Canada Shunned by Coalition Allies

[Keepitsimple]

Then how can the coalition win this war?

Slowly, surely, carefully.

[Smallc]

Slowly, surely, carefully.

There's zero chance of a win with that strategy. It has to e hard and fast or nothing at all and a totally different strategy. The bombing was only ever intended as a delaying tactic, and that's all it's been.

[Wilber]

Well, it seems Canada isn't interested and the others aren't interested in what Canada thinks.

[Argus]

The "coalition" could have eradicated ISIS a long time ago. I wonder why some of the bright lights here have not explained why a coalition of 62 countries:

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/mobilizing-the-world-up-to-62-nations-and-groups-have-joined-coalition-against-isis

have been unable to wipe out 40,000 disorganized soldiers

I wonder why some of the great generals here never joined the military, given their extensive military expertise and knowledge.

[Shady]

Little by little I am getting convinced that Canada should jump into this war with both feet just like we jumped into that Iraq debacle when pressured by president George Bush!

How exactly did we jump in with so-called both feet?

[overthere]

Of course, the meeting could be about replacing Canada's capability....

It is going to be much harder to replace or repair Canadas crediibility.

Our former allies have seen this movie before, they had a decade + with Chretien. I'll admit that Turudeau will out talk Chretien, who just shrugged, said who gives a s**t, and sent our forces into bad situations with poor equipment. This will be the same performance, but with selfies and more self righteousness.

[Smallc]

Harper was really no different. He talked a good game while at the same time defunding his own military rebuilding plan. How about them politics, eh?

[segnosaur]

How can this war from the view of NATO be to save lives in the region when over a million people, mostly women and children have been killed...

First of all, do you have any proof that "over a million people" have been killed? The figures I've seen for the various ISIS conflicts have been in the thousands, far from the "million people" figure you are quoting.

Secondly, keep in mind that its not just saving lives that's the issue. ISIS is quite brutal with human rights, even worse than places like Iraq, Iran, etc.... western powers are also attempting to prevent ISIS from taking over more territory to allow abuses to happen on a wider scale.

IF, NATO wanted ISIS gone they would have been gone a long time ago

That's pretty much bordering on "conspiracy theory" territory.

Wars are messy, and the fact that the western world want to limit civilian casualties prevents them from just going in there and bombing everything.

[TimG]

There's zero chance of a win with that strategy. It has to e hard and fast or nothing at all and a totally different strategy. The bombing was only ever intended as a delaying tactic, and that's all it's been.

Let's take one example: bombing the trucks used to ship oil to sell. That attack had few civilian causalities but undermined the ability to raise money. Actions like this contribute to their eventual collapse. Many similar targets exist that don't destroy ISIS per se but make it hard and harder for it to continue. That is a reasonable strategy that does more good than sitting back and letting ISIS do whatever it wants.

IOW: is not about delay. It is about causing damage that leads to its collapse even if the the damage itself cannot possibly eliminate ISIS on its own.

Edited January 19, 2016 by TimG

[segnosaur]

have been unable to wipe out 40,000 disorganized soldiers

Actually, nobody knows how many soldiers ISIS has, but it may be far more than 40,000.

From: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/war-with-isis-islamic-militants-have-army-of-200000-claims-kurdish-leader-9863418.html

The Islamic State (Isis) has recruited an army hundreds of thousands strong, far larger than previous estimates by the CIA, according to a senior Kurdish leader. He said the ability of Isis to attack on many widely separated fronts in Iraq and Syria at the same time shows that the number of militant fighters is at least 200,000

As for them being "disorganized soldiers", many of the people with ISIS do have former military experience, and they've shown some ability to quickly learn to use captured American and Russian military equipment.

Then how can the coalition win this war?

As another poster stated... slowly and carefully.

ISIS is a rather horrible entity... human rights abuses exceed even those of places like Iraq/Iran/Saudi Arabia. But, there are problems... Seems like people with skills (doctors, engineers, etc.) don't want to live there and are fleeing the area. (Seems like those with brains don't want to live in a fundamentalist state run by lunatics.). Their economy is in shambles. (Much of their income has been from robbing banks and selling off antiquities, but that is a finite source of income.) Keep them from expanding, and we may find that they collapse on their own.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/isis-wants-us-to-invade-7-facts-revealed-by-their-magazine_p2/

[Spiderfish]

We weren't invited. One can pretend it is anything they like...we still aren't at the table.

Yeah, but Mr. Sajjan has lots of meetings, meetings happen quite regularly...he goes to meetings we aren't even aware of. There's the number of meetings he has with his counterparts (??)...and he's in contact with the comanders on the ground...and...and...oh, and there's NORAD meetings.

[Spiderfish]

It is a snub, pure and simple, from countries who find trouble with ISIS treatment of civilians.

How can it be considered a snub? We (Trudeau) committed to withdrawing from combat, we don't belong at the table.

This is what we wanted...what we elected. We can't have it both ways, either we are part of the fight or we aren't.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Spiderfish

[WestCoastRunner]

We should never have gotten involved in the first place and this may be the opportunity to pull out completely.

JT - Do not lose your courage now. Stand up to those aggressive nations who are now looking for international cover for their mistakes. Get those airplanes back here to-day and the rest of our troops ASAP.

We can't possibly back out otherwise our policies are no better than those that were in place during the holocaust.

Let's not forget how we turned our backs then. We should not make the same mistake, especially with the ever increasing violence towards innocent civilians by IS and Assad.

[capricorn]

Let's not forget how we turned our backs then. We should not make the same mistake, especially with the ever increasing violence towards innocent civilians by IS and Assad.

Excellent reminder WCR, of the atrocities perpetrated by Assad against his own people. It's widely reported that Assad has murdered a lot more Syrians that has Daesh. Both Assad and Daesh are plagues for the entire world and IMO need to be eradicated.

[WestCoastRunner]

Excellent reminder WCR, of the atrocities perpetrated by Assad against his own people. It's widely reported that Assad has murdered a lot more Syrians that has Daesh. Both Assad and Daesh are plagues for the entire world and IMO need to be eradicated.

I have no problem with Canada's participation in whatever way we can best contribute. I will leave those decisions to the military strategists but I would certainly be against full withdrawal.

[DogOnPorch]

Yeah, but Mr. Sajjan has lots of meetings, meetings happen quite regularly...he goes to meetings we aren't even aware of. There's the number of meetings he has with his counterparts (??)...and he's in contact with the comanders on the ground...and...and...oh, and there's NORAD meetings.

Canada had its own beach on D-Day...lol.

I'm sure Mr Sajjan is at every meeting he's invited to.

[DogOnPorch]

We can't possibly back out otherwise our policies are no better than those that were in place during the holocaust.

Let's not forget how we turned our backs then. We should not make the same mistake, especially with the ever increasing violence towards innocent civilians by IS and Assad.

ISIS executions are very popular among a large number of innocent civilians. Roman chariot races.

[Spiderfish]

I'm sure Mr Sajjan is at every meeting he's invited to.

He has a bit of an uphill road however, I don't think his counterparts are tripping over themselves trying to get a selfie with him like with our rock star PM.

[DogOnPorch]

Excellent reminder WCR, of the atrocities perpetrated by Assad against his own people. It's widely reported that Assad has murdered a lot more Syrians that has Daesh. Both Assad and Daesh are plagues for the entire world and IMO need to be eradicated.

Barrel Bomb Assad is awful...but the Islamic State is a special kind of evil. Einsatzgruppen style...or worse.

[DogOnPorch]

He has a bit of an uphill road however, I don't think his counterparts are tripping over themselves trying to get a selfie with him like with our rock star PM.

Eh? No...certainly not.

Edited January 19, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[ReeferMadness]

I wonder if it's occurred to the chest-thumping military geniuses around here that maybe there's a reason that most of the world's great military powers combined are unable to defeat a handful of ragtag extremists with stolen weapons. The answer is simple. ISIS is still there because it's useful to Turkey and Saudi Arabia in the proxy wars that are going on.

Somebody has been buying oil from ISIS (Turkey). Someone has been allowing ISIS fighters into Syria (Turkey). Someone has been selling them ammunition and supplies.

I keep hearing how we're letting down our NATO allies. Really? Our "NATO ally" Turkey has been tacitly supporting ISIS because they're more worried about our other ally the Kurds. And they hate Assad more than ISIS.

And Saudi Arabia, our other "ally" is much more interested in defeating Assad to spite Iran than doing anything to ISIS. In fact, their commitment to defeating ISIS is highly suspect given the Shia-Sunni aspect of the fight in Syria and across the region (ISIS is Sunni and Assad is actually Alawite but that's more on the Shia side). The only real allies we have in the region that really want to fight ISIS are Assad, Iran and the Kurds.

If the coalition really wants ISIS gone, there's a simple way to do it. Pull Turkey and Saudi Arabia representatives into a room. Tell the Turks if they continue to support them, they're out of NATO and they can face Russia on their own. Tell the Sauds if they won't help, there won't be one more bullet sold to their regime.

So, I don't give a crap if Canada isn't invited to some meeting. And before the rest of you get your panties bunched up, maybe one of you could figure out what's really going on and come up with a strategy to deal with reality.

[WestCoastRunner]

I hope that a strategy is drawn up soon because there are an awful lot of atrocities taking place against innocent civilians.

[Argus]

Harper was really no different. He talked a good game while at the same time defunding his own military rebuilding plan. How about them politics, eh?

He still met all our international commitments and sided with our allies.

[Argus]

I wonder if it's occurred to the chest-thumping military geniuses around here that maybe there's a reason that most of the world's great military powers combined are unable to defeat a handful of ragtag extremists with stolen weapons.

Because nobody is willing to put troops on the ground to engage them because of internal political consequences.

[DogOnPorch]

I wish they'd make-up their minds re: childish name calling: is it phobes or it it chest thumping military geniuses?