Islamophobia in Canada

[WestCoastRunner]

Ok, so even supposing you would be the real Rosa Parks of Williamsburg that you claim you would be, why would you think less of women who didn't wish to be subject to that sort of confrontation and intimidation on a daily basis?

-k

Where did I say I would think less? I am always only speaking for myself. I have repeatedly said I am only speaking for myself. My personality Is quite different from the mainstream so I do not expect women from the mainstream to behave like me.

[Guest]

We're not discriminating against an individual, but against a group or area. Why is it okay for the Liberals to discriminate against single men in Syria on the basis that they believe they are more likely to be a threat, and yet not okay for us to discriminate between accepting ten thousand Pakistani immigrants and ten thousand Portuguese immigrants?

Which group, statistically, do you think are both less likely to be threats, and more likely to adapt and integrate, and perform well economically in Canada?

Define 'bad behaviour'. Given our notoriously inefficient, ineffective, and expensive legal system, it's very difficult to kick out immigrants who commit crimes. It's virtually impossible to kick out immigrants simply because of 'bad behaviour'. Witness the Khadr family, safely ensconced on welfare in Toronto all these years.

It's not that I disagree with you about the possibility that some Muslims with views I find dodgy might get in, it's just that I believe in the rights of the individual. I'm against affirmative action for the same reasons as I am against what you propose. I'm against discriminating against an individual for what some might perceive to be the greater good. (Unless the individual has shown a good reason why he or she should be discriminated against, of course)

As to your second point, I totally agree. That's why I had no problem with the phrase "Barbaric Cultural Practices" and I have no problem with revoking citizenship for anyone not born here. Me included.

[kimmy]

Where did I say I would think less? I am always only speaking for myself. I have repeatedly said I am only speaking for myself. My personality Is quite different from the mainstream so I do not expect women from the mainstream to behave like me.

Didn't you just call me a scaredy-cat for saying I wouldn't live in a neighborhood like that?

-k

[WestCoastRunner]

Didn't you just call me a scaredy-cat for saying I wouldn't live in a neighborhood like that?

That is true. My apologies.

-k

[kimmy]

Ok, so you don't blame women for not sharing your desire to enter into confrontations like that, and you understand that you're different from most women in this respect... so surely it follows that you can understand that most women would prefer not to live alongside religious fundamentalists, right?

-k

[Guest]

Ok, so you don't blame women for not sharing your desire to enter into confrontations like that, and you understand that you're different from most women in this respect... so surely it follows that you can understand that most women would prefer not to live alongside religious fundamentalists, right?

-k

Neither would most men, I hope. Bloody nutcases.

[WestCoastRunner]

Ok, so you don't blame women for not sharing your desire to enter into confrontations like that, and you understand that you're different from most women in this respect... so surely it follows that you can understand that most women would prefer not to live alongside religious fundamentalists, right?

-k

I don't understand your arguments. I don't presume anything of anyone. And I don't get your assumptions about most women. Do you speak for most women?

[WestCoastRunner]

Neither would most men, I hope. Bloody nutcases.

There is a difference between living alongside them and adopting their lifestyle. This forum has denigrated into absolute racism and bigotry and I challenge the moderators to rein in this runaway train.

[Guest]

There is a difference between living alongside them and adopting their lifestyle. This forum has denigrated into absolute racism and bigotry and I challenge the moderators to rein in this runaway train.

I disagree. A religious fundamentalist is one who wishes to impose his or her religion on others. (to my mind) Anyone has the right to say what they think about any religion without any bogus accusations of racism and bigotry which only serve to indicate the lack of an argument in all but the most obvious of cases.

Edit> Wait a minute, By bigots, you don't mean those who object to perfectly reasonable opinions about the more barbaric aspects of some religions and their descriptions of the people who justifiably object to such barbarism, do you? Because if you do, I don't disagree.

Edited December 19, 2015 by bcsapper

[kimmy]

I don't understand your arguments. I don't presume anything of anyone. And I don't get your assumptions about most women. Do you speak for most women?

I don't think I need to cite polls to claim that most women don't want to be verbally abused for their hair and their clothes when they go out in public. I know that most women don't want to be harassed by the Modesty Police when they go out in public. You know that too.

There is a difference between living alongside them and adopting their lifestyle. This forum has denigrated into absolute racism and bigotry and I challenge the moderators to rein in this runaway train.

... and it's not racist or bigoted or xenophobic to not want to live in a community where you'd be harassed for your hair and your clothes when you go out in public. It's not racist or bigoted or xenophobic to object to the existence of communities where things like that happen.

-k

[WestCoastRunner]

I don't think I need to cite polls to claim that most women don't want to be verbally abused for their hair and their clothes when they go out in public. I know that most women don't want to be harassed by the Modesty Police when they go out in public. You know that too.

... and it's not racist or bigoted or xenophobic to not want to live in a community where you'd be harassed for your hair and your clothes when you go out in public. It's not racist or bigoted or xenophobic to object to the existence of communities where things like that happen.

-k

my point is women don't have to live in these places.

[WestCoastRunner]

I don't think I need to cite polls to claim that most women don't want to be verbally abused for their hair and their clothes when they go out in public. I know that most women don't want to be harassed by the Modesty Police when they go out in public. You know that too.

... and it's not racist or bigoted or xenophobic to not want to live in a community where you'd be harassed for your hair and your clothes when you go out in public. It's not racist or bigoted or xenophobic to object to the existence of communities where things like that happen.

-k

Women can live where they want to live.

[WestCoastRunner]

I don't think I need to cite polls to claim that most women don't want to be verbally abused for their hair and their clothes when they go out in public. I know that most women don't want to be harassed by the Modesty Police when they go out in public. You know that too.

... and it's not racist or bigoted or xenophobic to not want to live in a community where you'd be harassed for your hair and your clothes when you go out in public. It's not racist or bigoted or xenophobic to object to the existence of communities where things like that happen.

-k

Then stay safe and warm where you feel comfortable. I don't have a problem with that. I prefer to engage in environments that challenge everyone.

[Guest]

So you're an "anti-feminist"? You think women should be treated badly as a challenge?

What about jobs? Do you disdain the safe and warm environment afforded by employment equality for the challenge of finding work in an environment that discriminates against women?

[Bonam]

So you're an "anti-feminist"? You think women should be treated badly as a challenge?

What about jobs? Do you disdain the safe and warm environment afforded by employment equality for the challenge of finding work in an environment that discriminates against women?

Here, I'll decrypt it for you. Women should enjoy the challenge of being spat upon but the challenge of learning to get ahead in a male-dominated workplace is unfair discrimination. Why? Because you can blame the workplace conditions on that most evil of all scapegoats, the dreaded "white male", while the spitting is coming from a member of a "minority group" and is thus an "interesting experience".

Edited December 19, 2015 by Bonam

[Argus]

I can engage in anyone. As I say, we create our own environment. It may take some challenges but I am up for challenges. You just sound scared kimmy.

So a bunch of men come up to you and start cursing and spitting on you and you're going to... engage them in a philosophical conversation on the equality of women while they're doing it?

I'd really like a copy of the video on that one.

[Argus]

I'd feel awesome.

My point kimmy is that we shouldn't hide from these ethnic neighbourhoods. Why not explore them and expose them.

Why not just not encourage their development? Why not discourage people with that mindset from coming to Canada?

[Argus]

It's not that I disagree with you about the possibility that some Muslims with views I find dodgy might get in, it's just that I believe in the rights of the individual.

Me too. Where we differ is in that I don't believe any foreigner, whether he or she is in Pakistan or India or Thailand or Spain or Ecuador, has any inherent right to emigrate to Canada. Therefore the Canadian immigration system ought to be designed solely to benefit Canada as much as possible in a fair and impartial manner. We should look at macroeconomic and social data to decide where our immigrants should come from and which kind would be best able to succeed economically in Canada, with the highest probability of integration and the lowest chance of social upheaval.

That position, of course, is anathema to much of the Left, whose response will be to call me names.

[Argus]

There is a difference between living alongside them and adopting their lifestyle.

You appear to be assuming that you can live among and alongside people with social views which are hostile to you and yet not have your quality of life negatively impacted. Let me suggest you try to imagine life living as a black women among a group of 1960s era southern rednecks and racists.

This forum has denigrated into absolute racism and bigotry and I challenge the moderators to rein in this runaway train.

I would suggest you are demonstrating a total lack of understanding of what those words mean, and a classic intolerance of and hostility towards those who have different views than yours.

[Charles Anthony]

Folks,

If you have nothing to add to the discussion, do not post.

I took down some thread drift and lots of fuel.

[kimmy]

my point is women don't have to live in these places.

Women can live where they want to live.

Then stay safe and warm where you feel comfortable. I don't have a problem with that. I prefer to engage in environments that challenge everyone.

Ok, so this is progress. You at least agree now that not wanting to live in a place where you'd be subject to harassment isn't xenophobic or racist, and you understand why people would want to move away from places where they (or their wives or their daughters) would be subject to harassment.

So when enough people who have the means to leave those areas find someplace else to live, who's left in those areas?

-k

[WestCanMan]

You know how many Muslims ISIS has killed? Thousands more Muslims than non-Muslims.

Which again, goes back to the point that some people are unable grasp, for some reason; You cannot equate the ideology and beliefs of everyone, because they are called Muslim. It's ridiculous to do so.

"It's a different kind of killing" - C'mon. The reason the killer has created for the killing makes no difference. At the end of the day, a person has been killed. At the end of the day, the person who has been killed has left a son, daughter, sister, brother, father, mother behind.

Taking the life of another person is an unnatural act. It cannot be explained away, no matter what the motive is.

The motive is all-important here Hudson. War between two countries over a long-standing land-claim or what have you is limited in scope to some earthbound assets, or a specific disagreement between the two nations.

Isis's war is against everyone on the face of the earth that doesn't abide by their interpretation of the koran.

Is there a difference between Trudeau fighting Isil and Trudeau going across the country killing everyone who voted for the conservatives? If your answer is yes then you understand exactly what I am talking about.

[WestCoastRunner]

Ok, so this is progress. You at least agree now that not wanting to live in a place where you'd be subject to harassment isn't xenophobic or racist, and you understand why people would want to move away from places where they (or their wives or their daughters) would be subject to harassment.

So when enough people who have the means to leave those areas find someplace else to live, who's left in those areas?

-k

I don't know why you continue to drag this on. You asked a question about a single non Jewish woman moving to this neighbourhood. I gave my answer. And it still stands.

[WestCoastRunner]

You appear to be assuming that you can live among and alongside people with social views which are hostile to you and yet not have your quality of life negatively impacted. Let me suggest you try to imagine life living as a black women among a group of 1960s era southern rednecks and racists.

I would suggest you are demonstrating a total lack of understanding of what those words mean, and a classic intolerance of and hostility towards those who have different views than yours.

Hostility? Alrighty then.

[WestCoastRunner]

So a bunch of men come up to you and start cursing and spitting on you and you're going to... engage them in a philosophical conversation on the equality of women while they're doing it?

I'd really like a copy of the video on that one.

As I do love documentaries, I will be sure to send you a copy. PM me your addy.