waldo Posted March 25, 2016 Report Posted March 25, 2016 All new aircraft have expensive teething problems. You know this. And the costs are still half what they are for the Osprey. It also costs less than the B52, B1 or F22. It has also come down quite a bit of late and will continue to come down as parts and supplies chains are established. "teething problems"... how quaint! Are you under some illusion that the "Osprey, B52, B1 or F22" have any bearing in relation to discussing the F-35 and alternate choices to replace the existing CF-18s? Before you start talking up supply-chain logistics, best wait on a final F-35 production stage and recognize the timeline and costs to retrofit all previous jets to that final state... notwithstanding the final capabilities (or lack therein) of an eventual "completed" F-35. The High Costs and Limited Benefits of the F-35 Program . Quote
Army Guy Posted March 25, 2016 Report Posted March 25, 2016 The reality of the situation is Canada will not be getting any new aircraft. The liberals refuse to make any progress on that program, it is still to hot a topic.... the Cons f***ed it up, and the liberals don't want to touch it....mean while our current fleet will be flying well past another over all date....with no replacement in sight..... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Smallc Posted March 25, 2016 Report Posted March 25, 2016 F-4 Phantoms are still flying too....so what does that prove ? Are they flying with our closest ally and defence partner? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 25, 2016 Report Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) Are they flying with our closest ally and defence partner? Yes....the last QF-4 drones were retired just last year (2015) at Tyndall, decades after the type left front line squadrons. Again, Canadian comparisons to what the United States does for aircraft procurements is meaningless...night and day differences. Edited March 25, 2016 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
dre Posted March 25, 2016 Report Posted March 25, 2016 Drones can't shoot down aircraft, even civilian ones, let alone fighters. So yes, they have to be if we're going to rely on them and not buy fighters. Actually existing drones have a big enough payload to carry AIM-9X Sidewinder, AIM-120 AMRAAM, missiles and most of the other armaments fighters carry. The next predator drone will have twice as big a payload and it has a turbofan as well and stealth. There's no reason that drones cannot take down planes with BVR-LRM missiles just as well as a fighter. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
rotary Posted March 25, 2016 Report Posted March 25, 2016 A blog by a fanatic progressive 'dedicated to the restoration of democracy?? Is this YOUR blog? Give us all a break with such sputum for cites. His All new aircraft have expensive teething problems. You know this. And the costs are still half what they are for the Osprey. It also costs less than the B52, B1 or F22. It has also come down quite a bit of late and will continue to come down as parts and supplies chains are established. The blog simply points out his spurious comments about the F 35. It didn't create them. Sorry to pull the rug out from under your man. Quote
Smallc Posted March 25, 2016 Report Posted March 25, 2016 The reality of the situation is Canada will not be getting any new aircraft. The liberals refuse to make any progress on that program, it is still to hot a topic.... the Cons f***ed it up, and the liberals don't want to touch it....mean while our current fleet will be flying well past another over all date....with no replacement in sight..... The Liberals are performing a review of our defence needs, something not done since 1995. The shipbuilding plan is going forward as fas as the JSS, and aome preliminary decisions will have to be made this year on the CSC. The procurement system is broken. It needs to be fixed before much can happen. Quote
Argus Posted March 25, 2016 Report Posted March 25, 2016 The Liberals are performing a review of our defence needs, something not done since 1995. The shipbuilding plan is going forward as fas as the JSS, and aome preliminary decisions will have to be made this year on the CSC. The procurement system is broken. It needs to be fixed before much can happen. You don't need a defense review to know you have to replaced rusted out armored vehicles. And the procurement system has been broken for fifty years because of political interference. That isn't going to change now. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Army Guy Posted March 26, 2016 Report Posted March 26, 2016 Smallc . A review of our defense needs is code for lets see what we can afford, and what bone will give to keep DND happy.... You know this has nothing to do with a broken procurement system. Just the lack of will to make purchases...The piggy bank is empty and DND will be easy pickings..... As it sits right now, the next F-18 project is not going to be a replacement aircraft but rather what we can afford to put into upgrades.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Smallc Posted March 26, 2016 Report Posted March 26, 2016 You don't need a defense review to know you have to replaced rusted out armored vehicles. And the procurement system has been broken for fifty years because of political interference. That isn't going to change now. Political interference has little to do with the broken and cumbersome process developed for defence procurement. I have faith that it will change now, given that the person in charge is intimately aware of the problem. As for a defence review, it's important for determining what to buy. Quote
Smallc Posted March 26, 2016 Report Posted March 26, 2016 (edited) Smallc . A review of our defense needs is code for lets see what we can afford, and what bone will give to keep DND happy.... Seeing as the current plan was underfunded by the CPC, that's important. You know this has nothing to do with a broken procurement system. Just the lack of will to make purchases...The piggy bank is empty and DND will be easy pickings..... Since 2007, DND has returned 10B to the treasury because of broken process. as it sits right now, the next F-18 project is not going to be a replacement aircraft but rather what we can afford to put into upgrades.... The upgrades were ordered by the CPC when they made it someone else's problem. No fighter jet competiton until the defence review. Edited March 26, 2016 by Smallc Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 26, 2016 Report Posted March 26, 2016 As for a defence review, it's important for determining what to buy. But apparently not nearly as important as what the U.S. is buying....can't buy that F-35 "bomb truck" because of election promises...but wait....maybe...jobs...time out for another "review". Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
rotary Posted March 26, 2016 Report Posted March 26, 2016 But apparently not nearly as important as what the U.S. is buying....can't buy that F-35 "bomb truck" because of election promises...but wait....maybe...jobs...time out for another "review". Who cares what the US is buying? They are forced to buy local. The current election promises to actually run a competition should have been on the table long ago. Value for money is the idea. Quote
WestCanMan Posted March 26, 2016 Report Posted March 26, 2016 When you consider that it was part of that military spending that supplies the bombs and bombers which dropped bombs on Syria to create these refugees then it makes it it very important to look after the refugees. Just what did Canada get for the $billions that we spent on the military - beside becoming a target for terrorists? Wow that's a really interesting spin Big Guy. It has no basis in reality though. Canada shares no more blame for the Syrian refugee crisis than it does for the genocide at Banu Qurayza. Quote If the Cultist Narrative Network/Cultist Broadcasting Corporation gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. "I don't hate American's, I pointed out the literacy rate to Uncle Sam." - LinkSoul "It's just a parable about rocks and trees talking to muslims to help them kill Jews who are trying to hide. It's open to interpretation." - robobigot
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 26, 2016 Report Posted March 26, 2016 Who cares what the US is buying? They are forced to buy local. The current election promises to actually run a competition should have been on the table long ago. Value for money is the idea. Canada should buy local...great idea...now what would that be ? CF-105 Avro Arrow was value too. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
rotary Posted March 26, 2016 Report Posted March 26, 2016 Canada should buy local...great idea...now what would that be ? CF-105 Avro Arrow was value too. And it may well work as good as if not better than the 35 with a few upgrades. Good idea. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 26, 2016 Report Posted March 26, 2016 And it may well work as good as if not better than the 35 with a few upgrades. Good idea. Then it is settled...just text The Right Honourable Justin P. J. Trudeau about it and he will make it happen. No need to spend billions on overpriced American junk when you can spend billions and get nothing. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
rotary Posted March 26, 2016 Report Posted March 26, 2016 Then it is settled...just text The Right Honourable Justin P. J. Trudeau about it and he will make it happen. No need to spend billions on overpriced American junk when you can spend billions and get nothing. No, the Arrow actually worked, and well. But just to keep you guys in the game, we'll probably go for the Super. Something we also know works. Quote
Wilber Posted March 26, 2016 Report Posted March 26, 2016 (edited) Actually existing drones have a big enough payload to carry AIM-9X Sidewinder, AIM-120 AMRAAM, missiles and most of the other armaments fighters carry. The next predator drone will have twice as big a payload and it has a turbofan as well and stealth. There's no reason that drones cannot take down planes with BVR-LRM missiles just as well as a fighter. A Cessna Citation has enough payload capacity to carry those missiles. That doesn't make it a fighter. Our C-17's could carry dozens of both, that doesn't make it a fighter. Just because you can carry it doesn't mean you can get into a position to actually use it. Edited March 26, 2016 by Wilber Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 26, 2016 Report Posted March 26, 2016 No, the Arrow actually worked, and well. But just to keep you guys in the game, we'll probably go for the Super. Something we also know works. It worked so well that it never went into production...even Canada wouldn't buy it. Probably buy doesn't cost anything, and that is exactly what the current government wants to keep doing. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
rotary Posted March 26, 2016 Report Posted March 26, 2016 It worked so well that it never went into production...even Canada wouldn't buy it. Probably buy doesn't cost anything, and that is exactly what the current government wants to keep doing. It worked better than anything the US had. Unfortunately we had a dumb ass conservative as PM who shut it down. All the people went south to show Americans how to build planes and go to the moon. You can thank us anytime. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 26, 2016 Report Posted March 26, 2016 It worked better than anything the US had. Unfortunately we had a dumb ass conservative as PM who shut it down. All the people went south to show Americans how to build planes and go to the moon. You can thank us anytime. Yes, and that's why you should build your own "jets" again. Build them in the U.S. if you have to, since as you say, that's where lots of Canadians like to go after failing back home. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
rotary Posted March 26, 2016 Report Posted March 26, 2016 Yes, and that's why you should build your own "jets" again. Build them in the U.S. if you have to, since as you say, that's where lots of Canadians like to go after failing back home. If Diefenbaker hadn't have screwed up your aerospace would be still in it's infancy. But we came down there and saved yall. Quote
Army Guy Posted March 26, 2016 Report Posted March 26, 2016 Seeing as the current plan was underfunded by the CPC, that's important. Since 2007, DND has returned 10B to the treasury because of broken process. The upgrades were ordered by the CPC when they made it someone else's problem. No fighter jet competiton until the defence review. This problem can not pin on just one government, DND problems are so large now, no one government can fund anything but a small portion...... The process we are talking about dates back further than 2007, it is set up so large purchases are extremily hard to complete within the time process....the funding returned was not part of major purchases or equipment projects, but rather O&M funding that could not be spent in time. in 4 years time we will still be discussing the fighter replacement program....and Canada will be once again looking at upgrades not replacements. It's not a party thing it is reality thing no one wants to touch this with a 10 foot pole... and liberals are no different..... Defense reviews are nothing more than political lies , government promises to DND and the troops that serve this nation, no one really intends to keep them.....what makes Justin crew any different. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 26, 2016 Report Posted March 26, 2016 If Diefenbaker hadn't have screwed up your aerospace would be still in it's infancy. But we came down there and saved yall. Diefenbaker was a prime minister...just like Trudeau....who will screw up procurements again same as the others. This is something that Canada has never really done well. But that's OK....big brother is always there. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.