Islamophobia in Canada

[cybercoma]

Islam is a religion. Not a race. You and I could convert today..."radicalize" during the week...blow-up the K-Mart by Friday prayers.

It's not radicalism that people seem to care about, unless it radicalism by people who aren't like them. The radicals that believe in the things that they do are "mentally ill" or some other sanitized "tragedy" story.

[cybercoma]

Leaving the question of Islam completely out of it... if you were a single, non-Jewish woman, would you willingly choose to live in a Hasidic area of Jerusalem, or even a Hasidic enclave like Williamsburg New York?

-k

Why it's almost as if culture is learned through socialization in a community throughout one's life.

Which, yes, does imply culture can be unlearned too. For example, the hundreds of thousands of people that come to Canada and adapt to our way of life.

Edited December 18, 2015 by cybercoma

[cybercoma]

My intention was to address the people who reflexively defend Islam with an example that illustrates my concern without engaging their instinct to frame such concerns as "racist".

edit to add: Rue's message makes the point I was trying to get at.

-k

How about ethnocentric xenophobia? Can we agree on that? I wouldn't want you to get hung up on semantics.

[cybercoma]

Please provide proof of that assertion.

"They don't see themselves as Canadians first!"

Why it's almost as if we're going to quarantine those godless heathens who show their first allegiance to the pope and not the King! They're a bunch of uncivilized drunks who will corrupt the very fabric of our moral society!

Wait, that was the Irish.

[cybercoma]

Our political system is such that groups have influence proportionate to both their numbers, and how determined they are to affect change.

Except that kind of raw democracy is tempered by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms that you hate you so much. There's certain rights you retain regardless of what a tyrannical majority might want.

[kimmy]

Why it's almost as if culture is learned through socialization in a community throughout one's life.

Which, yes, does imply culture can be unlearned too. For example, the hundreds of thousands of people that come to Canada and adapt to our way of life.

I notice you didn't actually answer the question. Would you blame me for not wanting to live in a Hasidic neighborhood?

You seem to want to argue that it wouldn't necessarily happen that way, but that seems to be based on optimism rather than realism.

-k

[DogOnPorch]

It's not radicalism that people seem to care about, unless it radicalism by people who aren't like them. The radicals that believe in the things that they do are "mentally ill" or some other sanitized "tragedy" story.

I don't think there is a radical Quran. Just the Quran.

[Smallc]

I notice you didn't actually answer the question. Would you blame me for not wanting to live in a Hasidic neighborhood?

Of course, no one is asking you to do that. In Canada, in Toronto, we have pretty close to the highest concentration of various (maligned) groups that you're going to find anywhere in the world. There aren't many (if any) places that I would be scared to go there.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Smallc

[Smallc]

I don't think there is a radical Quran. Just the Quran.

I expect then, that we should be dealing with about 1.5B suicide bombers at any moment.

[DogOnPorch]

How about ethnocentric xenophobia? Can we agree on that? I wouldn't want you to get hung up on semantics.

Do you feel non-Muslims owe Islam respect?

[DogOnPorch]

I expect then, that we should be dealing with about 1.5B suicide bombers at any moment.

You figure?

[kimmy]

I don't think there is a radical Quran. Just the Quran.

There's no Radical Bible either, but it contains some pretty horrendous stuff. Most Christians are able to adapt their understanding of it to life in this century. I believe that most first-world Muslims do the same.

-k

[kimmy]

Of course, no one is asking you to do that. In Canada, in Toronto, we have pretty close to the highest concentration of various (maligned) groups that you're going to find anywhere in the world. There aren't many (if any) places that I would be scared to go there.

I didn't ask about some random ethnic neighborhood. If you were a non-Jewish female would you be comfortable living alone in a heavily Hasidic neighborhood? As Rue explained earlier, it's not much of a picnic.

-k

[DogOnPorch]

There's no Radical Bible either, but it contains some pretty horrendous stuff. Most Christians are able to adapt their understanding of it to life in this century. I believe that most first-world Muslims do the same.

-k

All I know is that Jesus didn't make his captives taken in war lift their arms to expose any tell tale underarm hair. If you were male and had just one...slit/chop/hack.

[Smallc]

I didn't ask about some random ethnic neighborhood. If you were a non-Jewish female would you be comfortable living alone in a heavily Hasidic neighborhood? As Rue explained earlier, it's not much of a picnic.

I'm sure it isn't.

[kimmy]

All I know is that Jesus didn't make his captives taken in war lift their arms to expose any tell tale underarm hair. If you were male and had just one...slit/chop/hack.

Oh sure, but go through the OT and see how THOSE GUYS treated captives.

-k

[kimmy]

I'm sure it isn't.

So that's a "no"?

-k

[DogOnPorch]

Oh sure, but go through the OT and see how THOSE GUYS treated captives.

-k

But the OT is the OT...not Jesus's ministry.

"Go and do thou likewise" was his message. One even an Islamophobic bigoted atheist can get behind.

[Black Dog]

Our political system is such that groups have influence proportionate to both their numbers, and how determined they are to affect change.

While Muslim numbers remain low their influence on the political system is similarly low, but their numbers have doubled every ten years since 1971, and there is no sign of that slowing, between natural birth and continuing immigration. We are seeing Muslims in government now, and we will see more in future, and if their belief system is similar to that in the middle east our system will begin to shift to accommodate that too.

Dunno why I can't read this without thinking of this.

Then again, I can see such fears being justified by looking at France with its huge Muslim population and how they've managed to influence government policy on the headscarf, for example...oh wait.

[Argus]

Of course, no one is asking you to do that. In Canada, in Toronto, we have pretty close to the highest concentration of various (maligned) groups that you're going to find anywhere in the world. There aren't many (if any) places that I would be scared to go there.

Walk down around Jane/Finch at midnight tonight, then.

[On Guard for Thee]

Why don't you address the topic instead of trying to come up with acceptable insults to address the person discussing the topic?

If you'd followed the thread you'd have seen that addressing the topic was what I was doing.

[Argus]

The thing that the progressives don't seem to grasp, probably because progressives aren't much into thinking complicated thoughts, is that it doesn't matter if you think the worst is going to happen, or even likely to happen. All that matters is that immigrants from particular parts of the world are less likely to integrate, more likely to have extremist social and religious views, and less likely to be economically successful than immigrants from other areas. That's really all there is to it. We owe foreigners precisely NOTHING. The only purpose of having this tremendously expensive immigration system is to benefit Canada. If immigrants from one region benefit Canada more than immigrants from another region then that's the argument. Case closed.

[Argus]

If you'd followed the thread you'd have seen that addressing the topic was what I was doing.

I suppose, in a sense, given the point of the topic was to insult those who are rational thinking people, not hopelessly ignorant progressive dreamers with no grounding in reality.

[On Guard for Thee]

There are lots of other cars available. Knowing the pintos might blow up if rear ended, you would almost certainly choose another model. Similarly, knowing that Muslims, esp from a certain geographical area, not only might have be extremists but also that they statistically perform very poorly in economic terms, why would it not make sense to discourage immigration from that area and select more from another area?

You're working this Pinto thing into the ground, don't you think?

[Argus]

You're working this Pinto thing into the ground, don't you think?

When dealing with progressives, it's important to keep the message simple and short.