Still Going to Buy the F-35, Really?

[rotary]

Diefenbaker was a prime minister...just like Trudeau....who will screw up procurements again same as the others.

This is something that Canada has never really done well. But that's OK....big brother is always there.

Hey, speaking of screwed up procurement's, big brother needs you to get that wallet out and piss away more taxes. Big brother has so much control down there. We'll go shopping, but thanks for playing.

[bush_cheney2004]

Hey, speaking of screwed up procurement's, big brother needs you to get that wallet out and piss away more taxes. Big brother has so much control down there. We'll go shopping, but thanks for playing.

Agreed...the shopping in Canada has always been far worse...for everything. Canadian jobs from the F-35 program are far more reliable.

[rotary]

Agreed...the shopping in Canada has always been far worse...for everything. Canadian jobs from the F-35 program are far more reliable.

And we may well get more jobs from the new supplier. See how that works?

[bush_cheney2004]

And we may well get more jobs from the new supplier. See how that works?

That's good...you guys need it badly....the Canadian economy is in bad shape lately with Liberals back.

No F-35s or anything else for quite a while I would guess.

[rotary]

That's good...you guys need it badly....the Canadian economy is in bad shape lately with Liberals back.

No F-35s or anything else for quite a while I would guess.

That's funny. You think the economy is bad because of the new government which is less than 6 months in office. Ah but the infatuation with Canada continues to be "interesting" in a way.

[bush_cheney2004]

That's funny. You think the economy is bad because of the new government which is less than 6 months in office.

Six months or six years...it doesn't really matter.

The natural ruling party of Canada will be certain to keep Canadian Forces in obsolete hardware...they always do. No pipelines...and no F-35s either. Sunny ways....

[rotary]

Six months or six years...it doesn't really matter.

The natural ruling party of Canada will be certain to keep Canadian Forces in obsolete hardware...they always do. No pipelines...and no F-35s either. Sunny ways....

Who cancelled the XL? Wait for it, energy east coming to a sensible approach to resource marketing soon.

[bush_cheney2004]

Who cancelled the XL? Wait for it, energy east coming to a sensible approach to resource marketing soon.

Will have to wait, because like the F-35, it is not going to happen for Canada. Too hard....always too hard.

[rotary]

Will have to wait, because like the F-35, it is not going to happen for Canada. Too hard....always too hard.

You just fasten your seatbelt and sit back and watch. The F 35 won't, the energy east will. We win both ways.

[bush_cheney2004]

You just fasten your seatbelt and sit back and watch. The F 35 won't, the energy east will. We win both ways.

Canada will have the best stealth fighters and pipelines.....that being none at all.

[rotary]

Canada will have the best stealth fighters and pipelines.....that being none at all.

We will. Don't really need stealth fighters, but pipelines that support our own refinery industry we do approve of. Better luck next time.

[Argus]

Political interference has little to do with the broken and cumbersome process developed for defence procurement. I have faith that it will change now, given that the person in charge is intimately aware of the problem.

And how has young Mr. Trudeau demonstrated his intimate awareness of the problem?

Procurement's political interference is legendary. The military is not permitted to simply decide what system they need and then buy it. Instead they must engage in a long and complicated procurement process in which various entities compete largely by demonstrating what economic benefits government ridings will get from choosing them, spreading the work out across the country in a grossly inefficient and expensive way so as to ensure many government MPs and preferably cabinet members, see some benefit to their constituency. Along with this comes the need to placate important regions, by, for example, moving things from Winnipeg, which isn't all that important, to Quebec, which is, or making sure a contract for new trucks went to BC, even if they failed every test and the government had to close the testing base to get them cleared.

[Argus]

If Diefenbaker hadn't have screwed up your aerospace would be still in it's infancy. But we came down there and saved yall.

That is one of the dumbest statements I've ever seen. The US has had an incredibly robust aerospace industry for almost a century.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Argus

[Smallc]

I was actually takin about Minister Sajjan.

[Wilber]

That is one of the dumbest statements I've ever seen. The US has had an incredibly robust aerospace industry for almost a century.

That's the beauty of the Arrow legend. Because it was never completed, people can make it into whatever they want.

[Army Guy]

I have to tell you I like Mr Sajjan , what he stands for and his understanding of the military....But he is limited to what changes he can make, and he is being directed by higher authority....

I have lost all faith in our governments ability to fix DND's problems, that includes both the Cons and the Liberals....It was one of the driving factors for me to release from the forces....I had grown tired of trying to make things work on a shoe string budget, with little to no resources....Don't get me wrong DND is full of some of the best people I know....and I respect them for the job they do, just got tired of being promised the moon and getting horse shit in return....and i'm not the only one.....

[WestCanMan]

And how has young Mr. Trudeau demonstrated his intimate awareness of the problem?

Procurement's political interference is legendary. The military is not permitted to simply decide what system they need and then buy it. Instead they must engage in a long and complicated procurement process in which various entities compete largely by demonstrating what economic benefits government ridings will get from choosing them, spreading the work out across the country in a grossly inefficient and expensive way so as to ensure many government MPs and preferably cabinet members, see some benefit to their constituency. Along with this comes the need to placate important regions, by, for example, moving things from Winnipeg, which isn't all that important, to Quebec, which is, or making sure a contract for new trucks went to BC, even if they failed every test and the government had to close the testing base to get them cleared.

So much truth and accuracy in that statement. Any newbie to democracy would be right up to speed with the way govt's work after reading that paragraph.

[dre]

So much truth and accuracy in that statement. Any newbie to democracy would be right up to speed with the way govt's work after reading that paragraph.

An equally big problem is just trying to get the defense industry to actually make products you can buy. When it takes 15 or 20 years for them to just get to the point where they can deliver a functional product there's a lot of time for plans to change or fall apart.

Even if our procurement process was perfect we would still probably be a decade away from having any planes.

[rotary]

That is one of the dumbest statements I've ever seen. The US has had an incredibly robust aerospace industry for almost a century.

Who do you suppose was hoping to purchase the 105 to fulfill their role in NORAD? And where do you think many of those Avro engineers went after Diefenbaker killed their jobs and out aerospace industry at the time? Hint, try reading "Aroows to the Moon". Sometimes a little research prevents dumb statements.

[Argus]

Who do you suppose was hoping to purchase the 105 to fulfill their role in NORAD? And where do you think many of those Avro engineers went after Diefenbaker killed their jobs and out aerospace industry at the time? Hint, try reading "Aroows to the Moon". Sometimes a little research prevents dumb statements.

A hell of a lot more German aerospace engineers went to the US after the war than Canadians did after Avro was scrapped. The US had produced hundreds of thousands of aircraft during and after WW2 and on through Korea and the cold war. To suggest it was 'in its infancy' until Canadian engineers came along is preposterous.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Argus

[bush_cheney2004]

The U.S. already had so called Century Series fighter interceptors in full production before the Avro Arrow prototypes ever flew....and they were cheaper to build. Canada deployed CF-101 Voodoos well into the 1980's.

The U.S. also assisted in Avro Arrow development by providing:

• Wind tunnel testing at Langley
• P+W engines (Iroquois engine wasn't ready)
• B-47 engine test bed (returned damaged to the USAF)
• Nike rockets for high speed shape testing
• Missile and fire control.

Canada lost the ability to design, develop, and produce high performance military aircraft decades ago. Partnering in the F-35 JSF program at least maintains some capacity to manufacture sub-system parts in its struggling aerospace industry.

[bush_cheney2004]

Looks like it is official now....Canada's inept and dysfunctional defence procurement process is loudly proclaimed in state media:

"Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss," sang The Who in their 1971 classic, Won't Get Fooled Again.

Sadly, though, for geezers who recall that brave song from 45 years ago, The Who were wrong. We always get fooled again.

So meet the new defence budget. Same as the old defence budget.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/federal-budget-defence-milewski-1.3506670

Buying F-35 strike fighters (or anything else) isn't an issue anymore. Problem solved.

[rotary]

Looks like it is official now....Canada's inept and dysfunctional defence procurement process is loudly proclaimed in state media:

"Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss," sang The Who in their 1971 classic, Won't Get Fooled Again.

Sadly, though, for geezers who recall that brave song from 45 years ago, The Who were wrong. We always get fooled again.

So meet the new defence budget. Same as the old defence budget.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/federal-budget-defence-milewski-1.3506670

Buying F-35 strike fighters (or anything else) isn't an issue anymore. Problem solved.

Watch out or we may hang some new stoves and install a glass cockpit on an Arrow and kick your F 35 ass.

[bush_cheney2004]

Watch out or we may hang some new stoves and install a glass cockpit on an Arrow and kick your F 35 ass.

Good idea...Canada can make BVR target drones for paying F-35 international customers. Even Diefenbaker shot them down.

[rotary]

Good idea...Canada can make BVR target drones for paying F-35 international customers. Even Diefenbaker shot them down.

The only thing Diefenbaker ever shot down was his reputation. Well, beside the most advanced fighter in the world at the time. Conservatives do seem to be easily duped.