Omni Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 We really don't need and can't afford the "bomb truck" that needs an escort wherever it goes due to it's lack of maneuverability. But at least now we will have an open competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, Omni said: We really don't need and can't afford the "bomb truck" that needs an escort wherever it goes due to it's lack of maneuverability. But at least now we will have an open competition.  Sorry...the fix is in.  Trudeau lied about excluding the F-35 "bomb truck" from consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:  Sorry...the fix is in.  Trudeau lied about excluding the F-35 "bomb truck" from consideration. Sorry, but that's how open competitions work. You let potential suppliers compete.  1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:  Sorry...the fix is in.  Trudeau lied about excluding the F-35 "bomb truck" from consideration.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 Just now, Omni said: Sorry, but that's how open competitions work. You let potential suppliers compete.  Trudeau "lied"...just like Trump.  Competition just means which American aircraft will Canada buy...again. Where are those "requirements"...eh ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:  Trudeau "lied"...just like Trump.  Competition just means which American aircraft will Canada buy...again. Where are those "requirements"...eh ? Hate to disillusion you, but the Rafael isn't an American aircraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 4 hours ago, segnosaur said: No, it isn't. Canada's CF18 fleet is based on the earlier F18 A/B designs. When the U.S. navy wanted a new plane, they almost started from the ground-up... While the planes have a similar shape, The F18E/F super hornet is substantially different than the previous F18A-D and CF18.... larger size, different engines, different avionics, etc.(The U.S. just used the designation 'F18' to get around rules regarding developing new planes.) So, our flight crews and pilots will be dealing with what is almost a completely new plane, which requires a significant learning process. All to purchase a plane that may be nearing the end of its production run.  Partly true.  Aircraft manufacturers have basic design philosophies that carry forward from model to model and decade to decade. For instance, someone who last flew B727's or even B707's would instantly recognize a B777 as a Boeing aircraft the moment they walked into the cockpit. First look at an Airbus would be a real head scratcher. Boeing, Airbus, McDonnell Douglas all had very different ways of doing certain things. They all work, but quite different. I can tell you from experience that it is a much steeper learning curve to go from a Boeing to an Airbus or vice versa, than it is to go from one Boeing to another or one Airbus to another. So as an interim aircraft, the F-18E makes perfect sense to me. Long term, not as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 Just now, Omni said: Hate to disillusion you, but the Rafael isn't an American aircraft.  Not going to happen.....the "competition" is just more Canadian delay that will result in a defaulted decision because of time and money.  That's how Canada ended up with a shorter range, U.S. Navy carrier based strike fighter last time around.  Looks like more of the same..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 (edited) Member DogOnPorch notes that the F-35 (and most modern combat aircraft) carries a cannon as well as AA missiles. Also notes that TOPGUN and similar programs still exist. Stands by point re: exact sentiment expressed before having MiG-17s (and a few 19s and 21s) cause problems for USAF/Navy in the early days of Viet-Nam. Robin Olds and Chappie James solved that problem at the time. Pretended they were F-105s...a temporary fix. Anyways...old jet. We bought 'em. Edited November 23, 2016 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:  Not going to happen.....the "competition" is just more Canadian delay that will result in a defaulted decision because of time and money.  That's how Canada ended up with a shorter range, U.S. Navy carrier based strike fighter last time around.  Looks like more of the same..... Think of the money we will save not buying things that don't really work and that we don't need in the first place. Like stealth both the Russians and Chineese can see through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 Folks say a lot of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 Just now, Omni said: Think of the money we will save not buying things that don't really work and that we don't need in the first place. Like stealth both the Russians and Chineese can see through.  Doesn't matter, as this is just another chapter in Canada's longstanding CF-18 circle-jerk replacement procurement that has nothing to do with actual aircraft performance or capabilities.  This is about politics and jobs more than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 On 11/22/2016 at 2:34 PM, bush_cheney2004 said: Update:  Now Canada's ruling government has decided to acquire eighteen F-18 Super Hornets for and "interim" basis, without any competition. I wonder how that conversation goes with Boeing and the U.S. government:  "So, like hey...can we borrow 18 Super Hornets ?" http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fighter-jet-purchase-announcement-1.3862210 Because there was no competition,  Where are those elusive F35s??? And actually our Def Min said it is a purchase, but you already knew that with your obsession with all things Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 What is funny is that the procurement of the Super Hornets was proposed by a couple members a long time ago. I bet they were called crazy too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:  Doesn't matter, as this is just another chapter in Canada's longstanding CF-18 circle-jerk replacement procurement that has nothing to do with actual aircraft performance or capabilities.  This is about politics and jobs more than anything else. No, it's actually about an over priced, under performing product. But you guys have to live with it, we don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 Speaking on the topic of air power....here's a bit. Beastly weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 Just now, Omni said: No, it's actually about an over priced, under performing product. But you guys have to live with it, we don't.  The U.S. has lots of aircraft platforms and multiple variants of those platforms.  Canada struggles mightily just to get this single, long overdue procurement put to bed. The process itself is dysfunctional and "under performing"....always has been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 That's more Stratotankers than we have aircraft. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 22 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:  The U.S. has lots of aircraft platforms and multiple variants of those platforms.  Canada struggles mightily just to get this single, long overdue procurement put to bed. The process itself is dysfunctional and "under performing"....always has been. Yep, and as the lod saying goes, "fools and their money are soon parted". what's the latest unit cost of a bombtruck? (the nearest hundred million would be close enough) thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poochy Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 21 hours ago, ?Impact said: I guess thoughtful engaging conversation is dead, long live Trumpland. Sorry, unlike you, i dont shill for anyone, you hide your willingness to lie or cover for this government behind a veil of civility, but it's still just a lie.  If you had the tiniest bit of honor you wouldnt, but you dont, its a simple as that, you're a liberal, you stand for nothing, except wanting to be in charge.  Meanwhile our air force has to make do with last generation aircraft that are completely out classed by the f35, thanks to people like you.  This was a liberal project to begin with, it was the right thing to do then, and it still is, but for purely political reasons these liberals aren't following through in order to buy votes, and that's disgusting, and you, in my book, are equally so for supporting it, and that goes for all of the rest of you too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 34 minutes ago, Wilber said: Aircraft manufacturers have basic design philosophies that carry forward from model to model and decade to decade. For instance, someone who last flew B727's or even B707's would instantly recognize a B777 as a Boeing aircraft the moment they walked into the cockpit. Other than having a yoke instead of a joystick, there is more in common between a modern Airbus and Boeing aircraft than the analog instruments and controls of yesteryear. Today everything is fly by wire, touchscreens, etc. The flight crew has very different responsibilities today then they did years ago. The 707 had a crew of 3 or 4 (navigator needed for over water operations), and the 777 has a crew of 2. Yes, I may have that familiar Ford logo on the steering wheel, but it is not my father's Ford (I couldn't use Oldsmobile as they are history). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 6 minutes ago, Omni said: Yep, and as the lod saying goes, "fools and their money are soon parted". what's the latest unit cost of a bombtruck? (the nearest hundred million would be close enough) thanks  One hundred million is a rounding error for U.S. procurements.  Canada purchases bombtrucks from the very same US of A.  Purchases lots of bombs too.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:  One hundred million is a rounding error for U.S. procurements.  Canada purchases bombtrucks from the very same US of A.  Purchases lots of bombs too.  Of course we do. We just tend to be selective with our meager funds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poochy Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 3 hours ago, ?Impact said: That is an antiquated notion of situational awareness. If you can see the aircraft, then it is time to kiss your ass goodbye. The dogfight is a leftover from World War II, it doesn't occur in reality any more. No, its completely valid, but you're trying to invent an avenue of argument where none actually exists, in other words, deflecting, do you not think that if drones were the right solution that the major powers would already have switched over to them? Â In other words, your spouting bs to defend your boy. Â Also, i enjoy how you mentioned dog fighting, since that was one of the alleged reason the f35 wasnt any good, but as you say, they dont do that much anymore, but that doesnt mean a person in the cockpit isnt a useful thing, another made up, stupid argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, Omni said: Of course we do. We just tend to be selective with our meager funds.  No, what meager fund Canada has are often wasted or spent on contract cancellation fees.  Canada ran out of bombs during the Kosovo War.   Had to visit the American depot at Aviano to get more.  Great planning !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omni Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:  No, what meager fund Canada has are often wasted or spent on contract cancellation fees.  Canada ran out of bombs during the Kosovo War.   Had to visit the American depot at Aviano to get more.  Great planning !! Perhaps we should re-elect PM Chretien so we could stop visiting your wars. Re: Iraq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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