bush_cheney2004 Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Well, Trudeau will be attending the First Nations Assembly, the first PM to do so since his father. Not only that, an inquiry into missing and murdered indigenous women will be conducted and all recommendations from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission will be implemented. Right...Native people could certainly "rationalize" attacks and mass shootings based on the rhetoric above, but they don't. This is the same logic which concluded that Americans (and Canadians) ""deserved it" and "had it coming" on 9/11/01. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Right...Native people could certainly "rationalize" attacks and mass shootings based on the rhetoric above, but they don't. This is the same logic which concluded that Americans (and Canadians) ""deserved it" and "had it coming" on 9/11/01. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 all recommendations from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission will be implemented. They'll talk about it, but they won't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Right...Native people could certainly "rationalize" attacks and mass shootings based on the rhetoric above, but they don't. Because that already played out centuries ago. Empires came, natives revolted, colonists slaughtered them in defeat until natives were forced to sign land treaties. Do we really want to continue repeating this kind of psychopathic behaviour in the ME? I guess if you and Argus were around in the 16th and 17th C you'd be all for killing all those native "terrorists", taking their land and resources, taking out those pesky uncooperative chiefs. The more things change...! This is the same logic which concluded that Americans (and Canadians) ""deserved it" and "had it coming" on 9/11/01. I never said anyone "deserved it" on 9/11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 What slaughter of the native population in Canada particular are you referring to if any? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Because that already played out centuries ago. Empires came, natives revolted, colonists slaughtered them in defeat until natives were forced to sign land treaties. Do we really want to continue repeating this kind of psychopathic behaviour in the ME? I guess if you and Argus were around in the 16th and 17th C you'd be all for killing all those native "terrorists", taking their land and resources, taking out those pesky uncooperative chiefs. The more things change...! Centuries ago? ....guess again. Lots of exploitation and "genocide" happened much more recently, and some continues to this day. "Sign treaties" = make an offer they can't refuse And yet, no mass shootings of the Queen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 (edited) "Sign treaties" = make an offer they can't refuse And yet, no mass shootings of the Queen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North-West_Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oka_Crisis edit: Mike Hardner says i need to add more comment to this post. The above links show attacks against the Crown by natives. Tada! Edited December 8, 2015 by Moonlight Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 So I hear that the Republicans and the NRA are opposed to a ban on using the "no-fly list" in firearms background checks because they're worried that it would result in unfair discrimination against people who are on the "no-fly list" by mistake. This would be the first case in recorded history where Republicans are concerned about discrimination against people on the "no-fly list". -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 The Republicans will accept no-fly list background checks to deny gun rights as soon as Democrats accept no-fly checks on abortion "rights". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 The Republicans will accept no-fly list background checks to deny gun rights as soon as Democrats accept no-fly checks on abortion "rights". Pregnant women are now a threat to national security and public safety. Only in America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 I do not support targeting civilians, it's deplorable, I don't excuse them for that, and I don't blame us for that. What I'm saying is they have legitimate reasons to be extremely angry with us. Put yourself in their shoes for a minute. If China continued to attack Canada for decades, destroyed its government and installed China-friendly puppet dictators, killed hundreds of thousands of Canadian civilians (possibly including members of your family/friends), brought Chinese companies into Canada to ship out our tar sands, installed Chinese military bases all over Canada to control us, and tortured Canadians who tried to fight the Chinese ...would you be mad at China? Would you feel like taking up arms? Probably, but nobody did that in the middle east. The hodgepodge of countries there was created out of the ruins of the Ottoman Empire, and have been independent for about fifty years. As such, they were treated as any other independent nations. Given their general backwardness and the corruption of their leaders they were, of course, not exactly treated fairly in most negotiations, but I doubt you'd say they were treated any worse than the 'banana republics' of central America. Their resources were, I remind you, discovered by, developed by, and continue to be maintained by western companies. To this day, despite how OPEC brought huge price increases and thus huge wealth to oil producing middle eastern countries in the 1970s, none of them is capable of operating their own oil infrastructure. The degree to which military activities has taken place in that region is due to Islam, and the wholesale rejection Arab states had to the tiny state of Israel being incorporated into their midst. Given the failure of Arab armies, terrorism became a key part of their foreign policies, at first against Israel alone, but then against Western interests and western military and civilians for supporting Israel. Arab governments have supported these various terrorist activities with money, arms, training and bases. I will also remind you that doing any of the above is an act of war when those terrorists then attack a foreign country. The west, including the US, has been extremely restrained given the repeated attacks on their people by terrorists they know are cats-paws for various Arab states. That restraint ended with the WTC incident as far as Afghanistan was concerned. Iraq was, I think, a mistake, but only insofar as it left a power vacuum. Iraq's government deserves no ones' sympathy for being ousted. Because other, inferior nations would commit terrible atrocities for their own gains does that mean it's ok for us to do it? What 'atrocities' have we committed? Since other nations have ie: committed genocide, does that mean it would be ok for us to do it too? When have we committed genocide in the middle east? I'm sorry but I'm not cool with launching wars killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people and denying countries self-determination just so we can save a little money on oil and make our oil & defense contractors richer. Which countries in the middle east are we denying self-determination to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) More Americans have been killed inside US borders by guns since 1968 than in all wars in US History. While Americans spend trillions of dollars waging war in other parts of the world, a much bigger threat is the hundreds of millions of firearms sitting in people's homes inside the country itself. Edited December 9, 2015 by ReeferMadness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 The Republicans will accept no-fly list background checks to deny gun rights as soon as Democrats accept no-fly checks on abortion "rights". I would suggest that humor is not your forte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 ...nobody did that in the middle east. No...if anything we're the poor victims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 No...if anything we're the poor victims. The Arabs started the fighting in the Middle East in order to exterminate the Jews. But then, they followed an escaped Nazi, so...no surprise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 More Americans have been killed inside US borders by guns since 1968 than in all wars in US History. While Americans spend trillions of dollars waging war in other parts of the world, a much bigger threat is the hundreds of millions of firearms sitting in people's homes inside the country itself. That's insane!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 The Arabs started the fighting in the Middle East in order to exterminate the Jews. But then, they followed an escaped Nazi, so...no surprise. The way to peace, between the West and Muslims, and also between the Jews and Arabs, is to forget about any claims about "who started it". There's been so much back-and-forth violence (kill us, then we kill you in response, then you kill us again in response and it continues perpetually) that it really doesn't matter anymore. Both sides have to stop and reach some kind of peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 The way to peace, between the West and Muslims, and also between the Jews and Arabs, is to forget about any claims about "who started it". There's been so much back-and-forth violence (kill us, then we kill you in response, then you kill us again in response and it continues perpetually) that it really doesn't matter anymore. Both sides have to stop and reach some kind of peace. Jew-hate is part of Islam. Good luck 'reforming' it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) Jew-hate is part of Islam. Good luck 'reforming' it. Jew-hate is in the Koran? Link? Just because many Muslims don't like Jews (and many Jews don't like Muslims) doesn't mean there can never be peace. The whole point of peace is that you make peace with your enemies, not with your friends and allies. Jews and Muslims, Western countries and Muslims, keep doing crappy things to each other. There's 2 ways to achieve peace in war: both sides either come to the table and make a deal with compromises both can live with, or you kill the other side until they submit to you. Sometimes, like in the Vietnam war or the Israel-Palestine conflict, one side or both sides is so determined to win that they'll never submit and you'd have to kill almost every damned person on the other side for the fighting to stop. Edited December 9, 2015 by Moonlight Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Jew-hate is in the Koran? Link? Just because many Muslims don't like Jews (and many Jews don't like Muslims) doesn't mean there can never be peace. The whole point of peace is that you make peace with your enemies, not with your friends and allies. Jews and Muslims, Western countries and Muslims, keep doing crappy things to each other. There's 2 ways to achieve peace in war: both sides either come to the table and make a deal with compromises both can live with, or you kill the other side until they submit to you. Sometimes, like in the Vietnam war or the Israel-Palestine conflict, one side or both sides is so determined to win that they'll never submit and you'd have to kill almost every damned person on the other side for the fighting to stop. My mistake. There is absolutely zero hate for Jews in the Quran. In fact, the Jews are viewed as the perfect people. Allah's chosen tribe. Islam accordingly elevates the Jews and celebrates their rejection of the Prophet Mohammad. Say (O Muhammad SAW to the people of the Scripture): "Shall I inform you of something worse than that, regarding the recompense from Allah: those (Jews) who incurred the Curse of Allah and His Wrath, those of whom (some) He transformed into monkeys and swines, those who worshiped Taghut (false deities); such are worse in rank (on the Day of Resurrection in the Hell-fire), and far more astray from the Right Path (in the life of this world)." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) Jew-hate is in the Koran? Link? The resurrection of the dead will not come until the Muslims will war with the Jews and the Muslims will kill them; ... the trees and rocks will say, "O Muslim, O Abdullah, here is a Jew behind me, come and kill him."2 And thou wilt find them [the Jews] the greediest of mankind....4Because of the wrongdoing of the Jews.... And of their taking usury ... and of their devouring people's wealth by false pretenses. We have prepared for those of them who disbelieve a painful doom.8 Allah hath cursed them [the Jews] for their disbelief.9 http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/koran.html The Jews call Ezra a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! (9:30) (See also Bukhari 8:427), one of the last things Muhammad ever said on his deathbed was "May Allah curse the Jews and Christians.”) Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book [Christians and Jews] had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors. (3:110) Verse 5:60 even says that Allah transformed Jews of the past into apes and pigs. This is echoed by verses 7:166 and 2:65. A hadith (Bukhari 54:524) says that Muhammad believed rats to be "mutated Jews" (also confirmed by Sahih Muslim 7135 and 7136). O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. (5:51) http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran-hate.htm Edited December 9, 2015 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) My mistake. There is absolutely zero hate for Jews in the Quran. In fact, the Jews are viewed as the perfect people. Allah's chosen tribe. Islam accordingly elevates the Jews and celebrates their rejection of the Prophet Mohammad. Mohammad didn't hate all Jews, he married a Jew for Pete's sake. The Koran says Jews are great then they're bad then their good again, contradicts itself like the Bible/Torah. Christianity and Judaism says the same things. In the Bible if you don't believe in God or Jesus you're going to hell and/or you should be stoned to death: "If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers ... thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die." - Deuteronomy 13:5-10 The Bible/Torah is about as crazy as the Quran, it tells us to stone and behead people for all sorts of crimes, that slaves should obey their masters, God regularly burns masses of living people to death for sins, unbelievers will be tortured as they burn hell, and all sorts of violent crap. Here's a fav!: "He that is taken with the accursed thing [gold/jewels] shall be burnt with fire, he and all that he hath. ... And Joshua ... took Achan ... and his sons, and his daughters ... And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire." -- Joshua 7:15, 24-25 Edited December 9, 2015 by Moonlight Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Ah for cripes sakes Christianity and Judaism says the same things. In the Bible if you don't believe in God or Jesus you're going to hell and/or you should be stoned to death: If you have been following this topic you would have understood that the Old Testament contains parables and fables from before Christ, and that his coming and his words and his deeds which comprise the New Testament has superseded them. Besides which, you will have a very difficult time today finding any kind of mainstream Christian support for the stuff in the OT but no difficulty whatsoever finding mainstream Muslim world support for the anti-infidel feelings in the Koran. These Jew-hating motifs were reiterated by Egyptian Minister of Religious Endowments Talat Afifi, during an interview shown on Sada Al-Balad TV, March 14, 2013. In response to an interviewer’s query about visiting Israel with “only with a Palestinian visa,” Afifi "This is premature. Let’s wait until it happens. However, we hope that the words of the Prophet Muhammad will be fulfilled: “Judgment Day will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Jews will hide behind the rocks and the trees, but the rocks and the trees will say: Oh Muslim , oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him – except for the gharqad tree, which is one of the trees of the Jews.” We fully believe that the future of this land lies with Islam and the Muslims. http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/analysis/islams-jew-hating-hadith-in-context/2013/04/17/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 The Arabs started the fighting in the Middle East in order to exterminate the Jews. But then, they followed an escaped Nazi, so...no surprise. It's surprising to you that people resisted having to absorb millions of fleeing refugees? Just take a look at the resistance to refugees going on all around you right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 The way to peace, between the West and Muslims, and also between the Jews and Arabs, is to forget about any claims about "who started it". There's been so much back-and-forth violence (kill us, then we kill you in response, then you kill us again in response and it continues perpetually) that it really doesn't matter anymore. Both sides have to stop and reach some kind of peace. There's no getting around it. The solution for peace will have a process that attends it and it will have to deal with reconciliation and acknowledgement. History and events do matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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