Trudeau's Committment to Syrian Refugees - 25,000 by Year End

[Hal 9000]

WoW, Is it true that they become permanent resident upon arrival? I must not be reading that right.

[cloutier]

WoW, Is it true that they become permanent resident upon arrival? I must not be reading that right.

Yes, it is true. And each family can get up to $2000 each month until land a job..

[Hal 9000]

Yes, it is true. And each family can get up to $2000 each month until land a job..

Wow, I know a mexican with a great job that has been fighting to stay here for 2 years and another guy who has a russian wife who've been trying to get her here for 1.5 years - with no luck yet.

[cloutier]

Wow, I know a mexican with a great job that has been fighting to stay here for 2 years and another guy who has a russian wife who've been trying to get her here for 1.5 years - with no luck yet.

I know, it is kind of sad and it is not that fair to those people that Canada really needs to keep.

[Hal 9000]

I wonder if the gov't will tell us how many they turned away - if any.

[marcus]

In case anyone wants to know what the screening process is like:

How security screening works

Refugees who may be eligible for resettlement are first identified by the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), primarily on the basis of their vulnerability. International refugee law is clear that those responsible for serious criminal and terrorist acts will not benefit from refugee protection.

Given the limited number of refugees developed countries are willing to settle, only one to two per cent of individuals registered with the UNHCR get referred into the potential resettlement pool despite tens of thousands more who would qualify.* Anyone with a hint of criminal or terrorism connections is simply not placed into the pool for further assessment; priority is given to the most vulnerable.

Next, a UNHCR officer conducts a file analysis. Officers in the Beirut UNHCR office are exceptionally knowledgeable about the events in Syria, the various factions and the timeline of the conflict. This allows for a robust credibility assessment of the facts alleged by the individual. At this point, anyone who the officer identifies as having security or criminal concerns would again be filtered out.

If a file progresses onwards, in general, a UNHCR officer is then tasked with conducting a "refugee status determination." This includes an interview where the truth of their allegations and their background is fulsomely assessed.

If facts related to criminality or terrorism come to light after the interview, the UNCHR also has a process for cancelling refugee status.

If an individual passes this assessment, the UNHCR can refer the file to a Canadian visa officer who will again interview the person. In each case, the visa officer will assess whether the person meets the definition of a refugee.

The individual is then screened for "admissibility" to Canada. Medical and criminal screening is mandatory. A security review involves, at a minimum, the coordination of Canada Border Services Agency, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the Canadian Security Intelligence Service. Information is often sought from third party states, international organizations and searches conducted in international databases.

More

[dialamah]

Is there any publication that you'll believe, because I'm pretty sure your intent will be to rip the article's origin?

Well, that's a fair question I guess. So, I thought I'd look for a credible source that provided any kind of estimate of 'potential' terrorists among Muslims- seriously thought I might, although I fully expected it to be a lot less than 15-20%. As it happens, I couldn't find anything.

Then I thought - why not compare the number of Daesh compared to the entire Muslim population: that's at least got the advantage of using 'real' numbers instead of guesses, eh? But, there's very little information on how many there are. CIA thinks Daesh has around 20,000 fighters;another 'expert' says 70,000 and someone else says 200,000. But for our little thought experiment here, let's go with worst case scenario of 200,000.

There are 1,600,000,000 Muslims in the world. So the incidence of actual Daesh in the Muslim population is .0125%. That's a lot less than 15%, and I don't think 'potential' terrorists are going to be found at a higher rate than 'actual' terrorists in a given group, at least not by a factor of 15.

But, just so you don't feel too disappointed that less than 1% of all Muslims are actually Daesh, I've found this site for you: it's pretty credible, imo, and it provides some information on percentage of Muslims who support Sharia law in some form (99% in Afghanistan), or who supported Al Queda. Shouldn't be too difficult for you to find something to worry about in these figures. Perhaps it will be that Americans are more likely than Muslims to say that military actions targeting civilians can be justified.

[dialamah]

Yes, it is true. And each family can get up to $2000 each month until land a job..

Refugees get the same welfare rates as Canadians for a period of one year, and they are expected to repay their transportation and medical exam costs. Refugees that are sponsored get no government help.

From http://ccrweb.ca/en/refugees-and-income-assistance-rebutting-chain-email-pensioners-myth

The true picture is that:

• Refugee claimants and refugees recognized by the Immigration and Refugee Board receive no special income assistance. They may, depending on provincial regulations, be entitled, like other residents, to social assistance.
• Privately sponsored refugees are not entitled to government assistance (including provincial assistance) during the period of their sponsorship (usually for one year after arrival in Canada). Their income support must be provided by their sponsors.
• Government assisted refugees have access to financial assistance from the federal government through the Resettlement Assistance Program (RAP). This financial assistance is generally for one year maximum and is received only if they do not have their own financial resources or income. The exact rate depends on the size of the family and is tied to social assistance rates. In Ontario in July 2013, for example, a single person receives $781 per month. In addition, government-assisted refugees are entitled to a one-time set up allowance, to cover such things as clothes, basic household effects and staples, and telephone installation. For a single person there is a maximum one-time allowance of $905, plus a $564 loan for house rental and telephone line deposits.

Most resettled refugees arrive in Canada with a significant debt burden, since they are expected to repay the Canadian government for their transportation to Canada as well as the cost of their medical examination undertaken as part of their processing to come to Canada. Refugee families therefore often begin life in Canada with a debt running to thousands of dollars. Interest is charged on this loan at a rate set by the Department of Finance each year.

[cloutier]

Refugees get the same welfare rates as Canadians for a period of one year, and they are expected to repay their transportation and medical exam costs. Refugees that are sponsored get no government help.

.

I can only find the French version of the report. It has a detailed table outlines the supplements and did mention that it will start from the first year and stops when employed...

http://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/Politique/2015/11/17/002-accueil-refugies-syriens-organismes-sommes-supplementaires-ottawa.shtml

[dialamah]

I can only find the French version of the report. It has a detailed table outlines the supplements and did mention that it will start from the first year and stops when employed...

http://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/Politique/2015/11/17/002-accueil-refugies-syriens-organismes-sommes-supplementaires-ottawa.shtml

Perhaps the Quebec welfare system is different? The government document says that rates are based on provinces.

[Hal 9000]

Refugees get the same welfare rates as Canadians for a period of one year, and they are expected to repay their transportation and medical exam costs. Refugees that are sponsored get no government help.

From http://ccrweb.ca/en/refugees-and-income-assistance-rebutting-chain-email-pensioners-myth

The true picture is that:

• Refugee claimants and refugees recognized by the Immigration and Refugee Board receive no special income assistance. They may, depending on provincial regulations, be entitled, like other residents, to social assistance.
• Privately sponsored refugees are not entitled to government assistance (including provincial assistance) during the period of their sponsorship (usually for one year after arrival in Canada). Their income support must be provided by their sponsors.
• Government assisted refugees have access to financial assistance from the federal government through the Resettlement Assistance Program (RAP). This financial assistance is generally for one year maximum and is received only if they do not have their own financial resources or income. The exact rate depends on the size of the family and is tied to social assistance rates. In Ontario in July 2013, for example, a single person receives $781 per month. In addition, government-assisted refugees are entitled to a one-time set up allowance, to cover such things as clothes, basic household effects and staples, and telephone installation. For a single person there is a maximum one-time allowance of $905, plus a $564 loan for house rental and telephone line deposits.

Most resettled refugees arrive in Canada with a significant debt burden, since they are expected to repay the Canadian government for their transportation to Canada as well as the cost of their medical examination undertaken as part of their processing to come to Canada. Refugee families therefore often begin life in Canada with a debt running to thousands of dollars. Interest is charged on this loan at a rate set by the Department of Finance each year.

Normally that might be the case, but the minute these people arrive and are signed in, they are gonna be Canadians. As Canadians, they'll get welfare until the day the die if they choose and they won't be made to repay anything because they will be full on Canadians.

I could be wrong, but if they do in fact become full on Canadians, there will be no requirement to do anything or be accountable for anything.

[Peter F]

I could be wrong, but if they do in fact become full on Canadians, there will be no requirement to do anything or be accountable for anything.

Just like all Canadians then. Thats a good thing that if they become Canadians they get all the things that other Canadians get....even full on Canadians, or perhaps non-full on Canadians maybe.

[Smoke]

Someone earlier asked why rushing in 25,000 Syrian refugees was a reckless move. Please see linked video for commentary from a lawyer that deals with refugees and immigration.

[dialamah]

Normally that might be the case, but the minute these people arrive and are signed in, they are gonna be Canadians. As Canadians, they'll get welfare until the day the die if they choose and they won't be made to repay anything because they will be full on Canadians.

I could be wrong, but if they do in fact become full on Canadians, there will be no requirement to do anything or be accountable for anything.

Permanent residents are not "full-on Canadians", they still have to apply for Canadian citizenship. It's not unusual that these refugees are provided PR status so quickly, that seems to be how the process works for refugees who are resettled from elsewhere. I very much doubt that the Canadian government forgives the debt merely on refugees acquiring citizenship.http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/newcomers/about-pr.asp Edited November 20, 2015 by dialamah

[Big Guy]

Those 25,000 have already been vetted - will start arriving in two weeks.

We live in a small town in Southern Ontario with a permanent population of less than 10,000. During growing and harvesting season, the population explodes with thousands of off shore temporary workers. They are now beginning to trickle home and many living spaces are again vacant.

A local organization of different churches and religions has collected about $70,000 to a resettlement program for refugees. We have been told that 3 families are on their way. I am proud of how generous Canadians can be. What a wonderful place to live!

BTW - I wonder what the vetting process is for the approx. 500,000 temporary foreign workers who come into Canada every year?

[Cherrytwo]

Trudeau's promise to take in refugees shows he is less interested in protecting Canada (remember the national anthem? " O Canada we stand on guard for thee"? ) than looking good to the world. Terrorists are using refugees to get into western countries and the west is too naïve to see it.

The money spent on refugees should be going to Canadians in need such as our Veterans and the homeless.

[Big Guy]

I continue to be fascinated by the security expert bright lights on this board attitude towards this latest refugee initiative:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/rcmp-csis-support-trudeaus-plan-to-resettle-25000-syrian-refugees/article27342588/

CSIS (our federal security watchdog) and the RCMP (another national organization looking after security) has assured Canadians that the process is as functional and efficient as it can be.

The heads of Canada’s police and spy agencies are backing the Trudeau government’s plans to safely screen and bring in 25,000 Syrian refugees by the end of the year.

​

​What do you folks know that these professional security agencies do not know?

Edited November 20, 2015 by Big Guy

[dialamah]

Those 25,000 have already been vetted - will start arriving in two weeks.

We live in a small town in Southern Ontario with a permanent population of less than 10,000. During growing and harvesting season, the population explodes with thousands of off shore temporary workers. They are now beginning to trickle home and many living spaces are again vacant.

A local organization of different churches and religions has collected about $70,000 to a resettlement program for refugees. We have been told that 3 families are on their way. I am proud of how generous Canadians can be. What a wonderful place to live!

BTW - I wonder what the vetting process is for the approx. 500,000 temporary foreign workers who come into Canada every year?

Making me wonder if I wouldn't like to relocate to a small town in Southern Ontario.

[Darkling]

That's a nonsensical comparison.

Not if you are a Jew, or a woman.

[Darkling]

From what I have read about the refugee process, there is no way they could do 25,000 in six weeks. If in fact 25,000 have already been vetted, they must of been done by that nasty Harper government

Maybe someone should tell the Americans how this is done since they plan to take two years to screen 10,000 Syrian refugees.

[Darkling]

Coming soon, our very own refugee camps.

I am far from certain it is legal to hold people against their will under the constitution. Fairly soon after their arrival these people will be given lawyers, and the lawyers will sue the government, demanding they be immediately released into the population. The courts are quite likely to agree with this demand.

[Derek 2.0]

Interesting story in the National Post:

The Liberal government, elected on platform that pledged to ban partisan advertising, is set to launch a $500,000 digital ad campaign to boost public support for its plan to bring in 25,000 Syrian refugees by the end of the year, according to a strategic plan document obtained by the National Post.

From the link, that I find most telling:

It highlights a number of obstacles that will need to be navigated to win over public opinion, warning that if government-sponsored refugees jump to the front of the queue ahead of privately sponsored applicants who have been waiting for a long time, it could produce a backlash.

The draft plan also expresses concerns that any refugees deemed inadmissible once they had arrived in Canada would attract “long-term negative attention.” There are further worries about the United States being critical of a perceived threat to border security; about the possibility of negative publicity if families are separated; and the bad press that might accompany refugees being housed in military installations for long periods of time.

So the Trudeau refugees get to jump ahead of those that have been in the systems for months, if not years?

Not the slightest bit surprised the Americans are concerned though.

[Hudson Jones]

If we told the black community, we were moving a shitload of people into their community and 15-20% were KKK members, would they be racist for expressing their concerns?

I have a few problems with your analogy.

25,000 people are not a shitload of people. It's a drop in the bucket. Not only that, but there is a security system involved, where they are checked at three different levels before they are admitted into the country. The system is so good that CSIC and RCMP have come out in support of the security and background check.

Also, to give you a better perspective, I am going to give you some real statistics and facts, instead of your scenario, which is based on questionable percentages: Of the 750,000 refugees admitted into the U.S. in the past 10+ years, none have been arrested on domestic terrorism charges. In Canada, there have been no refugees who were arrested on domestic terrorism charges.

Blacks have a legitimate case against the KKK. In Canada, we're not all white people who are effected or have a fear of Muslim terrorism. So you're trying to push logical fallacy.

[bush_cheney2004]

Also, to give you a better perspective, I am going to give you some real statistics and facts, instead of your scenario, which is based on questionable percentages: Of the 750,000 refugees admitted into the U.S. in the past 10+ years, none have been arrested on domestic terrorism charges.

Patently false....here is one U.S. case where a refugee was arrested and convicted on domestic terrorism charges:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/idaho-jury-convicts-uzbek-refugee-terror-charges-article-1.2323902

[Derek 2.0]

Patently false....here is one U.S. case where a refugee was arrested and convicted on domestic terrorism charges:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/idaho-jury-convicts-uzbek-refugee-terror-charges-article-1.2323902

And of course the Boston Bombers were both refugees.......