Still Going to Buy the F-35, Really?

bush_cheney2004 · June 13, 2016

I love how you have no problem arguing the exact opposite point that you did last time we had this same conversation.

I love how you have an unshakable faith in the United States Navy. Maybe the Russians should buy Super Hornets too.

DogOnPorch · June 13, 2016

For sure - but the Russians could absolutely trounce us today. The same will be true no matter which platform we choose to buy.

Canada's role in NATO was as the USA's shield against Tu-95s and Mya-4s with free fall H-Bombs. This is not the mission these days. What Canada needs for this part of the 21st century is helicopters and dedicated ground attack machines that will support our troops in low-level bush wars.

I suggested the Super Tucano...as that's its role...but was poo-poohed by the typical can't do attitude Canadians have.

Smallc · June 13, 2016

Canada's role in NATO was as the USA's shield against Tu-95s and Mya-4s with free fall H-Bombs. This is not the mission these days. What Canada needs for this part of the 21st century is helicopters and dedicated ground attack machines that will support our troops in low-level bush wars.

I want Canada having nothing to do with most of that.

bush_cheney2004 · June 13, 2016

I want Canada having nothing to do with most of that.

But keeping defense contracts and jobs that support most of that is OK, right ?

DogOnPorch · June 13, 2016

I want Canada having nothing to do with most of that.

Not gonna happen. As much as we'd like to think armies aren't needed, try playing good ol' Civilization w/o one.

Edited June 13, 2016 by DogOnPorch

Smallc · June 13, 2016

But keeping defense contracts and jobs that support most of that is OK, right ?

I don't really care about the missions themselves - it's just politically untenable. It's also of questionable value in many situations.

Smallc · June 13, 2016

Not gonna happen. As much as we'd like to think armies aren't needed,

Most of the world's problems really don't concern us, and shouldn't.

DogOnPorch · June 13, 2016

Most of the world's problems really don't concern us, and shouldn't.

Isolationism is as dangerous as military adventurism.

bush_cheney2004 · June 13, 2016

I don't really care about the missions themselves - it's just politically untenable. It's also of questionable value in many situations.

I will take that as a big "YES!" for contracts and jobs...we know that Trudeau and Wynne sure do.

Smallc · June 13, 2016

Isolationism is as dangerous as military adventurism.

There's a middle ground we can walk. I'm fine with naval patrols and training missions because that's what the Canadian public wants.

Smallc · June 13, 2016

I will take that as a big "YES!" for contracts and jobs...we know that Trudeau and Wynne sure do.

Of course it's a yes.

DogOnPorch · June 13, 2016

There's a middle ground we can walk. I'm fine with naval patrols and training missions because that's what the Canadian public wants.

The word 'enemy' is viewed with the same incredulity as many other things, it seems. Canada can't possibly have enemies. We're nice and say sorry a lot.

bush_cheney2004 · June 13, 2016

The word 'enemy' is viewed with the same incredulity as many other things, it seems. Canada can't possibly have enemies. We're nice and say sorry a lot.

Indeed...."so sorry Serbia, very sorry we dropped bombs on you". "Sorry Libya...Sorry Iraq....Sorry Syria too".

DogOnPorch · June 13, 2016

Indeed...."so sorry Serbia, very sorry we dropped bombs on you". "Sorry Libya...Sorry Iraq....Sorry Syria too".

Canada has a fine history of bombing folks in their beds let alone going after soldiers in trenches and bunkers...etc. Bombs away!

bush_cheney2004 · June 13, 2016

Canada has a fine history of bombing folks in their beds let alone going after soldiers in trenches and bunkers...etc. Bombs away!

It's those "Damn Americans" that made Canada do it...and the British before that. Curse them !

DogOnPorch · June 13, 2016

It's those "Damn Americans" that made Canada do it...and the British before that. Curse them !

Not many left at all...but the Halifax was pretty much the equivalent to the Lancaster...big payload...no armor to speak of other than self sealing tanks. We came at night...

?Impact · June 13, 2016

All the meetings with Boeing and Trudeau stating openly that we wouldn't buy the F-35 has nothing to do with the discussion, huh?

All the meetings?

You mean:

February 16 - Cyrus Reporter, Senior Advisor PMO

March 8 - Stephen Fuhr, MP, Chair Standing committee on National Defence

April 6 - Cyrus Reporter, Senior Advisor PMO

April 18 - Patrick Travers, Policy Advisor PMO

- Christina Rettig, Senior Policy Advisor PMO

Excuse me while I giggle at the absurdity of a sole source contract being negotiated by 3 underlings in the PMO and one MP over the course of 4 meetings for a multi-billion dollar project. I guess if all you ever sold was pencil erasers, then that might be in the world of plausibility for you but for the real world that just doesn't happen.

I doubt the Super Hornet was much more than a sidebar, if it was even mentioned. More than likely the main topic of conversation was the upgrade to the CF-18s, you know the one that Harper promised but never delivered on. Perhaps they also talked about the C-17s that Harper sole sourced, and how they were working out.

?Impact · June 13, 2016

I suggested the Super Tucano...as that's its role...but was poo-poohed by the typical can't do attitude Canadians have.

Certainly a far cheaper solution to operate, but what about shoulder fired missiles like the Strela-3?

Edited June 13, 2016 by ?Impact

Army Guy · June 13, 2016

I want Canada having nothing to do with most of that.

That is an opinion shared by most Canadians, unfortunately it is not shared by our political masters who continually put its forces and it's citizens into situations not suited for their vision of what our military should look like....becomes a matter of dollars and cents, cheaper to bury our soldiers than to buy them equipment they need.

Argus · June 14, 2016

you did? Then I'm shocked you let the statement from MLW member 'overthere' concerning Arctic sovereignty stand without offering your like perspective on Harper Conservatives doing diddly squat on the file! Shocked. Am I rubbin' ya the wrong way... is that why you're lashing out with the insults?

.

You called me a partisan hack the other day. Forgotten already? I'm simply pointing out that the definition of a partison hack doesn't fit me... but you on the other hand, have never criticized the Liberals, and defend everything they do, no matter what.

As for the other, I don't answer every post on every topic. Harper talked a big game but did little or nothing. At least he didn't actually set out to curtail our abilities, though.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Argus

Big Guy · June 14, 2016

Canada is going to do with airplanes like it did with ships - buy them off the shelf.

We will not get serious until the FA- XX is available in 15 years.

Argus · June 14, 2016

I'd like to be privy to those meetings/discussion... stating that openly. Do you have transcripts?

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We will not buy the F-35 stealth fighter-bomber.

We will immediately launch an open and transparent competition to replace the CF-18 fighter aircraft. The primary mission of our fighter aircraft should remain the defence of North America, not stealth first-strike capability. We will reduce the procurement budget for replacing the CF-18s, and will instead purchase one of the many, lower-priced options that better match Canada’s defence needs.

https://www.liberal.ca/realchange/f-35/

Seems pretty clear. Canada won't buy the same airplane as our allies, but will search for one much, much cheaper. Apparently there are many options available.