Smallc Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 Please. All you have done is point me to an article without providing quotes for your argument. Plenty of arguments exist in that article that confirms we need to do a full frontal assault to protect innocent civilians. And then what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) And then what?I don't know. I don't have the smarts for that and neither does anyone here. Edited November 18, 2015 by WestCoastRunner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) Nothing I have read or heard so far has convinced me to completely disengage. One argument for that is that there's a big correlation between a non-Muslim country's presence in the region (especially militarily), in Sunni areas specifically, and whether they're being targeted by attacks on their own soil from jihadists. There's a reason there's never been any jihadist attacks in Mexico or Japan...why would jihadists bother? Now, there is a humanitarian component for us being engaged there, even though there's terrible things happening all over the developing world, especially Asia and Africa, that we haven't lifted much of a finger about, or hardly put on the evening news. On the other hand, our intervention seems to be making the humanitarian situation terribly worse everywhere we go. The US/UK was going to "liberate Iraqis", remember? But if we disengage, we have to consider 1. losing influence in a region where the price/access of oil can be used to economically extort us if we don't militarily control the region (ie: Russia or China could fill the power vacuum we leave), 2. leaving ISIS and jihadists to the region to take care of, which might not work, and 3. oil and defense/arms contractors in North America would lose a lot of money and jobs from reduction in business, which is kinda evil but it still affects our economy. Edited November 18, 2015 by Moonlight Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 We already have soldiers participating in training local allied troops. As I understand, he wants to increase Canadian boots on the ground...for training of course, not combat. But which is more dangerous for our military? Dropping bombs from jets or running for cover on the ground when ISIS fighters attack their compounds? In case you haven't been paying attention, I think funnelling weapons into the region is a crime against humanity that should be stopped so sending people in to use those weapons isn't exactly something I'm prepared to support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 I don't know. I don't have the smarts for that and neither does anyone here. So why are you so hell bent, then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) The only rational course of action over there is to let the region be partitioned. We could maybe give some minor covert aid to factions that we want to support but no need for anything beyond that. None of this meddling has worked for 5 decades. Its not like its going to start now. Edited November 18, 2015 by dre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) The only rational course of action over there is to let the region be partitioned. We could maybe give some minor covert aid to factions that we want to support but no need for anything beyond that. None of this meddling has worked for 5 decades. Its not like its going to start now. I do love the idea of providing support to factions.And providing humanitarian aid , not just military. We need schools etc. how do we do that? Edited November 18, 2015 by WestCoastRunner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 Signs that some intelligent thought is buried in all of the military madness. Bombs will not solve anything. Neither will saying told you so however much it needs to be repeated. A fart of wisdom in a Category 5 hurricane of stupidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 So why are you so hell bent, then?I'm sorry. Not sure what you are asking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 I'm sorry. Not sure what you are asking? You want us to attack them full force. There's no evidence that such a plan will work against a foe such as ISIS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 You want us to attack them full force. There's no evidence that such a plan will work against a foe such as ISIS. Ok so that's my point exactly. No one knows. Wtf are we doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 Ok so that's my point exactly. No one knows. Wtf are we doing. Well why are you so sure that we're doing the wrong thing by pulling out our fighters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) Well why are you so sure that we're doing the wrong thing by pulling out our fighters? I'm not sure. I just have the balls to question it Why is it wrong? I'm just like the rest of us. I want to defeat ISIS but I don't want to chicken out. Edited November 18, 2015 by WestCoastRunner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 I do love the idea of providing support to factions. And providing humanitarian aid , not just military. We need schools etc. how do we do that? It'll have to go a long way farther and deeper than that. We need to commission the Mother of All Truth and Reconciliation Processes and negotiate the biggest reparations settlement in the history of the known Universe. It will require an act of political summitry that will not be possible until the emergence of some Messiah-like figure with the ability to lead humanity to some sort of Kumbaya Singularity, for lack of a better term. I'm afraid there still just hasn't been enough pain in the world for what needs to be done to sink in yet. It's a terrible thing to have to ponder what that means but...it is what it is. I think it'll have to be the pain of watching what happens as a result of leaving a failed region to it's own devices. The path to enlightenment is unfortunately mostly painful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 It'll have to go a long way farther and deeper than that. We need to commission the Mother of All Truth and Reconciliation Processes and negotiate the biggest reparations settlement in the history of the known Universe. It will require an act of political summitry that will not be possible until the emergence of some Messiah-like figure with the ability to lead humanity to some sort of Kumbaya Singularity, for lack of a better term. I'm afraid there still just hasn't been enough pain in the world for what needs to be done to sink in yet. It's a terrible thing to have to ponder what that means but...it is what it is. I think it'll have to be the pain of watching what happens as a result of leaving a failed region to it's own devices. The path to enlightenment is unfortunately mostly painful. I need to contemplate this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 I'm not sure. I just have the balls to question it Why is it wrong? I'm just like the rest of us. I want to defeat ISIS but I don't want to chicken out. We'll be sending people into a more dangerous situation by upping our ground game. I think we should keep doing everything, personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) I'm not sure. I just have the balls to question it Why is it wrong? I'm just like the rest of us. I want to defeat ISIS but I don't want to chicken out. If you have a cockroach infestation, you can't kill the cockroaches by hammering away at every location you think these cockroaches are hiding. To hurt ISIS and make it irrelevant, the West needs to do the following: 1) Choke their finances by using your powers against their funders; Saudi and Qatar - Give them an ultimatum and sanction them if they don't choose to stop 2) So far, all of the attackers in Paris have ended up being French and Belgium Nationals, meaning that you need to connect with the disconnected local Muslim communities. Don't marginalize Muslims even more and reach out to their communities and let them know that we know that they are as much their enemies as they are everyone else's. That you understand that the 10 or however many who did this, do not represent the 4.6 million Muslims in France or any other Muslims 3) Get the fuck out of the Middle East and Africa and give up our addiction on wars. Don't allow the military industry complex to dictate our foreign policy Edited November 18, 2015 by marcus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) Speaking of Africa - the French were hinting today in wanting our help in Mali. Edited November 18, 2015 by Smallc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 Heavy gunfire and explosions in Paris right now as swat team has somebody cornered in an apartment. Police injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 Heavy gunfire and explosions in Paris right now as swat team has somebody cornered in an apartment. Police injured. Apparently, a women with an explosive vest detonated. Police snipers took out another individual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 I just read an article that stats to defeat ISIS, certain countries should be helping like Russia and the leader of Syria may have to step down, so the fight would includes the rebels fighting in Syria. IF leaders of those countries can get their act together then ISIS can be beaten, but they need to talk to one another and forget the past and get on with the future of no more ISIS. http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/envisioning-how-global-powers-can-smash-isis/ar-BBn92PL?ocid=spartandhp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 You want us to attack them full force. There's no evidence that such a plan will work against a foe such as ISIS. A military campaign against ISIL won't solve the global terrorist problem or the problem of Islamic extremism, but it would deal with the specific threat of ISIL to the region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 A military campaign against ISIL won't solve the global terrorist problem or the problem of Islamic extremism, but it would deal with the specific threat of ISIL to the region. For a short timer perhaps. Recent history seems to show that it won't last long though, unless we're willing to stay there, ala Japan, Korea and Germany. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 For a short timer perhaps. Recent history seems to show that it won't last long though, unless we're willing to stay there, ala Japan, Korea and Germany. I'm also, to add to that, not clear how that does anything for France, other than revenge (which can be important and powerful on its own). I'm a hawk and not a dove as most people know by my posts here. This problem though - a military solution is very short lived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 So the nerds of Anonymous have apparently taken down over 5000 Twitter accounts belonging to ISIS members and sympathizers. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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