Argus Posted December 23, 2015 Report Posted December 23, 2015 Islamophobia is spiraling out of control. I'm not even Muslim and I find it scary. I can imagine Muslims find it scarier. Are you aware that there were three times more hate crimes reported against Jews than against Muslims? "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
dialamah Posted December 23, 2015 Report Posted December 23, 2015 Are you aware that there were three times more hate crimes reported against Jews than against Muslims? True and I wondered who attacks Jews and why? I found this, which unfortunately sounds much like what is being said about Muslims today. But given the apparent deep-seated hatred of Jews around the world, I really do wonder when/why it originated.
eyeball Posted December 23, 2015 Report Posted December 23, 2015 The problem is God. Always was and probably always will be. I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Argus Posted December 23, 2015 Report Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) True and I wondered who attacks Jews and why? I found this, which unfortunately sounds much like what is being said about Muslims today. But given the apparent deep-seated hatred of Jews around the world, I really do wonder when/why it originated. Your post seems more like an excuse to post a link to anti-Semitic hate literature, since nothing which has been said about Muslims is in any way comparable to the hate literature against Jews you linked to. Edited December 24, 2015 by Argus "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
dialamah Posted December 23, 2015 Report Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) Your post seems more like an excuse to post anti-Semitic hate literature, since nothing which has been said about Muslims is in any way comparable to the hate literature against Jews you linked to. It is to me. The claim has been made here that Muslims want to kill everyone who isn't Muslim and to essentially take over the world; the link I posted made the same claim about Jews. But my question was really, why? What can be found in Jewish history to engender such extreme views? The problem is God. Probably the best explanation I'll ever get. Edited December 23, 2015 by dialamah
DogOnPorch Posted December 23, 2015 Report Posted December 23, 2015 It is to me. The claim has been made here that Muslims want to kill everyone who isn't Muslim and to essentially take over the world; the link I posted made the same claim about Jews. But my question was really, why? What can be found in Jewish history to engender such extreme views? Which poster made the claim that all Muslims want to kill everyone who isn't Muslim? Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Argus Posted December 23, 2015 Report Posted December 23, 2015 It is to me. The claim has been made here that Muslims want to kill everyone who isn't Muslim No one has ever made any such claim. But my question was really, why? What can be found in Jewish history to engender such extreme views? How odd that is the exact same tone the hate literature you linked to took. It's a sort of "well, ya know, where there's smoke..." "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
dialamah Posted December 23, 2015 Report Posted December 23, 2015 No one has ever made any such claim. Guess you haven't really been paying attention if you think no-one hasn't implied or outright stated that Islam commands Muslims to kill all non-believers, and that those who do not comply are not 'true Muslims" or are 'just waiting for the call'. How odd that is the exact same tone the hate literature you linked to took. It' sort of "well, ya know, where there's smoke..."s a There's usually something that someone seizes on to feed their fear/hatred. Perhaps it's merely that in Leviticus, there's a command to kill non-believers. Or maybe it's because Jesus threw the merchants out of the temple. Anyway, I'm certain that whatever it is, its as bogus as any other reason to hate/fear an entire group of people.
DogOnPorch Posted December 23, 2015 Report Posted December 23, 2015 Guess you haven't really been paying attention if you think no-one hasn't implied or outright stated that Islam commands Muslims to kill all non-believers, and that those who do not comply are not 'true Muslims" or are 'just waiting for the call'. There's usually something that someone seizes on to feed their fear/hatred. Perhaps it's merely that in Leviticus, there's a command to kill non-believers. Or maybe it's because Jesus threw the merchants out of the temple. Anyway, I'm certain that whatever it is, its as bogus as any other reason to hate/fear an entire group of people. There is this handy thing called a quote feature. Provide an example. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Bryan Posted December 24, 2015 Report Posted December 24, 2015 Which poster made the claim that all Muslims want to kill everyone who isn't Muslim? dialamah is probably misquoting me.
dialamah Posted December 24, 2015 Report Posted December 24, 2015 Bryan, on 07 Dec 2015 - 7:03 PM, said: Islam is an ideology that teaches its followers to kill, the others do not. Argus, on 05 Nov 2015 - 4:37 PM, said: Why is it hyperbolic to suggest vast numbers of Muslims want to execute anyone who blasphemes, insults the prophet, or tries to leave Islam when it's demonstrably true? notca, on 08 Nov 2015 - 12:21 PM, said: However Islam has never evolved in centuries. It is an angry and vengeful religion which totally dominates the lives of its followers. It is the goal of Islam to dominate in the world. Those Muslims who claim to be peaceful may appear to be, may even believe they are, but if called upon by their religious leader to defend Islam and smite the 'infidels', it will be their duty to do it.Quite frankly, it scares the hell out of me! History tells us where this new movement by the refugees is very likely headed and I never in my life hoped so much to be wrong.I do not hate Muslims but I do hate their religion and I think they have been duped, brainwashed and/or forced to follow it from birth. I don't believe it will ever live peacefully with the many diverse beliefs and non-believers in our western societies. drummindiver, on 05 Dec 2015 - 8:44 PM, said: The Qu'ran is indeed the enemy. When you have a book that literally millions of ppl believe is the direct word of God telling you to kill, you're damn straight it's the enemy. dialamah, on 05 Dec 2015 - 9:33 PM, said: Then why aren't these "millions" of people killing? Why is it that so many Muslims live peacefully with unbelievers and apostates? Bryan, on 05 Dec 2015 - 9:37 PM, said: They are biding their time, waiting to be called. Argus, on 06 Dec 2015 - 09:23 AM, said: I'm not aware of any country where Muslims live peacefully with unbelievers unless the percentage of Muslims is very low. Once a certain threshold in numbers is reached, percentagewise, it seems to bring with it a chafing at the lack of Islam in daily life, and a demand that changes be made in media, in culture, in government and laws, to respond to the religious sensibilities of Muslims. Then violence ensues. drummindiver, on 05 Dec 2015 - 2:19 PM, said: Or this:"The problem with the good teachings of Muhammad is that they are reserved for fellow Muslims. When the hadith says “None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself,.” it is talking about the fellow Muslims. The brotherhood in Islam does not extend to everyone. The Quran (9:23) states that the believers should not take for friends and protectors (awlia) their fathers and brothers if they love Infidelity above Islam. In fact there are many verses that tell the Muslims to kill the unbelievers and be harsh to them. A clear example that Islam is not based on the Golden Rule is the verse (48:29): “Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other.” This is the perfect definition of fascism.There are many other verses that show the brotherhood in Islam is not universal. The non believers have no rights and should not be treated in the same way that Muslims are to be treated. The entire Quran is a breach of the Golden Rule. The Quran tells Muslims to slay the unbelievers wherever they find them (2:191), do not befriend them (3:28), fight them and show them harshness (9:123), smite their heads (47:4), etc. Are these verses compatible with the Golden Rule?Islam is the only doctrine that calls upon its believers to do evil to others for the simple fact that they are not believers." WestCanMan, on 15 Dec 2015 - 7:58 PM, said: It's a different kind of killing Hudson, when it's christians killing christians. The killing from the Muslims that we are targeting is "Muslims killing every other group or culture they come in contact with specifically because they aren't Muslims." Islam survives the death of those living entities. Only the Quran claims to be the actual words of a deity. Allah wrote the Quran. Dictated it to Mohammed. Muslims believe in the Quran...all of it. If not...they're not Muslims. I'm sure I could find more, but my dog wants petting.
DogOnPorch Posted December 24, 2015 Report Posted December 24, 2015 So where did I say all Muslims want to kill all non-Muslims? What part of what I wrote do you disagree with? Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
dialamah Posted December 24, 2015 Report Posted December 24, 2015 So where did I say all Muslims want to kill all non-Muslims? What part of what I wrote do you disagree with? You are part of the gang that believes the only important part of the Quran is the part that commands Muslims to kill non-believers, apostates, etc. You ignore and dismiss anything within the Quran that teaches non-violence, tolerance or peace. I'm not going to waste my time going through this thread, or any other, to "prove" that to you. If you believe differently, you can spend your time proving that.
DogOnPorch Posted December 24, 2015 Report Posted December 24, 2015 You are part of the gang that believes the only important part of the Quran is the part that commands Muslims to kill non-believers, apostates, etc. You ignore and dismiss anything within the Quran that teaches non-violence, tolerance or peace. I'm not going to waste my time going through this thread, or any other, to "prove" that to you. If you believe differently, you can spend your time proving that. That's not what I wrote. The Quran speaks for itself. If you don't like what's inside, why are you defending it? Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Bryan Posted December 24, 2015 Report Posted December 24, 2015 (edited) That's not what I wrote. The Quran speaks for itself. If you don't like what's inside, why are you defending it? That would require dialamah to actually read it instead of taking other's word for it. Edited December 24, 2015 by Bryan
dialamah Posted December 24, 2015 Report Posted December 24, 2015 That's not what I wrote. The Quran speaks for itself. If you don't like what's inside, why are you defending it? That is what you wrote, and much more like that. If you don't like what you wrote, that's not my problem. That would require dialamah to actually read it instead of taking other's word for it. People's actions speak louder than any book, which is why I don't judge 1.5 billion people as genocidal murderers just "waiting to be called", based on the actions of less than one half of one percent of them.
DogOnPorch Posted December 24, 2015 Report Posted December 24, 2015 That is what you wrote, and much more like that. If you don't like what you wrote, that's not my problem. People's actions speak louder than any book, which is why I don't judge 1.5 billion people as genocidal murderers just "waiting to be called", based on the actions of less than one half of one percent of them. Islam survives the death of those living entities. This is true. Otherwise it would have died-out in the 7th century. Only the Quran claims to be the actual words of a deity. Also true. The Quran was dictated to Mohammed by Allah (that would be God) after his night flight with the angel Gabriel to the furthest mosque. Muslims believe in the Quran...all of it. If not...they're not Muslims. True as well. Muslims are not free to pick and choose which of Allah's commands he/she follows. (see below) Quran 24:52 And whoever obeys Allah and His Messenger and fears Allah and is conscious of Him - it is those who are the attainers. Since you can't find me saying/writing all Muslims want to kill all non-Muslims, I'll treat your baseless accusation for what it is worth...nothing. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted December 24, 2015 Report Posted December 24, 2015 That would require dialamah to actually read it instead of taking other's word for it. It says a lot that people have to lie in order to protect Islam. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Big Guy Posted December 24, 2015 Report Posted December 24, 2015 A man, obviously a terrorist waving a machete attempted to kill Canadians in Toronto. Anyone waving a machete cannot be mistaken for anything but someone trying to instil terror in Canadians. Apparently, he is from Queens New York and probably a member of a sleeper cell that has been programmed by those terrorists in Queens who want to take over the world. We must stop all entry into Canada from anyone from New York. We should halt all immigration from the United States because it has shown to be protector and generator of terrorists. These people from New York and New Jersey have a distinctive accent that can easily be identified. We must set up a telephone reporting line that the public can use to report when they hear those distinctive Brooklyn and New Jersey terrorist accents. We must be afraid, really afraid and report these potential terrorists to the authorities! Bring those C-18 's back here to patrol our Southern border. Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Argus Posted December 24, 2015 Report Posted December 24, 2015 (edited) Guess you haven't really been paying attention if you think no-one hasn't implied or outright stated that Islam commands Muslims to kill all non-believers, and that those who do not comply are not 'true Muslims" or are 'just waiting for the call'.There is an enormous difference between criticizing an ideology and creed, and pointing out the current behaviour of many who follow it, and the hate literature you linked to which makes all kinds of ridiculous allegations, virtually all of them dishonest, about a people. Saying there are parts of Koran which command violence against unbelievers, in other words, is not the same as saying Jews are greedy and corrupt and are involved in a conspiracy to control the world. Anyway, I'm certain that whatever it is, its as bogus as any other reason to hate/fear an entire group of people. There is a complete absence of logic in your certainty. You cannot suggest that because people make things up about Jews therefore everything people are complaining about with regard to the Muslim world and its culture is also wrong. That's especially when those who make claims about the Muslim world and Islam support them with evidence, as opposed to those who simply make preposterous claims and accusations about Jews with no evidence or facts behind them. Edited December 24, 2015 by Argus "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
DogOnPorch Posted December 24, 2015 Report Posted December 24, 2015 Saying there are parts of Koran which command violence against unbelievers, in other words, is not the same as saying Jews are greedy and corrupt and are involved in a conspiracy to control the world. The Quran (Allah) has this to say... Quran 2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship (al-Masjid al- îaram) until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. Quran 2:192 But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. Quran 2:193 And fight them until fitna (persecution and strife) is no more, and all religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Argus Posted December 24, 2015 Report Posted December 24, 2015 People's actions speak louder than any book, which is why I don't judge 1.5 billion people as genocidal murderers just "waiting to be called", based on the actions of less than one half of one percent of them. But you have previously admitted that anyone who believes apostates should be executed is an extremist. Therefore, the percentage of the Muslim world which is composed of extremists is considerably higher than one half of one percent, is it not? "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
eyeball Posted December 24, 2015 Report Posted December 24, 2015 But you have previously admitted that anyone who believes apostates should be executed is an extremist. Therefore, the percentage of the Muslim world which is composed of extremists is considerably higher than one half of one percent, is it not?Only in your fervid imagination. I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
dialamah Posted December 24, 2015 Report Posted December 24, 2015 There is an enormous difference between criticizing an ideology and creed, and pointing out the current behaviour of many who follow it, and the hate literature you linked to which makes all kinds of ridiculous allegations, virtually all of them dishonest, about a people. Saying there are parts of Koran which command violence against unbelievers, in other words, is not the same as saying Jews are greedy and corrupt and are involved in a conspiracy to control the world. There is a complete absence of logic in your certainty. You cannot suggest that because people make things up about Jews therefore everything people are complaining about with regard to the Muslim world and its culture is also wrong. That's especially when those who make claims about the Muslim world and Islam support them with evidence, as opposed to those who simply make preposterous claims and accusations about Jews with no evidence or facts behind them. Hey, Argus, would love to continue these various conversations with you, but it's Christmas Eve, my son is visiting and I have some pies to bake. Merry Christmas.
drummindiver Posted December 25, 2015 Report Posted December 25, 2015 Argus, on 05 Nov 2015 - 4:37 PM, said: WestCanMan, on 15 Dec 2015 - 7:58 PM, said: I'm sure I could find more, but my dog wants petting. Stating what the Qu'ran states is a fact. It states what it states. No one has ever said everyone who reads it will follow it to the letter, though a shocking number attempt to. If you read Milestones by Sayed Quatb you would get a glimpse as to why. It is Christmas, I'm surrounded by family and dogs and wish you Merry Christmas, and a thank you for the thoughtful debates.
Recommended Posts