they're the same types who come out and whine and complain about photo-ops and "selfie-ops"... like Trudeau meeting with refugees. Hypocrites!

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