Are Sexy Restaurant Outfits a Human Rights Issue?

[kimmy]

I am picturing some guy, driving his Saturn home after a crappy day pushing paper at the office... and he decides that just for a change, he wants to stop off at the restaurant that has the sexy waitresses. For just an hour of his life, he wants to feel like a big deal. For just an hour of his life he wants to feel like he's James Bond or Don Draper or something like that.

He sits down at the bar, and the sexy bartender mixes him one of the fancy drinks he only ever orders when he comes to places like this. Then the sexy hostess comes over and tells him his table is ready, so he follows her there, and she tells him his server will be with him shortly.

And as he's sipping his Manhattan, this two-hundred pound girl wearing wide slacks and a tent-like satin blouse waddles over and asks him if he'd like a menu. He orders the cheapest thing on the menu... probably an overpriced basket of yam fries. He finishes his Manhattan, half of his yam fries, and leaves.

Does he come back to that restaurant again?

Never. Not even once. Because instead of an escape from the mediocrity of his life, his night out was a symbolic metaphor for it. His night out was as disappointing as his job and his car. In a restaurant full of beautiful waitresses, he gets Diversity Hire Donna. Perhaps he'll visit the competing restaurant next time. Or perhaps he'll just go home with the painful realization that he's destined to fail no matter what he does. Whichever the case, this restaurant won't be seeing him again.

-k

[Bonam]

Does he come back to that restaurant again?

Never. Not even once. Because instead of an escape from the mediocrity of his life, his night out was a symbolic metaphor for it. His night out was as disappointing as his job and his car. In a restaurant full of beautiful waitresses, he gets Diversity Hire Donna. Perhaps he'll visit the competing restaurant next time. Or perhaps he'll just go home with the painful realization that he's destined to fail no matter what he does. Whichever the case, this restaurant won't be seeing him again.

Sounds like a win for human rights. He should have known that women aren't there for his enjoyment/entertainment but are real people with real feelings, etc etc. He is a loser for having a mediocre life and should just toughen up and take it like a man, etc etc.

[WestCoastRunner]

I am picturing some guy, driving his Saturn home after a crappy day pushing paper at the office... and he decides that just for a change, he wants to stop off at the restaurant that has the sexy waitresses. For just an hour of his life, he wants to feel like a big deal. For just an hour of his life he wants to feel like he's James Bond or Don Draper or something like that.

He sits down at the bar, and the sexy bartender mixes him one of the fancy drinks he only ever orders when he comes to places like this. Then the sexy hostess comes over and tells him his table is ready, so he follows her there, and she tells him his server will be with him shortly.

And as he's sipping his Manhattan, this two-hundred pound girl wearing wide slacks and a tent-like satin blouse waddles over and asks him if he'd like a menu. He orders the cheapest thing on the menu... probably an overpriced basket of yam fries. He finishes his Manhattan, half of his yam fries, and leaves.

Does he come back to that restaurant again?

Never. Not even once. Because instead of an escape from the mediocrity of his life, his night out was a symbolic metaphor for it. His night out was as disappointing as his job and his car. In a restaurant full of beautiful waitresses, he gets Diversity Hire Donna. Perhaps he'll visit the competing restaurant next time. Or perhaps he'll just go home with the painful realization that he's destined to fail no matter what he does. Whichever the case, this restaurant won't be seeing him again.

-k

Yea. Tits for tips. We are a progressive society for our young women.

[Hal 9000]

Sounds like a win for human rights. He should have known that women aren't there for his enjoyment/entertainment but are real people with real feelings, etc etc. He is a loser for having a mediocre life and should just toughen up and take it like a man, etc etc.

Whatever morality you think this guy should adhere to is exactly the point of kimmys post. I think she explains the escapism perfectly, albeit a little hyperbolic but clearly done to establish a point that a lot people will miss.

Women have their escapism, men have theirs.

[kimmy]

Bonam got what I was saying, his response about it being a "win", about the guy needing to toughen up, etc, was sarcasm.

I feel like the guy should be able to enjoy the experience he was envisioning when he walked into the restaurant.

I feel like the restaurant should be able to offer him the experience he was envisioning when he walked into the restaurant.

I feel like Donna should go work at a Pizza Hut or an IHOP and stop ruining it for everybody.

-k

[Big Guy]

People are far too obsessed about sex. There are better things in life. Once a year, my bride and the rest of the ladies in their weekly Bridge card club, organize a trip for themselves as a reward. They usually do the big city craft shows, the odd musical and major antique shows. Last year they went to the big city to view some antique show called the Chippendales.

Meanwhile we husbands got together at home for a manly discussion and a couple of drinks to solve the world problems. We were all surprised but proud that the ladies were classy enough to enjoy looking at 18th-century English style of furniture characterized by flowing lines and often rococo ornamentation. They appeared very happy on return that late evening and appeared uncharacteristically ready to go to bed.

I had no idea that old furniture could be that interesting.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Big Guy

[Bonam]

Bonam got what I was saying, his response about it being a "win", about the guy needing to toughen up, etc, was sarcasm.

Thanks kimmy. At least someone around here can see obvious sarcasm when it stares them in the face

[Boges]

Yea. Tits for tips. We are a progressive society for our young women.

Or Abs for tips.

[Bob Macadoo]

Bonam got what I was saying, his response about it being a "win", about the guy needing to toughen up, etc, was sarcasm.

I feel like the guy should be able to enjoy the experience he was envisioning when he walked into the restaurant.

I feel like the restaurant should be able to offer him the experience he was envisioning when he walked into the restaurant.

I feel like Donna should go work at a Pizza Hut or an IHOP and stop ruining it for everybody.

-k

Then I'm ready to have my taxes done by a lass with tassels on......I need to escape from dealing with the CRA.......as I'm sure most Cdns are.

[kimmy]

Then I'm ready to have my taxes done by a lass with tassels on......I need to escape from dealing with the CRA.......as I'm sure most Cdns are.

If you can find an accountant willing to provide that service, Bob, then I say go for it.

-k

[Argus]

Yea. Tits for tips. We are a progressive society for our young women.

Women have been using their looks and bodies to get things from men since genders were invented. That goes for progressive women, too. I bet there are sexy waitresses in short dresses in Oslo and Stockholm too.

[Boges]

Women have been using their looks and bodies to get things from men since genders were invented. That goes for progressive women, too. I bet there are sexy waitresses in short dresses in Oslo and Stockholm too.

Woman can only use sex to their advantage if she isn't being told too. AND women can't be told not to use sex to their advantage. That's equally as sexist!

[cybercoma]

Is women's autonomy really that tough to get your head around?

I'll help you. Imagine for a second that they're men. Maybe then women making their own decision will make more sense to you.

[Boges]

Is women's autonomy really that tough to get your head around?

I'll help you. Imagine for a second that they're men. Maybe then women making their own decision will make more sense to you.

The tinge of sarcasm as only there because it appears members like WCR would reject any sexualization of woman. I'd argue my post is completely accurate.

Then again you kind of lose some autonomy if you rely on someone else for a pay cheque. Unless you quit.

[Bob Macadoo]

The tinge of sarcasm as only there because it appears members like WCR would reject any sexualization of woman. I'd argue my post is completely accurate.

Then again you kind of lose some autonomy if you rely on someone else for a pay cheque. Unless you quit.

Actually WCR advocates for sexualization......only in their own choice of projection and not induced by any external influence. I actually listen to sides of arguments.

[cybercoma]

Then again you kind of lose some autonomy if you rely on someone else for a pay cheque. Unless you quit.

Youre right, but this is at its core a discussion of what's "reasonable." If we took this to the Nth degree and I asked, "is it okay for a lawyer to insist that his paralegal work in the nude, so he can 'appreciate' her body," I want to believe that most people would find that appalling and say of course it's not okay. So we have people here who believe it's reasonable for a restauranteur to ask waitresses to show their cleavage and thighs. Others are arguing that this is not a reasonable demand in that profession, unless it's a restaurant like Hooters or a strip club where that's obviously a requirement.

[Bob Macadoo]

If you can find an accountant willing to provide that service, Bob, then I say go for it.

-k

That's an easy position to have since you know it would never exist. Those individuals have easy redress to that situation as its acceptable to patriachal society for a person serving t-bones to show her rack but T-4s would be taboo.

[Bob Macadoo]

On another note.....these free marketers believe it will solve all. Why not let her serve in her nun's habit next to those who choose cleavage believing they are serving an "experience" rather than food. By market indications the nun will move onto greener pastures within the week with the crumbs she'll make next to her high rolling colleagues with their fat wads.

[msj]

That's an easy position to have since you know it would never exist. Those individuals have easy redress to that situation as its acceptable to patriachal society for a person serving t-bones to show her rack but T-4s would be taboo.

Show us the law where I could not open up a sexy bookkeepers shop.

I'm sure the CPA rules would not allow for a raunchy dress code but that's because the members set the rules which is different from government disallowing it or making it illegal.

[dialamah]

I feel like the guy should be able to enjoy the experience he was envisioning when he walked into the restaurant.

I feel like the restaurant should be able to offer him the experience he was envisioning when he walked into the restaurant.

Maybe men should learn to feel like men without the crutch of a young, nubile, semi-dressed female. Men are not entitled to use a woman's body to bolster their self-esteem, to make up for acrappy car, a bad day or a bad life.

It's not that I don't understand the "business case" you are presenting, or that I doubt the restaurants believe they are providing a service in the way you suggest. But in my view this attitude is demeaning to both men and women. It assumes that men require a woman fauning over him to be happy or complete, or like some fictional movie character. It also assumes that it is a woman's responsibility to provide that for him, ensuring her body is "acceptable". As far as I'm concerned, you have made the best argument for imposing limits on companies that use women's bodies to pander to men's egos or their fantasies - even for such a benign activity as dinner.

[Hal 9000]

On another note.....these free marketers believe it will solve all. Why not let her serve in her nun's habit next to those who choose cleavage believing they are serving an "experience" rather than food. By market indications the nun will move onto greener pastures within the week with the crumbs she'll make next to her high rolling colleagues with their fat wads.

Am I the only one who thinks that waitresses dressed as nuns sounds kinda hot?

[kimmy]

That's an easy position to have since you know it would never exist. Those individuals have easy redress to that situation as its acceptable to patriachal society for a person serving t-bones to show her rack but T-4s would be taboo.

Gee, it's almost as if different professions have different expectations. Who would have guessed?

Perhaps people choose their accountant based on the assumption of professionalism, and the idea that an accountant would attempt to attract business by wearing tassels at work is somewhat at odds with the image of professionalism.

On another note.....these free marketers believe it will solve all. Why not let her serve in her nun's habit next to those who choose cleavage believing they are serving an "experience" rather than food. By market indications the nun will move onto greener pastures within the week with the crumbs she'll make next to her high rolling colleagues with their fat wads.

The free market has already spoken. BC Chick explained it here:

The issue is that that are 4 types of restaurants. Fast food, casual, casual upscale and high end. Casual upscale is the highest earning which doesn't require vocational training or experience and the women who work in these high paying jobs shouldn't be *expected* to dress provocatively to serve food.

The only reason our hypothetical frumpy waitress wants to work at a casual upscale place instead of a family place is that she knows the waitresses there make a lot more money. If she wants to work in a higher paying environment then she should go the extra mile in terms of her personal appearance, just like the other waitresses there. If she's not comfortable with that, she should stay at Denny's.

If I run a "casual upscale" place, why wouldn't I just let the waitresses wear what they like and let the ones who don't get enough tips quit of their own accord? Because my customers are too polite. First off, they're going to leave at least 15% tip even if they weren't happy with their experience, because that's just what kind of guys they are. They're not going to tell me that they were unhappy to be assigned a frumpy slob while other tables were served by attractively dressed women. They're not going to ask for a different waitress. What they'll do instead is take their business elsewhere next time. So the waitress who doesn't care about her personal appearance isn't the one who suffers... the whole business suffers on her behalf, including the other waitresses.

If she wants to dress modestly, that's her choice, and she can exercise her choice by working at one of the many restaurants that have modest uniforms or modest dress codes for the staff.

-k

[kimmy]

Maybe men should learn to feel like men without the crutch of a young, nubile, semi-dressed female. Men are not entitled to use a woman's body to bolster their self-esteem, to make up for a crappy car, a bad day or a bad life.

First off, he is not "using a woman's body". He is enjoying her attention. And I think almost everybody likes to enjoy the attention of someone, especially an attractive someone.

And no, he's not entitled. But if someone is willing to provide that service, why shouldn't she be allowed to do that? And why shouldn't he be able to accept?

I don't think anything unsavory is going on. There are a whole lot worse things he could be doing to boost his beleaguered self-esteem. A man having a drink and enjoying the attention of a fully clothed woman is not something that the Upright Citizens Brigade needs to get their knickers in a knot over, in my opinion.

It's not that I don't understand the "business case" you are presenting, or that I doubt the restaurants believe they are providing a service in the way you suggest. But in my view this attitude is demeaning to both men and women. It assumes that men require a woman fauning over him to be happy or complete, or like some fictional movie character. It also assumes that it is a woman's responsibility to provide that for him, ensuring her body is "acceptable".

I don't propose that he requires a woman to fawn over him... merely that he enjoys it. Why wouldn't he? Everybody likes to feel like a big deal sometimes. Everybody likes to feel special sometimes. The idea that it's only acceptable if it's done in an asexual way that doesn't offend a crabby woman with a flat-top haircut at the OHRC bunker in Toronto is quite annoying to me.

As far as I'm concerned, you have made the best argument for imposing limits on companies that use women's bodies to pander to men's egos or their fantasies - even for such a benign activity as dinner.

And as far as I'm concerned, if the waitress is happy with her job and the customer is happy to spend his money, then there's absolutely justification for the government to interfere.

-k

[Guest]

Am I the only one who thinks that waitresses dressed as nuns sounds kinda hot?

Kinda scary. You obviously didn't grow up a Catholic. At least the patrons would eat all their vegetables...

[WestCoastRunner]

I am picturing some guy, driving his Saturn home after a crappy day pushing paper at the office... and he decides that just for a change, he wants to stop off at the restaurant that has the sexy waitresses. For just an hour of his life, he wants to feel like a big deal. For just an hour of his life he wants to feel like he's James Bond or Don Draper or something like that.

He sits down at the bar, and the sexy bartender mixes him one of the fancy drinks he only ever orders when he comes to places like this. Then the sexy hostess comes over and tells him his table is ready, so he follows her there, and she tells him his server will be with him shortly.

-k

Are you sure you're not talking about a brothel instead of a restaurant? This is quite the spin.