DogOnPorch Posted December 27, 2015 Report Posted December 27, 2015 (edited) According to the Hadiths, Aisha was 6 when Mohammad took her as his wife. He didn't rape her until she was 9. http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/062-sbt.php#007.062.064 Edited December 27, 2015 by DogOnPorch Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
dialamah Posted December 27, 2015 Report Posted December 27, 2015 Instead of just telling us how you feel why don't you go out and find an example of one area where a large population of muslims were wonderful & tolerant towards other cultures and shut everyone up for good? That's all it takes. Your one Utopia vs the other 1,500 years and 50 countries which were the exact opposite of utopian. Jews and Muslims, for centuries: Siddiqi quotes some lines from an Arab poet of that time, to illustrate: 'Today the Jews have reached the summit of their hopes and have become aristocrats. Power and riches have they and from them councilors and princes are chosen'. Jews found relief from Christian persecution with Muslims: With Jews we have a long history of peaceful co-existence. When Jews were being persecuted in Europe in the Middle Ages, where did they find peace and harmony? It was Muslim Spain, It is that era of Jewish history that they call the "Golden Age". As Rabbi Minken put it, "it was Mohammedan Spain, the only land the Jew knew in centuries after their dispersion which made the genius of physician possible." After the fall of Spain, they followed Muslims to Morocco and to Egypt where Maimonides became the personal physician of Saladin, who sent him to King Richard to treat the king. In the Ottoman Empire, Jews and Muslims lived and flourished together. Muslim scholars always respected the rights of non-Muslim minority. When the Mongol Tartar became Muslim after capturing Baghdad, he wanted to free fellow Muslims, but Ibn Taimiyyah insisted that the king, if he was a true Muslim should free non- Muslim prisoners, too. It was the generosity of the Muslim Mogul Emperor of India which allowed the operation of the East India Company which later on colonized India. Christians and Muslims, for centuries: For centuries the two faith communities have managed to co-exist peacefully in almost all countries in the Middle East and elsewhere. Islam has recognised Christianity as a sister Abrahamic faith. Places of worship have been respected, freedom of worship accorded and lives and property protected. The oldest known Christian community that speaks the language Jesus allegedly spoke has co-existed with Muslim neighbours until the recent troubles. Christians and Muslims live peacefully in Eritrea: This site doesn't allow copy/paste, unfortunately, but it seems Christians and Muslims have lived peacefully together for about 2000 years. So, are you 'shut-up' now?
WestCanMan Posted December 27, 2015 Report Posted December 27, 2015 Jews and Muslims, for centuries: Jews found relief from Christian persecution with Muslims: Christians and Muslims, for centuries: Christians and Muslims live peacefully in Eritrea: This site doesn't allow copy/paste, unfortunately, but it seems Christians and Muslims have lived peacefully together for about 2000 years. So, are you 'shut-up' now? I just clicked one link, Christians and Muslims for Centuries, and it was just some guy named Fuad Nahdi who said that. That doesn't form the basis of a historical account imo. If the Cultist Narrative Network/Cultist Broadcasting Corporation gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. "I don't hate American's, I pointed out the literacy rate to Uncle Sam." - LinkSoul "It's just a parable about rocks and trees talking to muslims to help them kill Jews who are trying to hide. It's open to interpretation." - robobigot
WestCanMan Posted December 27, 2015 Report Posted December 27, 2015 Jews and Muslims, for centuries: Jews found relief from Christian persecution with Muslims: Christians and Muslims, for centuries: Christians and Muslims live peacefully in Eritrea: This site doesn't allow copy/paste, unfortunately, but it seems Christians and Muslims have lived peacefully together for about 2000 years. So, are you 'shut-up' now? I just clicked the top link, same thing, but there is no name associated with it. Just "Staff Writer". It's worth noting that there is plenty of mention of hostility between Jews and Christians in those articles. My love of religion never seems to grow. If the Cultist Narrative Network/Cultist Broadcasting Corporation gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. "I don't hate American's, I pointed out the literacy rate to Uncle Sam." - LinkSoul "It's just a parable about rocks and trees talking to muslims to help them kill Jews who are trying to hide. It's open to interpretation." - robobigot
WestCanMan Posted December 27, 2015 Report Posted December 27, 2015 (edited) Jews and Muslims, for centuries: Jews found relief from Christian persecution with Muslims: Christians and Muslims, for centuries: Christians and Muslims live peacefully in Eritrea: This site doesn't allow copy/paste, unfortunately, but it seems Christians and Muslims have lived peacefully together for about 2000 years. So, are you 'shut-up' now? http://www.tesfanews.net/eritrea-the-little-told-story-of-religious-co-existence/ ok, I will kind of shut up, but not really. There is a glimmer of hope. That was your eritrea link. Edited December 27, 2015 by WestCanMan If the Cultist Narrative Network/Cultist Broadcasting Corporation gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. "I don't hate American's, I pointed out the literacy rate to Uncle Sam." - LinkSoul "It's just a parable about rocks and trees talking to muslims to help them kill Jews who are trying to hide. It's open to interpretation." - robobigot
Smallc Posted December 27, 2015 Report Posted December 27, 2015 He/She/It doesn't exist for all purposes. Ahh, neither does Jesus the son of God/God, nor does Muhammad in his stated form. What of it? Both books are full of terrible things. The difference is that one book has a bunch of believers who would feel more belonging in the stone age.
Argus Posted December 27, 2015 Report Posted December 27, 2015 (edited) If the "criticism" of Islam didn't focus entirely on a one-sided view, in order to substantiate a fear of Muslims, then yeah - I'd accept that this is all just objective discussion. But what I am seeing from some is that they use parts of the Quran to declare Muslims inherently violent. Gee. Do you think that might be because of the thousands of Muslim terrorists who use those same parts of the Quran to justify their terrorism? Do you think it might be because of the 27,000+ incidents of Muslim terrorism in the last 15 years? Do you think it might be because of the fact there is not a single Muslim nation, and hardly a single non-Muslim nation with a high percentage of Muslims that is not afflicted with holy warriors who demand society be governed by Islamic law and principles? They find reasons to dismiss the many parts of the Quran that teach peace and tolerance Because we look at the Muslim world and we see no peace and no tolerance. As has been pointed out before, it isn't JUST the bombers and killers who we see as being extreme, but those who believe women need to be hidden completely away and have no rights, and those who think gays should be executed, and those who believe the brutality of Sharia law needs to be put in place where they rule. There is no peace and tolerance in any of that. The Westerners who want to use Islam as motivation for terrorism also seem to want to downplay the impact of Western influence and meddling in that region. But the Muslim world is not a 'region'. The most populous Muslim states are actually in southeast Asia, and from the polls, they are even more extreme in their religious beliefs. They support death for apostates and blasphemers, and Sharia law, even more than many states in the middle east. They also hate Jews and practice nothing which could remotely be termed 'tolerance'. Besides, was western 'influence and meddling' unknown elsewhere in the world? Has it inspired terrorism throughout Africa, or just in the Muslim zones? Where are all the South American terrorists? We ignored how much of the Arab world felt about having Isreal plunked down in that region. Because they hate Jews, because the Quran preaches hatred of Jews. Edited December 27, 2015 by Argus "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
DogOnPorch Posted December 27, 2015 Report Posted December 27, 2015 Ahh, neither does Jesus the son of God/God, nor does Muhammad in his stated form. What of it? Both books are full of terrible things. The difference is that one book has a bunch of believers who would feel more belonging in the stone age. No...Mohammad is a historical figure. There is less certainty if Jesus was one fellow or many. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Big Guy Posted December 27, 2015 Report Posted December 27, 2015 Racism, bigotry and xenophobia are not created in individuals through facts, research or experience. They are attitudes towards others who are not like them. Once a racist, always a racist. Facts or logic cannot change that attitude. Their research is based on looking for examples which reinforce their attitude and any other research is discounted by them as "unfounded". Racists, bigots and xenaphobics know inherently that there is something wrong with their thinking and will spend hours trying to rationalize it to others - and themselves. I say - let them be. They need someone to blame for their problems in life (racists and bigots are seldom successful in life). At least they keep themselves busy looking for some minority to blame and are too busy to bother most of us. Fortunately, there are none on this board. Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
DogOnPorch Posted December 27, 2015 Report Posted December 27, 2015 As for what each book teaches... The NT's message is...other than salvation...'Go and do thou likewise'...ie...the Golden Rule. The Quran's message is: There is no god but Allah. Muhammad is the final messenger of Allah. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Guest Posted December 27, 2015 Report Posted December 27, 2015 Racism, bigotry and xenophobia are not created in individuals through facts, research or experience. They are attitudes towards others who are not like them. Once a racist, always a racist. Facts or logic cannot change that attitude. Their research is based on looking for examples which reinforce their attitude and any other research is discounted by them as "unfounded". Racists, bigots and xenaphobics know inherently that there is something wrong with their thinking and will spend hours trying to rationalize it to others - and themselves. I say - let them be. They need someone to blame for their problems in life (racists and bigots are seldom successful in life). At least they keep themselves busy looking for some minority to blame and are too busy to bother most of us. Fortunately, there are none on this board. There are one or two bigots, who are so intolerant of opinions they find unpalatable but somewhat indisputable they try and dismiss them as the ravings of bigots, racists and xenophobes. Instead of actually trying to counter them.
dialamah Posted December 27, 2015 Report Posted December 27, 2015 (edited) There are one or two bigots, who are so intolerant of opinions they find unpalatable but somewhat indisputable they try and dismiss them as the ravings of bigots, racists and xenophobes. Instead of actually trying to counter them. This is how the conversation looks to me: "Black people are lazy and would rather engage in criminal activity or collect welfare than do an honest days work. You say there are black people who have good jobs and lead productive lives and my statement is racist? If there are black people who lead productive lives, they aren't very common and it's not racist to point that out. And how dare you try to shut me up by calling me racist, you bigot!" Substituting Muslims for 'Black people": "Muslims are violent, because the Quran tells them to be. You say there are Muslims who aren't violent, who preach and practice peacefulness and tolerance and that my statement is xenophobic? If there are such Muslims, they aren't very common and are probably not really Muslims anyway - it's not xenophobia to point that out. And how dare you try to shut me up by calling me xenophobic, you bigot!" It was suggested I clarify in order to avoid looking like I was being racist or xenophobic. Hope that works. Edited December 27, 2015 by dialamah
Smallc Posted December 27, 2015 Report Posted December 27, 2015 No...Mohammad is a historical figure. He certainly wasn't a prophet.
Guest Posted December 27, 2015 Report Posted December 27, 2015 Black people are lazy and would rather engage in criminal activity or collect welfare than do an honest days work. You say there are black people who have good jobs and lead productive lives and my statement is racist? If there are black people who lead productive lives, they aren't very common and it's not racist to point that out. And how dare you try to shut me up by calling me racist, you bigot! I didn't. I believe in your right to express your opinion, no matter how much I disagree with it. Muslims are violent, because the Quran tells them to be. You say there are Muslims who aren't violent, who preach and practice peacefulness and tolerance and that my statement is xenophobic? If there are such Muslims, they aren't very common and are probably not really Muslims anyway - it's not xenophobia to point that out. And how dare you try to shut me up by calling me xenophobic, you bigot! See above, in bold. My point, (obviously, I think) is that people try to shut down opinions with which they can't reasonably disagree, but do not want aired, by yelling racism! Bigotry! Xenophobia! Some people do that on here all the time.
DogOnPorch Posted December 27, 2015 Report Posted December 27, 2015 (edited) He certainly wasn't a prophet. He most certainly claimed to have been. The FINAL prophet of Allah. Which is why he had to behead all those Jews who simply refused to recognize his divinity. Why couldn't they have just shut-up and converted to Islam? There would have been Dar al-Islam...look it up. Edited December 27, 2015 by DogOnPorch Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Smallc Posted December 27, 2015 Report Posted December 27, 2015 He most certainly claimed to have been. That's nice.
WestCanMan Posted December 27, 2015 Report Posted December 27, 2015 Racism, bigotry and xenophobia are not created in individuals through facts, research or experience. They are attitudes towards others who are not like them. Once a racist, always a racist. Facts or logic cannot change that attitude. Their research is based on looking for examples which reinforce their attitude and any other research is discounted by them as "unfounded". Racists, bigots and xenaphobics know inherently that there is something wrong with their thinking and will spend hours trying to rationalize it to others - and themselves. I say - let them be. They need someone to blame for their problems in life (racists and bigots are seldom successful in life). At least they keep themselves busy looking for some minority to blame and are too busy to bother most of us. Fortunately, there are none on this board. Religion is not founded on facts, research or experience. Religious persons have attitudes towards others who are not like them. Once a religist, always a religist. Facts or logic cannot change that attitude. Their research is based on looking for examples which reinforce their belief and any other research is discounted by them as "unfounded". Religists don't know that there is anything wrong with their thinking and will spend hours trying to rationalize it to others - and themselves. I say - let them be. They need someone to blame for their problems in life (religists are often successful in life, prayer is an effective goal-setting mechanism and hatred is a good motivator). Extreme religists believe that killing non-believers is noble and will gain them eternal riches and rewards. At least they keep themselves busy looking for some minority to blame and are too busy to bother most of us. Fortunately, there are none on this board. If the Cultist Narrative Network/Cultist Broadcasting Corporation gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. "I don't hate American's, I pointed out the literacy rate to Uncle Sam." - LinkSoul "It's just a parable about rocks and trees talking to muslims to help them kill Jews who are trying to hide. It's open to interpretation." - robobigot
Bryan Posted December 27, 2015 Report Posted December 27, 2015 Black people are lazy and would rather engage in criminal activity or collect welfare than do an honest days work. You say there are black people who have good jobs and lead productive lives and my statement is racist? If there are black people who lead productive lives, they aren't very common and it's not racist to point that out. And how dare you try to shut me up by calling me racist, you bigot! Muslims are violent, because the Quran tells them to be. You say there are Muslims who aren't violent, who preach and practice peacefulness and tolerance and that my statement is xenophobic? If there are such Muslims, they aren't very common and are probably not really Muslims anyway - it's not xenophobia to point that out. And how dare you try to shut me up by calling me xenophobic, you bigot! "Black" is not an ideology. There is no "Black" prophet who set the rules on paper for the ideology, and who led by violent example.
DogOnPorch Posted December 27, 2015 Report Posted December 27, 2015 That's nice. That's nice what? Your own incredulity has nothing to do with Islam being the master faith. It says so in the Quran. Allah is Greater. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Smallc Posted December 27, 2015 Report Posted December 27, 2015 That's nice what? Uhhh, I'm an Atheist. I don't really care what he claimed. He has as much validity as God or Jesus.
DogOnPorch Posted December 27, 2015 Report Posted December 27, 2015 Uhhh, I'm an Atheist. I don't really care what he claimed. He has as much validity as God or Jesus. As mentioned...your own incredulity (means you can't believe it) has nothing to do with Islam being the master faith. Atheists like you and I are DESPISED by Islam as being worse than even polytheists. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Smallc Posted December 27, 2015 Report Posted December 27, 2015 I understand that. I'm saying that their opinion is no more valid - less so in fact. It's nonsense, but no more so than Christianity or Judaism. It just has a bunch of crazy(ier) followers.
DogOnPorch Posted December 27, 2015 Report Posted December 27, 2015 I understand that. I'm saying that their opinion is no more valid - less so in fact. It's nonsense, but no more so than Christianity or Judaism. It just has a bunch of crazy(ier) followers. I'd believe all religions were equal...equally peaceful....equally violent...if they in fact WERE. But they are NOT. You, however, can tell yourself anything you wish to justify Islam's actions on the world stage. My questions still stand: Did Mohammad murder anybody? Did Mohammad rape anybody? Did Mohammad molest children? Did Mohammad lead armies to conquer territory for the religion he created? Did Jesus....? Same questions. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Smallc Posted December 27, 2015 Report Posted December 27, 2015 We don't actually know that in either case. The timelines involved don't allow it.
DogOnPorch Posted December 27, 2015 Report Posted December 27, 2015 We don't actually know that in either case. The timelines involved don't allow it. Yes we do...Mohammad's history is well documented. Did he murder anybody? Did he rape anybody? Did he molest children? Did he lead armies to conquer territory for the religion he created? Why so afraid to answer? Is it a check-mate to you? Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
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