Islamophobia in Canada

[Shady]

I love watching lefties tie themselves into pretzels defending large scale assault and misogyny.

[scribblet]

As a female I’m disappointed at western people who try to whitewash and cover up what is happening. With a possible millions more attempting to migrate in the near future, it sure doesn’t bode well for European females.

It’s been quite clear that large numbers of these male migrants who make up the majority (71%) invading Europe, are assaulting women, now women can’t go swimming apparently for fear of being assaulted. These assaults and attacks are not a one off, they are happening frequently in various countries but not reported as there has been an admitted cover up.

Even now we have an incident were two young male migrants were apprehended when they stoned two transgender women calling them ‘whores who must be stoned’.

One of the larger issues here is that of the cover up and not just by Germany. Covering up the situation and attempting to lessen or whitewash what is happening just enables and encourages the migrants to continue with this whole new dimension of crime.

The EU’s quota system rehouse migrants has failed according to Juncker, the president of the EC who has blamed “arrogant” refugees for the failure of his re-housing policy.

How much are we prepared to tolerate in the name of diversity and ‘cultural relativity’, how much should women have to tolerate or be expected to change to appease ‘migrant sensitiveness’?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12095984/Muslim-men-considered-us-to-be-whores.html
"If liberal Europe wants to continue with the current level of Muslim immigration it needs to have an urgent debate about how much cultural relativity it is prepared to tolerate

[dialamah]

Turns out the men in the mall were taking pictures because two of them have a vision impairment, they were here for treatment and were taking pictures of everything they could as mementos of their trip. They're not upset at being thought 'suspicious', they get that, but they are afraid to leave their hotel room because the pics were leaked and they're smart enough to know that vigilante types might decide to take some kind of action against them.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-mall-video-men-1.3406619

[DogOnPorch]

It's also been explained how racism leads to more charges and convictions against certain types of people and that countries like Sweden define rape incidents far differently from other nations, but I mean those things don't jive with people's ethnocentric and often times bigoted biases. You know, just like people ignore Muslim nations having had female leaders, unlike good ol' USA or even Canada where we've yet to elect one. Recognizing these things just gets in the way of all the biased thinking here. You can see it when people are surprised that refugees have cellphones: "Like, omg, what do you mean they're not goat herders living in shacks?"

This I've heard a lot over the last few weeks as if it was some sort of defense. What changes in Sweden's rape laws make it a factor in excusing certain rapists? What exactly?

[waldo]

Your efforts to dimish the incident in Germany are obvious and transparent, as is usual, and common from anyone or your side of any argument you do it in a dishonest, back handed fashion, You recieved a factual response and now because your personal bias can't allow you to accept that reality you have turned to the insults and xenophobia card, well color me all impressed, i haven't seen that before, here, on this forum, ever. Im not supposed to notice or comment on it, but w/e.

ya ya... framing a discussion with actual related data - dataBeDiminishing! And, to you, my being direct and attempting to provide clarity/perspective, that has you claiming I'm, "dishonest and back handed"! I most certainly didn't insult anyone here... unless you consider data/stats to be a insult to your apparent penchant for aligning with sweeping unsubstantiated rapeRunningRampant declarations.

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A mass, attack on women, performed seemingly by an identifiable group, and in spite of actual evidence to support the reports, we have to equivocate, pretend it must have been something else, and in no way question the moral grounding of the people who would do this, or of others that share the same beliefs. Im convinced.

says you: the guy so seemingly flummoxed over seeing pictures of refugees with smartphones! Oh my!

as I said, relative to 2015's 1.1 million migrant registrations in Germany, you're quite uncomfortable with someone providing a degree of clarity and perspective to your "mass" declaration. Clearly, you take that as a personal affront to your predilection - of course you do! The "moral ground questioning of the people" you speak to... which people? Those involved in the incident - or your preferred and targeted indict of the entire migrant population?

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[waldo]

I think what we are seeing is a mass conspiracy by European women to vilify Muslim men.

I think what we are seeing here, in this thread, is a most direct anonymity fueled attempt to leverage criminal incidents that allow for broad-brushed and sweeping vilification of an entire migrant population. #economiesOfScale

[DogOnPorch]

I think what we are seeing here, in this thread, is a most direct anonymity fueled attempt to leverage criminal incidents that allow for broad-brushed and sweeping vilification of an entire migrant population. #economiesOfScale

I've never been afraid to stand-up and say clearly: Islam sucks!

Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a migrant and I rather fancy her style.

[waldo]

I've never been afraid to stand-up and say clearly: Islam sucks!

Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a migrant and I rather fancy her style

yup! Be loudAndProud - clearly you're leading the charge within this Islamophobia focused thread. Sorry to lay down a few inconvenient ripples for you. I'm also shocked that you would favour an avowed atheist calling for a reformation of Islam. Shocked I tells ya, shocked!

[DogOnPorch]

yup! Be loudAndProud - clearly you're leading the charge within this Islamophobia focused thread. Sorry to lay down a few inconvenient ripples for you. I'm also shocked that you would favour an avowed atheist calling for a reformation of Islam. Shocked I tells ya, shocked!

I've been leading the charge against Islam since learning my disturbing family history. Well before encountering the likes of yourself. But, I notice personal attacks are all you have...so I don't worry.

[Shady]

I've been leading the charge against Islam since learning my disturbing family history. Well before encountering the likes of yourself. But, I notice personal attacks are all you have...so I don't worry.

It's sad because it's people of his ilk that are the biggest enablers, and help prohibit change.

[kimmy]

if I purposely state, "no intent to diminish", there was no intent to diminish; rather, an attempt was made to provide some semblance of actual numbers to match the unsubstantiated phobeConcern here. The focus of discussion was Germany - is your "argument/position" so weak you feel a need to creep the scope... while providing no actual numbers in doing so - nice! I provided a clear numbers delineation for the much profiled city of Cologne; one with the threads focus on migrants/refugees. Apparently, attempting to bring clarity was too much for you.

your statement prompted me to search further based on your own words: I find a more complete/detailed and updated accounting (from my own prior reference) of that 31 suspect reference... this reference per a January 10th update:

You said "no intent to diminish", then spent the rest of your message trying to diminish what happened. "Just 31 suspects! Just two rapes! Just 100 victims!" .

If 100 complaints was the most recent information you could find, you clearly didn't look very hard. Current tally is about 670, of which over half involve sex attacks.

I also believe people people pointing out that just 18 of the 31 are asylum seekers are attempting to downplay the Middle East/North African aspect of what happened. It's deceit by omission-- there's an implication that the other 13 must have been just typical Germans. But not all North Africans and Middle Easterners in Germany are asylum seekers, and as the actual numbers point out, 27 of the 31 are from countries that fit that description.

And while Cologne is the largest such debacle, similar incidents occurred in other German cities as well-- Stuttgart, Dusseldorf, Hamburg, Berlin-- as well as other cities outside Germany-- Salzburg Austria, Helsinki, and Kalmar Sweden at the very least. Information about all of those is readily available on the Google if you are in doubt.

so... I attempt to provide some degree of perspective on the expressed related phobia here... where no actual numbers are provided yet the word rapeRunsRampant throughout... in relation to the over 1 million 2015 migrant registrations and you actually have the temerity to state, "It's certainly fortunate that not all 1.1 million refugees were at the Cologne train station, though." Your clear phobia runs strong, runs deep!

I just think it's funny that you're trying to make a case for them by saying that of the 1 million migrants, just 0.1% of them were in that particular mob in that particular city on that particular night. I'm sure that will put women at ease!

-k

[waldo]

I've been leading the charge against Islam since learning my disturbing family history. Well before encountering the likes of yourself. But, I notice personal attacks are all you have...so I don't worry.

where's the personal attack? Is stating you're 'leading the charge' here... a personal attack? Are you not a most prolific poster in this thread... are you not the leading prolific poster in this thread? That's an attack? And you're the guy who just wrote, "I've never been afraid to stand-up and say clearly: Islam sucks!". Have I misinterpreted your position?

[DogOnPorch]

where's the personal attack? Is stating you're 'leading the charge' here... a personal attack? Are you not a most prolific poster in this thread... are you not the leading prolific poster in this thread? That's an attack? And you're the guy who just wrote, "I've never been afraid to stand-up and say clearly: Islam sucks!". Have I misinterpreted your position?

The point being...nearly 700 sexual assaults have been reported, but to you, I'm the problem.

[kimmy]

It's pretty well established that crime in general is taken more seriously when it's done by visible minorities and even reported differently in the news. I could provide you an entire literature review worth of work on it, but it's so commonly accepted amongst criminologists that I'm sure you can find plenty of articles on your own.

er, actually what we saw was that German police and German media at first tried to hide what happened on New Year's Eve, worried that there would be a backlash against migrants. I pointed out that Swedish police were last week also caught in a cover-up of mass sexual assaults at a Stockholm music festival.

"Some times we do not really say how things are because we believe it may play into the hands of the Sweden Democrats," Ågren told Dagens Nyheter, referring to the anti-immigration party in Parliament.

While I'm sure that you have a bunch of information relating to how crimes committed by black people are reported in American media, I don't think it's applicable to the current situation in Europe where authorities are going all-out to hide the extent of criminality among migrants.

-k

[waldo]

You said "no intent to diminish", then spent the rest of your message trying to diminish what happened. "Just 31 suspects! Just two rapes! Just 100 victims!" .

why would you interpret providing reference data as an attempt to diminish impact? Up to that point there's nothing but broad-brush sweeping declarations being made here. Why are you uncomfortable with an attempt to frame the extent of criminality relative to the entire migrant numbers?

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If 100 complaints was the most recent information you could find, you clearly didn't look very hard. Current tally is about 670, of which over half involve sex attacks.

and somehow you didn't manage to initially provide those numbers... I bow to your googlyAfterTheFact prowess! It's too bad that you didn't initially look, as you say, "very hard"!

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I also believe people people pointing out that just 18 of the 31 are asylum seekers are attempting to downplay the Middle East/North African aspect of what happened. It's deceit by omission-- there's an implication that the other 13 must have been just typical Germans. But not all North Africans and Middle Easterners in Germany are asylum seekers, and as the actual numbers point out, 27 of the 31 are from countries that fit that description.

"deceit by omission"! Really? And what do you label everything prior that had absolute reliance on no data, on nothing more than sweeping vilification of all peoples? What do you label that?

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I just think it's funny that you're trying to make a case for them by saying that of the 1 million migrants, just 0.1% of them were in that particular mob in that particular city on that particular night. I'm sure that will put women at ease!

"making a case for them"! Really? Is that the "case" reference? Really? Not the million+ of 2015 migrants not engaged in criminality... not them?

.

[waldo]

The point being...nearly 700 sexual assaults have been reported, but to you, I'm the problem.

why is pointing out your prolific posting in this thread... "a problem"... to you? Frame that criminality (by numbers) relative to the total 1.1 million 2015 migrant registration numbers. If you (and apparently MLW member 'kimmy') feel that is an attempt to "diminish" criminality, it most certainly is not. It's called referencing and providing a correlated perspective... and is, apparently, something you are most uncomfortable with.

[dialamah]

Yes, I believe we just went over that. A white guy who has sex with somebody under 15 is a pedophile, but a non-white person who has sex with somebody under 15 isn't.

Pedophilia is defined as someone having sexual urges toward a prepubescent person, upper age usually considered to be 11 years old. Pedophilia doesn't refer to having sex with underage people. Countries have different legal ages of consent, very few legally allow sex with kids under the age of 15; even Canada allowed 14 year olds to have sex with adults until 2008. http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/other-autre/clp/faq.html

By your definition, then, Canada was peopled with pedophiles, and these pedophiles were legally sanctioned until 2008.

It's true that there is a movement around the world to reduce 'child-brides' which I think is a good thing. But if the definition of 'child-bride' is anyone under 18, then in Canada, we legally sanction 'child-brides' because we do allow people under 18 to marry, as long as they have parental consent.

What makes you think I'm so accepting of sex crime committed by white people?

What makes people so accepting of mass sexual assaults committed by non-white people?

-k

Because pointing out that 'this kind of (insert bad thing of your choice) happens everywhere, not just with (group of your choice)' has an automatic response of "oh, so you support that 'bad thing' happening!" As you can see when it's turned around, it's a ludicrous argument.

Pedophiles exist around the world; pointing that there are white pedophiles does not mean one is excusing Muslim or other non-white ones. Pointing out that white Canadians are also violent does not mean one supports, forgives or accepts violence from any other group.

But I suppose when one is operating on fear/loathing rather than thinking, it's easier to say "so you support terrorism and misogyny and sexual assaults against women' when it's pointed out that humans of any color, religion and ethnic group have bad people among them.

If we applied the same reasoning against white guys Canada as some are using to object to Muslim refugees, all the white guys in this country ought to be in jail already. (Sorry innocent white guys, but those child rapists you despise as much as we do - you might be just like them so off to jail you go.)

Edited January 16, 2016 by dialamah

[DogOnPorch]

why is pointing out your prolific posting in this thread...

You can always try to get those blasphemy laws Canada has on its books enforced to shut fellows like myself up. Until then...

[kimmy]

why would you interpret providing reference data as an attempt to diminish impact? Up to that point there's nothing but broad-brush sweeping declarations being made here. Why are you uncomfortable with an attempt to frame the extent of criminality relative to the entire migrant numbers?

That's the whole gist of your argument, is it not? "Why are people making such a big deal about this? Why, it was hardly anything! People are making a mountain out of a mole-hill!"

and somehow you didn't manage to initially provide those numbers... I bow to your googlyAfterTheFact prowess! It's too bad that you didn't initially look, as you say, "very hard"!

I initially provided the figure 500, which you disputed with your link to "the latest figures". I stopped keeping track after it hit 500. What's your excuse? Surely somebody who had really intended to find the latest information could have come up with something better than a number that was exceeded within just the first 2 days of complainants coming forward.

"deceit by omission"! Really? And what do you label everything prior that had absolute reliance on no data, on nothing more than sweeping vilification of all peoples? What do you label that?.

I think that when people speak of 18 out of 31 being asylum seekers they are making an intentional attempt to mislead, to draw attention away from the actual portion of those suspects that fit the description "Arab/North African", which was 27 of 31, not 18 of 31.

I'm sure that if you see others making claims you believe are misleading you'll not be shy about pointing that out as well.

"making a case for them"! Really? Is that the "case" reference? Really? Not the million+ of 2015 migrants not engaged in criminality... not them?

Pointing out that just 0.1% of 2015 migrants were at one particular crime scene does not support the conclusion that the remaining 99.9% are not engaged in criminality.

-k

[waldo]

You can always try to get those blasphemy laws Canada has on its books enforced to shut fellows like myself up. Until then...

I just suggested you be loudAndProud! Who wants to "shut you up" - showcasing your position is perfect. It's what this thread is all about. Good on ya.

[DogOnPorch]

I just suggested you be loudAndProud! Who wants to "shut you up" - showcasing your position is perfect. It's what this thread is all about. Good on ya.

As mentioned...all you have are personal attacks...so I'm not worried.

[waldo]

That's the whole gist of your argument, is it not? "Why are people making such a big deal about this? Why, it was hardly anything! People are making a mountain out of a mole-hill!"

it is not... no matter how hard you portray it that way, no matter how hard you 'want it to be that way'!

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Pointing out that just 0.1% of 2015 migrants were not at one particular crime scene does not support the conclusion that the remaining 99.9% are not engaged in criminality.

somehow you managed to ignore my question. You labeled by post, my initial numbers as "deceit by omission". I asked you to provide a label for everything previously stated that had no reliance on any numbers to any degree/level... what kind of, as you say, "deceit" was that, hey MLW member 'kimmy'?

I offered no such conclusion as you're now portraying I did. I most certainly could flip that on you and suggest that because 99.9% of 2015 migrants were not at particular crime scenes, that does not afford you the liberty to position and make sweeping assessments and statements as if they were! How do you like those apples?

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[waldo]

As mentioned...all you have are personal attacks...so I'm not worried.

I'm most certainly not attacking you personally. Perhaps rather than continuing to state this, you could provide clarity, provide an understanding as to what you interpret as personnel attack.

[dialamah]

"making a case for them"! Really? Is that the "case" reference? Really? Not the million+ of 2015 migrants not engaged in criminality... not them?

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35 million people in Canada; based on stats, a potential 1.5 active terrorists among 25,000 refugees.

Take 35 million litres of plain water and take a drink. Now add 1.5 litres of salted water, and have another drink. Any change in taste?

40 (estimated) attackers among the 1 million plus refugees is equal to about 1.25 people within our 25,000 refugees.

Now add another 1.25 litres of salted water to your 35 million litres of plain water; take another drink and see if there's any change in taste.

Among the 25,000 refugees coming to Canada, less than 3 of them MIGHT be inclined to terrorism and other criminal activities.

If it were a statistical fact that MOST or even HALF or heck, even a QUARTER of the 25,000 refugees were likely or even potentially to be criminally active, then there might be some reason for the hysteria about people from the Middle East coming to Canada. But worrying this much about potentially TWO people? Makes no sense to me.

(For Argus: yes, yes, misogynistic attitudes imported, big worry for you. As a woman, I can tell you there is already plenty of misogyny in Canada, adding a bit more isn't going to make any difference in our culture, or in our continued efforts toward eliminating that here. We're more likely to influence them to our beliefs, rather then have them influence us. Especially the women and the upcoming generation, and this can also filter back to their countries of origin).

Edited January 16, 2016 by dialamah

[kimmy]

it is not... no matter how hard you portray it that way, no matter how hard you 'want it to be that way'!

Your argument-- you're just trying to put it in context!-- has been that what happened in Cologne is being overblown by anti-immigrant people who are trying to make it seem like a big deal.

The number of people involved in the Cologne mob as a portion of the overall number of refugees isn't particularly important... what's important is that the number of refugees in Germany has risen to a point that a mob estimated by police as "in the thousands" formed with the result that sexual assaults numbering in the hundreds occurred while police watched, powerless to intervene, and that the Mayor of Cologne says that women need to adopt a "code of conduct" for their own safety.

somehow you managed to ignore my question. You labeled by post, my initial numbers as "deceit by omission". I asked you to provide a label for everything previously stated that had no reliance on any numbers to any degree/level... what kind of, as you say, "deceit" was that, hey MLW member 'kimmy'?

I've made a number of uncited claims in this thread, but I know that I can provide verification for what I've written. I didn't feel any need to provide links to support my claim of similar incidents in other German cities, but if anybody wants to dispute that claim, I know I can easily go find links to support it. If there are any specific claims you'd like me to provide cites for, I can do so if you wish.

I think that making an uncited claim to easily verifiable information is quite different from posting out-of-date or incomplete information in an effort to present a misleading argument.

I offered no such conclusion as you're now portraying I did. I most certainly could flip that on you and suggest that because 99.9% of 2015 migrants were not at particular crime scenes, that does not afford you the liberty to position and make sweeping assessments and statements as if they were! How do you like those apples?

Did you not just claim that 1 million+ of the refugees were not engaged in criminality?

-k